Overtraining?

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    Overtraining?


    Alright, so here's my dilemma.... I have been noticing, that as of late, some of my lifts have been dropping in weight and or intensity... I have been struggling more with weight that I used to be able to nail. It's only some exercises though. Others are still progressing. Here is a typical week's workout schedule..... All workouts are done for 4 sets of 16, 12, 8, 4 reps unless otherwise noted...

    Monday: Chest
    DB Bench
    Incline Flys (or Dec. Flys)
    DB Decline (or DB Inc.)
    Icarian Fly Machine
    Cable Crossovers (or Low Cable Cross)
    Push-ups to failure (one set of each: Flat, Dec, Inc)

    Tuesday: Shoulders
    Military Press
    Arnolds
    DB Shrugs
    DB Front Raises
    Seated DB Rear Delt. Raises
    BB Shrugs (or Behind the Back Smith Machine Shrugs)

    Wednesday: Legs
    Leg Extensions (very light weight, high reps. 4 sets ~50lbs - 30 reps)
    Leg Curls
    Seated Calf Raises
    Squats
    Leg Press
    Standing Calf Raises
    Walking DB Lunges

    Thursday: OFF

    Friday: Back
    Lat Pulldowns (behind the back)
    T-bar Rows
    Weighted Back Extensions
    Reverse Grip Pulldowns
    DB Rows
    Seated Pulley Rows

    Saturday: Arms
    Preacher Curls
    Skullcrushers
    Alternating Incline DB Curls
    Rope Pulldowns
    Forearm Curls (both ways)
    Standing DB Preacher Curls (deep stretch)
    Overhead DB Extensions

    Sunday: OFF

    That's a typical week's worth of workouts for me, not mentioning cardio... But like I said, that's a perfect week. But we all know how sh*t comes up and we can't do what we'd like. So, some weeks it gets bumped down the line and I end up working out my back on Saturdays and arms on Sunday, then turn around and start over with chest on Monday.

    I've started to notice a plateau in my Chest PRESSING exercises as well as a few Arm lifts. And a decrease in Military press and Arnolds...

    I'm sure the Chest pressing has to do with arms a day or so before. I also hear that doing chest and back close together is a no no. I dunno, I feel like I'm just too fatigued and sore by the end of the week. Like i'm using the same muscles too many days in a row and not giving them proper rest.

    How should I set up a 5-day split to better accommodate proper rest?

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    When was the last time you took 5 or more days off? Sounds like you know you're overtraining but you don't want to take a break
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    how long have you been using the same routine?
    •   
       

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    No mention of age, which can be a factor.

    But regardless of age, in my estimation, you are doing way too much. You don't need to set up a 5 day split, unless you bring volume way down. If you want to maintain volume, then you need to lean out the frequency to every other day.

    And you need to take some time off before you do any of that.
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    I used to do 3 sets of 10, 8, 6 roughly...

    I just fully implemented the 4 sets of 16, 12, 8, 4 about a month ago probably.

    I took about 2 weeks off due to illness about 2-2.5 months ago now I'd say. And if time constraints really become an issue any given week, I ditch the arm day...

    And I do little things every week to switch up a little. For instance:

    -I'll do DB Incline, Flys and Low Cable Crosses one week and the next week I'll do DB Decline, Incline Flys and Cable Crosses.

    -Front Plate raises as opposed to DB Front raises...

    -DB Shrugs and BB Shrugs one week and DB Shrugs and Behind the Back Shrugs the next...

    -Standing Weighted Kickback instead of Lunges

    Other than that, I haven't really had an EXERCISE overhaul per say. I always thought tweaking it a little here and there always kept the body guessing and growing.... Maybe i'm not tweaking enough? Ideas please....

    **EDIT**

    Age: 23
    Height: 5'9
    Weight: 204
    BF: ~15% or so
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    IMHO you are doing too much volume. Without AAS, you will be over training with that much volume. I was doing a very similar 5 day split last year when I was running test/anadrol. This year, I've been doing 3 day splits, much less volume, and have noticed that I am now at the same strength level as last year on cycle. I would suggest taking a week off, then switching up your routine. A lot of people have a misconception that more is better, and it is simply not true. It's the intesity of the workout. Hope that helps. ~freq~
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    Quote Originally Posted by freqfly View Post
    A lot of people have a misconception that more is better, and it is simply not true. It's the intesity of the workout. Hope that helps. ~freq~
    Well, my workouts definitely don't lack in intensity. I only take about 40-60 seconds rest between sets and more towards a full minute between exercises. I finish all my lifting in less than an hour. Unless, I do some extra ab work or something of the sort, but even then, its still usually just under an hour.

