Mass FX university study

[jdev]

Are there results yet?

 

[KgTomCat]

wut university did a study?

 

[ReaperX]

Wright State University allegedly.

It is located near Dayton, Ohio. I pass around the area when I go home sometimes.


It's kinda a low-rung/commuter university, IMO.

 

[joebo]

It seems these studies will never be seen, since I recall reading a similar post a long time ago. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting to see these studies because they probably don't exist and never will. Its called MARKETING!!

 

[ReaperX]

I think this issue on a university study was brought up over a year ago. I agree though. The whole issue is b.s.

 

[joebo]

I think this issue on a university study was brought up over a year ago.

It was used as marketing when the product was first released, but yet was never conducted or shown to anyone.

 

[jdev]

I just read over that thread where PA bashes 25R-Diol. That was pretty much AX and Dr. D's only defense.

 

[ReaperX]

I don't buy AX products.

 

[KgTomCat]

wut is BAM? wuts wrong with AX? personal preference or wut?

 

[gogo]

wut is BAM? wuts wrong with AX? personal preference or wut?

BAM is Bad-Ass-Mass

Its made by ALRI

 

[MentalTwitch]

I would only trust a few select universities, especially in the supplement testing.
i.e. most Chicago U's, U of I Champaign(illinois)
Major ones in Ohio, Penn state. of the top of my head.

 

[jdev]

Baylor, around where I am, does alot of supplement testing, but most of it is sponsored (By MuscleTech usually). However their med school is pretty well respected, so some of their results i believe.

 

[jasonschaffin]

The results are on bb.com. Also apparently in an add in FLEX. So everybody saying AX made it up, you're wrong. Results were favorable as well. But I'm not gonna do the work to paste it over for you. Find it yourself or hope AX brings it over here.

 

[slow-mun]

The results are on bb.com. Also apparently in an add in FLEX. So everybody saying AX made it up, you're wrong. Results were favorable as well. But I'm not gonna do the work to paste it over for you. Find it yourself or hope AX brings it over here.

:goodpost:He is absolutely correct.

 

[T-AD]

Wow, some strong hate from mostly names I've never seen before. Thanks for the unkind words, folks! We love ya!! :lol:

In all seriousness... We had NOTHING to do with getting the results together. All AX did was supply the product. The idea wasn't even our's to do the study. But since they wanted to do it, AX gladly obliged. It was controlled, planned, and done solely by the Univ. itself. Results are soon out, or they are already. (I've been offline for a few days.) It wasn't our job to put the results out, as they were composed by the University. When they are released to the public, so shall they be released to us to post for you.

As politely as I can say it - end of story.

 

[Zero V]

Wright State University allegedly.

It is located near Dayton, Ohio. I pass around the area when I go home sometimes.


It's kinda a low-rung/commuter university, IMO.

Dang bro where you live? Im here in ohio. Right near canal winchester.

 

[Zero V]

Wow, some strong hate from mostly names I've never seen before. Thanks for the unkind words, folks! We love ya!! :lol:

In all seriousness... We had NOTHING to do with getting the results together. All AX did was supply the product. The idea wasn't even our's to do the study. But since they wanted to do it, AX gladly obliged. It was controlled, planned, and done solely by the Univ. itself. Results are soon out, or they are already. (I've been offline for a few days.) It wasn't our job to put the results out, as they were composed by the University. When they are released to the public, so shall they be released to us to post for you.

As politely as I can say it - end of story.

Maybe I can convince our athletic department to do this....And be a tester for them Mass FX and Hyperdrol x2
hmmmmmm. I go to CSCC(columbus state in Ohio)

I plan on running those 2 for the main feature of my winter bulk. Been staring at them for weeks lol.

 

[jdev]

Okie doke. My apologies to AX.

its here fore anyone who would like to look at it
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6954571&page=24

Bench increases by 800% (over placebo)

 

[Steveoph]

Waiting for the study before I weigh in, although the bench improvement in the placebo has got me with several Q's.

 

[Zero V]

Okie doke. My apologies to AX.

its here fore anyone who would like to look at it
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6954571&page=24

Bench increases by 800% (over placebo)

results look pretty decent to me.

 

[T-AD]

Okie doke. My apologies to AX.

its here fore anyone who would like to look at it
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6954571&page=24

Bench increases by 800% (over placebo)

No apologies necessary. It's gonna take a heck of a lot more to get my dander!! I'm flyin high on life this week!! :cheers:

Much obliged for digging up the link. For what it's worth, reps...

 

[thebigt]

No apologies necessary. It's gonna take a heck of a lot more to get my dander!! I'm flyin high on life this week!! :cheers:

Much obliged for digging up the link. For what it's worth, reps...

damn, tim. high regards, for the mature response. i have my problems with ax at times but lots of credit for subdued response.

 

[joebo]

Waiting for the study before I weigh in, although the bench improvement in the placebo has got me with several Q's.

