to those on the anarchy stack ...

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    to those on the anarchy stack ...


    how are u all timing ur omega 3 fat(flax or flish oil ) intake ? becos u cant use it at the same time as  high doses of cla as they compete for absorbtion , here's the whole paragraph i picked up from somewhere : 

    "
    CLA at high doses competes with EFAs and crowds them and their derivatives out of enzyme spaces.


    The effects of CLA supplementation on the (n-6) and (n-3) PUFA contents varied for the different fatty acids and was also diet dependent for some fatty acids. No effect of CLA was observed on the amount of 18:2(n-6), whereas it clearly decreased the 20:4(n-6) level in the egg yolk. The other (n-6) fatty acids showed a tendency to decrease by supplementing CLA, irrespective of the basal fat sources. On the other hand, 18:3(n-3) and 22:5(n-3) tended to increase or increased and 22:6(n-3) decreased as a result of supplementing CLA to the diets containing LF, SB and AF as the basal fat source. However, when an excess of 18:3(n-3) was provided by the FSO diet, the effect of CLA on the egg yolk (n-3) fatty acids was different. In the latter case, 22:5(n-3) and 22:6(n-3) increased, whereas 18:3(n-3) and 20:5(n-3) decreased. A reduction in 20:4(n-6) and in 20:5(n-3) (the latter only in treatment FSO) by CLA supplementation could be due to an inhibition of 6-desaturase. Belury and Kempa-Steczko (36 ) found that CLA was able to act as a substrate for 6-desaturase, the rate-limiting step in the conversion of linoleic and linolenic acid into 20:4(n-6) and 20:5(n-3), respectively. However, if CLA is a competitive inhibitor of 6-desaturase, an accumulation of linoleic and linolenic acids should be observed. This was generally not the case, with the exception of treatment AF. A decrease in 22:6(n-3) concentration in the yolk lipids due to feeding CLA was also found by Chamruspollert and Sell (26 ), although in combination with a much wider change in dietary linolenic acid levels. This suggests that the CLA isomers may also inhibit the enzyme responsible for this conversion, i.e., 4-desaturase. The possible mechanism behind this effect was not clear when a high amount of flaxseed oil (yielding an excess of linolenic acid) was fed to laying hens. In this case, the amount of 22:6(n-3) remained at the same level or tended to increase when CLA was fed. The reason why the incorporation of (n-3) fatty acids into the egg yolk is higher when CLA is fed is not clear. One possible explanation is based on the stereospecificity of the molecules. The structure of CLA is more comparable to linoleic acid than to linolenic acid. It is also known that the enzymes for desaturation and elongation of the (n-6) and (n-3) fatty acids are the same and that 6-desaturase acts preferentially on the (n-3) fatty acids. It is therefore possible that CLA is able to make a complex with 6-desaturase in the same way as linoleic acid does, thus preventing linoleic acid from being further converted to its long-chain metabolites. In addition, the incorporation of long-chain (n-3) fatty acids 20:5(n-3), 22:5(n-3) and 22:6(n-3) into cell membranes and phospholipids is in competition with the (n-6) long-chain PUFA. Because linoleic acid would be in competition with CLA for 6-desaturase in CLA-supplemented diets, relatively more (n-3) long-chain PUFA could be incorporated into the cell membranes of laying hens fed diets supplemented with CLA. 




    so if ure going to use cla with meals , say 5 caps each meal , then when are u using ur flax ? any ideas ? thanx .





    <P class=MsoNormal>

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    **** , what is with all the extra crappy addition to the post ? can a mod edit that out ? how do i do that properly ?
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    Well.... I don't take CLA with the anarchy stack personally. I just use ALCAR/R-ala/Green Tea/Biotin and use flax oil like it's going out of style

    BTW Ray that's some code picked up from a copy and paste. Because of our rich-text editor, it picks that up sometimes, I'll try and delete it.
    •   
       

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    Looks like you cut and pasted it from a web page - including some of the HTML.