    I'm definitely open to the idea that I'm trying to do too much and in turn it's having a negative impact on me. I guess I'm just looking for some workout examples that you guys have used and had success with.
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    Everyone is different. One thing won't work for everyone. Blah blah.

    No disrespect, but your workout plans suck. It looks like one of those 'Get Jay Cutler's Body' workout plans from Flex.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    My current routine is a 3 day.
    day 1, chest/biceps
    day 2, back/triceps
    day 3, shoulders/back

    Been working excellent for me
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    Quote Originally Posted by freqfly View Post
    My current routine is a 3 day.
    day 1, chest/biceps
    day 2, back/triceps
    day 3, shoulders/back

    Been working excellent for me
    His whole scheme is out of whack. If you did the $hit he was doing, like 5 exercises and 4 working sets for each, you'd be downhill where he is.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by freqfly View Post
    My current routine is a 3 day.
    day 1, chest/biceps
    day 2, back/triceps
    day 3, shoulders/back

    Been working excellent for me
    Bro what are you talking about? how can u give advice to someone.. and how the hell can u ever be taking AAS with out working out your legs? .. talk about over training.. u are working out your bis way too much.. they are getting direct work your first day and then you have two days of back where they get indirect work.. how can you use maximum intensity and weight to work out a large muscle group like back when your biceps are always so fatigued?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigzach1234 View Post
    Bro what are you talking about? how can u give advice to someone.. and how the hell can u ever be taking AAS with out working out your legs? .. talk about over training.. u are working out your bis way too much.. they are getting direct work your first day and then you have two days of back where they get indirect work.. how can you use maximum intensity and weight to work out a large muscle group like back when your biceps are always so fatigued?
    Hahaha! Dis man speakith da truef!
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigzach1234 View Post
    Bro what are you talking about? how can u give advice to someone.. and how the hell can u ever be taking AAS with out working out your legs? .. talk about over training.. u are working out your bis way too much.. they are getting direct work your first day and then you have two days of back where they get indirect work.. how can you use maximum intensity and weight to work out a large muscle group like back when your biceps are always so fatigued?
    Not sure what I was thinking or typing, day 3 is shoulders and legs.

    Monday: Chest/bi's
    Wednesday: Back/tri's
    Friday: Shoulders/Legs

    My bad for the typo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Everyone is different. One thing won't work for everyone. Blah blah.

    No disrespect, but your workout plans suck. It looks like one of those 'Get Jay Cutler's Body' workout plans from Flex.
    None taken... That's the main reason why I posted it up and asked for some advice. Clearly you must have overlooked that portion of the thread. I understand that people respond differently to various types of training. Which is why I wanted to hear some ideas as to what I could try out. Kind of a, "here is what I'm doing, give me some ideas/tips to be more successful" deal...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShiftyCapone View Post
    None taken... That's the main reason why I posted it up and asked for some advice. Clearly you must have overlooked that portion of the thread. I understand that people respond differently to various types of training. Which is why I wanted to hear some ideas as to what I could try out. Kind of a, "here is what I'm doing, give me some ideas/tips to be more successful" deal...
    I will write down a few schemes that worked for me when I get into work and I'll even write the logic behind them, aight?
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    OP,

    Its all going to be relative to your own individual diet and how hard you actually push yourself in the gym. Not to say you do or dont, but 3x10 with 155 on bench isnt anyhting like 3x10 with 255. You could be just annihilating yourself every time and with your diet, it is hard to keep up. You may just want to take one, even two weeks off and just do some light cardio and sprints everyday. You may feel like you are "losing it" but anything youve gained wont disspear that fast, especially if you're "overtraining." Im a firm believer in the philosophy that you cant over train, just underrecover.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    I will write down a few schemes that worked for me when I get into work and I'll even write the logic behind them, aight?
    That would be great. Much appreciated...


    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    OP,

    Its all going to be relative to your own individual diet and how hard you actually push yourself in the gym. Not to say you do or dont, but 3x10 with 155 on bench isnt anyhting like 3x10 with 255. You could be just annihilating yourself every time and with your diet, it is hard to keep up. You may just want to take one, even two weeks off and just do some light cardio and sprints everyday. You may feel like you are "losing it" but anything youve gained wont disspear that fast, especially if you're "overtraining." Im a firm believer in the philosophy that you cant over train, just underrecover.
    Well, I got the idea to do this sort of training from Arnold's Body Building Encyclopedia. Just the 4 sets of 16, 12, 8, 4 reps, not the exercises and split set up. And in the book, he says that they should all be with a weight where you're giving it your all on the last rep. He even goes as far as to say that the 4th set would ideally be done with a partner so you can get in a couple forced reps. Some days I'll struggle to even pull off 1 solid rep on DB Bench with the 100lb DBs. Other days, I've gotten as many as 6 not including 2 partials... It has been back and forth like this for a little while now. So, it's not like i'm going light and easy on myself. But at the same time, I'm seeing little to no progression in certain areas. Which is where I'm concerned.