Yes, I have a feeling there will be many very obvious flaws to this study when its actually posted, but I will wait to see.

 

[edwards]

as far as i can tell, the actual study was not released. just a teaser about bench increases over placebo group. according to [email protected], he said ETA is a few days now

 

[jmh80]

Yeah - looks like that's it, Edwards.

34 lb increase for those on MFX and 4 lb increase for those on nothing (in the flat bench press).

I love MFX. Can't wait to try the new version.

 

[T-AD]

as far as i can tell, the actual study was not released. just a teaser about bench increases over placebo group. according to [email protected], he said ETA is a few days now

According to [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] and the list goes on and on and on.... the ETA is a few days from now.

Trust me, we are as anxious to view the results as you are. For good or for bad, whatever they may be, we want to know just as much. Actually, probably more -it's our cred' on the line here! :cheers:

 

[thebigt]

just a few quick questions. since ax had nothing to do with this study, why did they choose it? what other products are they researching? my understanding is a controlled study is expensive, what were their reasons for conducting this study in the first place, what exactly are they hoping to find? and finally if ax is not paying the bill, who is?

 

[T-AD]

just a few quick questions. since ax had nothing to do with this study, why did they choose it? what other products are they researching? my understanding is a controlled study is expensive, what were their reasons for conducting this study in the first place, what exactly are they hoping to find? and finally if ax is not paying the bill, who is?

As far as I know, someone at the University itself brought the idea of the study up. They may have been a fan of MassFX, or wanted to study something - I don't remember exactly. The Univ. footed the bill for the study, with AX chipping in for the product and possibly for some of the bloodwork - not enough money given by AX to sway the tests, mind you, just to aid in costs at the request of the University. Afterall, if you were a company who could possibly see something good out of someone studying a part of you, wouldn't you want to help out just a bit without skewing the results? Reasons for conducting the study were myriad, but can best be summed up by saying that the purpose was most likely to find out what everyone wanted to know - does it work, does it live up to the label claims, and is it any good?

 

[thebigt]

As far as I know, someone at the University itself brought the idea of the study up. They may have been a fan of MassFX, or wanted to study something - I don't remember exactly. The Univ. footed the bill for the study, with AX chipping in for the product and possibly for some of the bloodwork - not enough money given by AX to sway the tests, mind you, just to aid in costs at the request of the University. Afterall, if you were a company who could possibly see something good out of someone studying a part of you, wouldn't you want to help out just a bit without skewing the results? Reasons for conducting the study were myriad, but can best be summed up by saying that the purpose was most likely to find out what everyone wanted to know - does it work, does it live up to the label claims, and is it any good?

just can't see where a university could justify research money being spent to see if a random product works. wonder what the cost justification is. after all expenditures have to be accounted for, i can't see doing a study to satisfy a whim as being justified.

 

[ReaperX]

just can't see where a university could justify research money being spent to see if a random product works. wonder what the cost justification is. after all expenditures have to be accounted for, i can't see doing a study to satisfy a whim as being justified.

I wonder if it was someone's thesis for grad school. I'm not so sure my university that I attended would conduct such a study.

 

[thebigt]

I wonder if it was someone's thesis for grad school. I'm not so sure my university that I attended would conduct such a study.

i was under the impression that studies had to be funded or at least show a potential for viable profits. i just can't see a university footing the bill merely to see if a particular supplement works.

 

[jmh80]

i was under the impression that studies had to be funded or at least show a potential for viable profits. i just can't see a university footing the bill merely to see if a particular supplement works.

Eh - dunno about the profits part. I think if you can show the study moving forward some part of science or whatever then it can be OK'ed.

Maybe there's a professor that's big into bodybuilding and has tried MassFX.

Does seem somewhat strange - being that this supp. isn't widespread like creatine.

 

[chim_chim]

It seems strange to do a university study for a combo product with multiple "strangely named" ingredients of unknown quantities. How does one isolate the dependent and independent variables?

A more typical university study is to take a single supplement (like creatine or ribose), use a pharmaceutical grade of it at a precise amount, and then do a double-blind test.

By the way, I am taking the new MassFx right now, and it is definitely leaning me out. I am pretty sure it has decreased my sex drive, however -- probably from the AI. I'm a fan of the product, just skeptical of the perpetually forthcoming study.

 

[globalhawk]

this study is for the original mass fx correct? how relevant is the study for the new mass fx?

 

[T-AD]

this study is for the original mass fx correct? how relevant is the study for the new mass fx?

Correct. The study was done for the original MFX, not MFX Max. Due to the length of time that it took for the Univ to get the paperwork and red tape taken care of, switching in MFX Max just wasn't an option.

How would it be relevant? Personally, I'd think that it would prove/disprove the validity of the core ingredients of MFX Max, as they are the base of the original as well.

As for all of the skeptics and funding questions, the only thing we can do is wait and see. Again, personally, I don't see the point in arguing validity based on what "someone has to gain". Perhaps things are just done to be done, that's all. We'll find out more when we find out more.

