trouble getting progress in my delts
10-14-2008 06:26 PM
Thanks for the help guys. Lot of good info here for me to try. I'm excited about it.
10-14-2008 06:55 PM
My advice is DO NOT do behind the neck. You should be going to the front bringing the bar right to the top of your upper chest. it can actually almost rest there if the movement is done correctly. this is a full range of motion. from here push up and stop before arms lock out, you can even stop a little ways before lowering triceps involvement = more energy for your shoulder = greater intensity = HUGE shoulders.
look where the people that go BTN actually go to usually, they are doing a 25% shoulders and 75% triceps exercise! those with good genetic will get great results but those without will not. even if you go all the way to the neck (which is bad for joints) it is still not as big of a range of motion.
for me it is all about efficiency. i can do shoulders completely in 3 sets. 2 military and 1 side lateral and have done this many times. The right form, heavy as weights, massive intensity and go on with the workout.
10-14-2008 08:21 PM
Cool. I'm doing HIT right now. So I think I'll pre-exaust with laterals and finish with some presses. Thanks.
Originally Posted by fritzer
10-14-2008 09:06 PM
i would not pre exhaust... presses use more muscles and greater overload
save the side lateral for after
10-14-2008 09:13 PM
HIT training is all about pre exaustion. So I'm gonna do it that way. I'm not gonna stay on HIT. After that I'll do it your way.
10-14-2008 11:28 PM
In a sense, i agree. But when doing BTN press, i do them standing and in very much control, meaning i dont jerk and yank the weight around like some idiot. When lowering, i do it slow and just to ear level and NO lower. I have zero pain and really like the pump i get from it. My back right below my neck is really developing nicely. Although next week, i will probably go back to standing military press to the front or Seated DB presses. I still like them and have read many people who use them.
Originally Posted by fritzer
10-15-2008 12:00 AM
msucurt... i see what you are saying that is marius puz..etc world strongest man style. i have tried that, it is a difficult method but if you can do it then i am all for that. i wouldnt recommend it for most though. but i get your drift
10-15-2008 01:31 AM
I just watched a military guy at my gym do a shoulder routine I'd never seen before. He took and olympic bar and put plates on one side. The other end sat on the floor in front of him. He'd press the weight with one hand up over his head like a shoulder press and then lower it down onto his other shoulder. This also involves the obliques. He also did them two handed.
10-15-2008 07:24 AM
i like fritzer's advice here. Shoulders are easy to overwork and they are alot of fun to work for me so that makes it alot easier to overtrain, not to mention the indirect work they get all the time. military to the front is better than the btn because its safer and just as effective. military, side laterals, and pec dec or db rear delt flyes should be more than enough.
10-15-2008 09:16 PM
For these you are gonna have to have really good flexibility in your chest but they will destroy your middle delts. You'll have to make a pretty large drop in the poundage you are using. If you usually use 75's for shoulder presses then go back to the 30's or 35's. Higher reps for these too.
Sit backward on an incline bench (bench should be a few degrees short of 90). Kick the DB's up to your shoulders, lean forward and place your forehead against the pad pad of the bench (shoulder blades pulled together) then just press the weight like a regular seated DB press.
KEEP YOUR FOREHEAD PRESSED AGAINST THE PAD THE ENTIRE MOVEMENT.
10-15-2008 10:13 PM
This looks pretty interesting...so I push it up over my dead, but instead of pushing up, I'll e pushing diagonally. Never thought of that at all. Thanks man.
Originally Posted by jtp217
10-15-2008 10:14 PM
By the way, how many reps?
10-15-2008 10:38 PM
Well its pretty clear to me, when you said you had trouble with your medial (side) delt and strong traps. This tells me you rotate back your shoulder to use your front delts during presses. Also when doing side or rear movements its apparent your lats are pulling up the entire joint for the lift until you can use fronts or biceps.
I have a few simple solutions i guarantee will work.
1) when doing laterals keep a constant slight elbow bend and do not allow your a) thumbs to point upwards or b) fists to rise higher than your elbows.
When your elbow is beneath your wrist, your shoulder rolls back so your front delt is highest.
If you have a back arch/lean back during military presses its using more upper chest and front delt.
I should make a video to emphasise the difference, but try to do your laterals with your heel of your palm slightly higher than your thumb and keep your elbows above your wrist.
This will feel difficult and use very low weight because those muscles typically dont bear much weight.
Another easy way to overload the medial/rear delts is to do a lateral with a 90 degree arm bend and keep your elbows above your wrist.
It is not neccessary to lift above shoulder height and this usually causes the front delt to kick in and take the load, so a smaller ROM is very likely for maximun benefit.
Try it now with no weight and you will see what i mean.
Then try to have thumbs up and elbows down on laterals and you will see how your front delts hold the load.
10-15-2008 11:06 PM
Thanks so much for the advice. Combined with JTP's advice for the presses, this will really work nicely when incorporated in my HIT routine. Everyone who has helped here is awesome and I really appreciate all the replies I've gotten from everyone.
Originally Posted by somewhatgifted
10-16-2008 07:04 AM
It will still be a straight up and down press but when you have your head forward against that pad it just makes it 10 times harder. Your body shouldn't have much lean going on, just your head a little forward.
I personally can't hardly do those w/ DB's. If you have a seated shoulder press machine at your gym you can do the same exercise but just setting backwards in the seat.
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