    And as far as diet is concerned, I know I definitely need to pay more attention to what I eat. Not that I eat poorly, but I rarely keep track of caloric intake. I try and eat close to the same amounts or types of things every day. I estimate a 40/40/20 macro breakdown, but like I said, I haven't actually crunched the numbers. So, that may have something to do with it as well. Once I get the time, I will have to sit down and figure out my base meal plan and go from there.

    Thanks for all the input/ideas so far guys....
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShiftyCapone View Post
    Well, I got the idea to do this sort of training from Arnold's Body Building Encyclopedia. Just the 4 sets of 16, 12, 8, 4 reps, not the exercises and split set up. And in the book, he says that they should all be with a weight where you're giving it your all on the last rep. He even goes as far as to say that the 4th set would ideally be done with a partner so you can get in a couple forced reps. Some days I'll struggle to even pull off 1 solid rep on DB Bench with the 100lb DBs. Other days, I've gotten as many as 6 not including 2 partials... It has been back and forth like this for a little while now. So, it's not like i'm going light and easy on myself. But at the same time, I'm seeing little to no progression in certain areas. Which is where I'm concerned.

    And as far as diet is concerned, I know I definitely need to pay more attention to what I eat. Not that I eat poorly, but I rarely keep track of caloric intake. I try and eat close to the same amounts or types of things every day. I estimate a 40/40/20 macro breakdown, but like I said, I haven't actually crunched the numbers. So, that may have something to do with it as well. Once I get the time, I will have to sit down and figure out my base meal plan and go from there.

    Thanks for all the input/ideas so far guys....
    Well I was just saying, I cant know what all you do. Im just saying, if you kill yourself and are dozing off when you leave the gym because youve exhausted yourself to that extent, you may have to eat a lot more than you imagine.

    I mean, numbers and measuring your food is great and useful, but in the end, those numbers will all be relative to you. You may need more, just as part of your makeup. I think you just should overhaul your diet and make sure all meals and such around your workout are on point.
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    Shifty, as FOG has said everybody is different. I'd try to scale back on volume and see how your results measure up.

    This was a successful routine for me with about 12-16 sets each day:

    Day 1: Vertical push/pull (Shoulders/back)

    Day 2: Legs (Hams/Quads)

    Day 3: Horizontal push/pull (Chest/back)

    I like this routine because it gives me plenty of time to focus on lats, a trouble area of mine. I typically will only be lifting 3 days a week to give myself plenty of rest and time to grow.

    I think the key thing for you to do is experiment with different volumes and intensities. For instance, you may get better results by not going to failure.

    I've found my formula for success is low volume, med/high intensity 3-4 times a week. I've found that diet means about 5x as much toward results as what routine you do, however, I'd wager that your overtraining is limiting your results even with a perfect diet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShiftyCapone View Post
    Alright, so here's my dilemma.... I have been noticing, that as of late, some of my lifts have been dropping in weight and or intensity... I have been struggling more with weight that I used to be able to nail. It's only some exercises though. Others are still progressing. Here is a typical week's workout schedule..... All workouts are done for 4 sets of 16, 12, 8, 4 reps unless otherwise noted...
    Breaks are always good, both mentally and physically. You might also consider changing your routine for a week and going every high repetitions. 20-25.

    Sometimes a little active rest is in order. Instead of just laying on the couch watching TV try doing another activity for a week. Basketball, soccer etc.
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    try varying the excersizes a little more. and changing up the amount of reps you do.
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    What are your goals? and your age?

    I'm not posting to offend by any means but this looks like the type of routine a lot of the freshmen do at my school.

    There is absolutely no way, without AAS, that you are able to keep intensity high with all those sets.

    You'd be better off with either a MWF fullbody routine or a lower/upper split routine.

    IMO, you should take a week off and take the time that you usually go to the gym and scour these boards and ask any questions you might have about routines, diet, supps or whatever else you have questions about and return the next week refreshed and ready to start a much better routine.

    You'll probably be focused and hyped up more than ever knowing that your on the right track.
  

  
 

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