 

[gogo]

Perhaps things are just done to be done, that's all.

:clap2:

 

[jmh80]

As for all of the skeptics and funding questions, the only thing we can do is wait and see. Again, personally, I don't see the point in arguing validity based on what "someone has to gain". Perhaps things are just done to be done, that's all. We'll find out more when we find out more.

No one is arguing that I can see.

Academia isn't private industry though - so some of the debate is moot.

 

[Jack of Shadows]

As for all of the skeptics and funding questions, the only thing we can do is wait and see. Again, personally, I don't see the point in arguing validity based on what "someone has to gain". Perhaps things are just done to be done, that's all. We'll find out more when we find out more.

No offense, but you don't see it because you are one side of the equation - the business side - and not the research/academic side. You are right though...in the absence of a real report (including any financial interests), the argument is moot.

About funding...who does everyone think funds the research used to evaluate the efficacy of any of the drugs we use? Federal research funds are a small percentage of the money that is used for research. That means that whoever funds it has a stake in it. Drug companies fund and conduct the trials that the FDA uses to decide whether to approve new drugs. The FDA does not do so. Private funding is rarely, if ever, altruistic.

Even the suggestion that someone who decided to do the study "Was a fan of Mass FX" means that caution is warranted in reviewing all aspects of the study. Bias should always be a concern (not an accusation, but a concern...not all bias is conscious willful manipulation) and is why, even when the research is privately funded, it is peer-reviewed and such reviewers are required to disclose conflicts and potentially recuse themselves.

Anyone waiting for the results in the absence of more information on the method and design is missing the boat. Saying the results look pretty decent; that is, accepting them without other information on how they came to be, is short-sighted. Don't get me wrong - I realize that even those numbers are more than most ads offer, but it is really not science - clinically proven - until we get the hole picture.

I am not a foe...I am a scientist who conducts and publishes research, serves as a journal editor, and has written extensively on the proper conduct of such studies. I would simply like to see a real write-up of this study, from intro to design and methods, results, and conclusions. You can't rely on an "800%" increase in bench press over the placebo group in the absence of the other information.

Looking forward to more...

 

[T-AD]

I completely agree with you Jack o' Shadows. I do believe that all of that information will be revealed with the release of the documents.

Only one little mistake in there. I'm not on the business side of things. It isn't my job, nor has it ever been, to sell AX or its products. I merely answer questions based on personal experience and the collective experiences of other users. I may be the one AX rep who uses the science the least, simply because I'm not always in complete understanding of it. Nor are most others out there who are looking for help. Being a rep doesn't make me an employee. It makes me someone who can answer questions, be hospitable, and do so honestly with regards to the products I like. If I wasn't a rep, I'd still be a fan. That's never been a secret. In all honesty, when BigSmith called me to ask if I wanted to be a rep, I asked "What do I have to do?". His response was to "Keep doing what you've been doing." I can't help it - people helped me out, and I wanna give back. Perhaps that makes me odd...

But like all others, I await the results of the study and hope that all will be satisfied. If anyone has questions about it, we'll try to get the right University contacts for you.

Thanks, everyone, for following and anticipating.

 

[Steveoph]

:goodpost: Study will be out soon

 

[KgTomCat]

im sorry for asking, but wuts this study prove again?

 

[T-AD]

At this point, I think that the study results prove that the study was done. :lol: :rofl:

 

[BB12]

:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:

Great job there TD!

 

[KgTomCat]

wut did they study? if it works in producing test? or just to see wut the results are from using it...

 

[Jack of Shadows]

I completely agree with you Jack o' Shadows. I do believe that all of that information will be revealed with the release of the documents.

Only one little mistake in there. I'm not on the business side of things. It isn't my job, nor has it ever been, to sell AX or its products. I merely answer questions based on personal experience and the collective experiences of other users. I may be the one AX rep who uses the science the least, simply because I'm not always in complete understanding of it. Nor are most others out there who are looking for help. Being a rep doesn't make me an employee. It makes me someone who can answer questions, be hospitable, and do so honestly with regards to the products I like. If I wasn't a rep, I'd still be a fan. That's never been a secret. In all honesty, when BigSmith called me to ask if I wanted to be a rep, I asked "What do I have to do?". His response was to "Keep doing what you've been doing." I can't help it - people helped me out, and I wanna give back. Perhaps that makes me odd...

But like all others, I await the results of the study and hope that all will be satisfied. If anyone has questions about it, we'll try to get the right University contacts for you.

Thanks, everyone, for following and anticipating.

I stand corrected on the "business" part and in reading threads about this study, I have certainly noted that you seem supportive, helpful and while a "fan" largely unbiased.

But, as I noted, being a "fan" can have its own issues. No accusation intended; fans (defined as those who believe in something) can often see what they want to see in things. That is the value of an independent (hopefully) research study and review. It is laudable that such a study was conducted - look forward to seeing the details.