    Nix all the stuff inside and including the "< >" characters.
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    yeah thats a possiblity , ofcourse flax oil will increase insulin sensitivity , but ofcourse u have to agree is diff , and it would be a fantastic addition when i am using insulin , that is what this question is mainly for , i dont really care much about the anarchy stack , just want to know how to time my flax oil and cla intake properly .
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    This is a good question. In the Anarchy thread it was mentioned that some people were rotating their EFA and CLA in take on opposite days. It was stated that CLA has a long half life in the body, but no specific time to gauge when EFA intake could resume without creating the conflict between the two. If anyone knows or can find (I couldn't on pubmed, but admittedly I'm lacking in the science aspect of this) the halflife of CLA I think this would give us the answer.

    So I guess what I'm really saying here is...

    Bump!

    cm5
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    I don't have any medline references, but for nearly four months I have been alternating days with CLA and EFA.

    If I remember correctly from the Anarchy Stack thread, BrooklynJuice (sp?) had posted quite a bit about it over on Animal's board.

    ~Todd
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    How have the results been for you with the rotating of cla and efa's on alternating days? I'm going to start using a few bottles of CLA I have next week, but have yet to decide how I am going to go about dosing it. Currently I take in about 15 grams of fish oil a day and 2 tablespoons of flax oil as well. This has helped my joints out alot, and I find that I generally have less aches and pains as a result. A method continuing with the efa supplementation while adding in cla would be nice.
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    I've experimented with both alternating meals and alternating days. I have settled on using them alternating days now because for me the bloating is much less this way.
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    For those using the alternate day method, how much CLA are you taking?

    I can understand how alternating days is the way to go if your taking in 12-15g of CLA in a given day. That just wouldn't leave a long enough gap in supplementation to include the flax in the same day. However, I'm still interested to know if taking both in the same day is possible if CLA is limited to a lower dosage like 6-7g in the morning. This is why the half life would be important to determine.

    I'm wondering if it's possible to utilize both in the same day and gain the benifits of both, and if that would possibly yield even more positive results. But this may be beyond what current research can determine.

    cm5
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    I'm also wondering about ways to utilize both in the same day. What I'm considering trying out is dosing cla at 4grams for each of my first four meals of the day, and then for my last meal before bed I'll be taking 2 tablespoons of flax and 6 or so grams of fish oil. Hopefully this won't lead to excessive bloating, only time will tell.
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    Originally posted by max silver
    What I'm considering trying out is dosing cla at 4grams for each of my first four meals of the day, and then for my last meal before bed I'll be taking 2 tablespoons of flax and 6 or so grams of fish oil.
    Yea this is exactly what I did for the first month or so and I was definitely bloating up more than when I switched. Now I do 16-18g cla one day then megadose on the efa's next day. Really hard to say which is better until you just try it and see how you respond.

    Also, you may want to take green tea w/ caffiene with the cla, BrooklynJuice believes it potentiates the cla to work even better. I can't say if it works better than alone or not but I can say that green tea is damn cheap and it is working real well for me.
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    yeah , thanx for all the inputs , i think i'm going to combine cla and flax in the same day , but 5 gms cla with 2 big meals of the day , and say around 4 hrs of that , i am going to avoid my flax , but at other times , i'm going to use the flax . flax cant be replaced , cla i feel comes secondary , so if anything , the sacrifice is going to be made for the cla .
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    Originally posted by tatortodd
    I don't have any medline references, but for nearly four months I have been alternating days with CLA and EFA.

    If I remember correctly from the Anarchy Stack thread, BrooklynJuice (sp?) had posted quite a bit about it over on Animal's board.

    ~Todd
    I'm a dolt! I didn't save the medline references to my computer, but just remembered that I saved a bunch of links to CLA research.

    Here they are (the first 3 are from BJ's posts on animal's board and the last is from my own searching):

    ~Todd
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    Just a quick question, for maximal absorption of cla should it be taken with meals, or more similarly to ala where it's taken before meals?
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    take the cla before meals, they give u pretty bad heart burns from my experience .
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    Sounds like everyone reacts different. I've been on it for 4 months now and have never experienced heart burn from CLA.

    ~Todd
  

  
 

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