Should we be supplementing with leucine regularly?

[EasyEJL]

So I understand Leucine is the important AA in a number of ways. Its inlcuded in BCAAs as it is rate limiting - Isoleucine and Valine require Leucine to be there in the appropriate proportions so that they can be used. You could eat a pound of straight Valine and it would be useless without enough Leucine.

I've read that the ratio is 2:1:1 Leucine:Valine:Isoleucine. But looking at a number of foods, it seems like the ratios are missing a bunch of leucine. Tuna for an example..

Protein & Amino Acids
Isoleucine 914mg
Leucine 1611mg
Valine 1022mg

So really should be over 1800mg of leucine for intake to use all the isoleucine, and over 2000 to use all the valine. I'm just not sure how accurate the 2:1:1 really is, what the exact #s are or if that is just rounded. Chicken breast is another example, and a different ratio

Protein & Amino Acids
Isoleucine 865mg
Leucine 1230mg
Valine 813mg

so I'm thinking about adding some leucine to my day to day supplementation, maybe buying some bulk and capping 500mg a pop to have with meals.

 

[CryingEmo]

Leucine is ketogenic, so IMO it might be the best thing you could consume anabolically... although it tastes horrible.

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

I really like this idea easy. It makes sense, it's simple, and it might get ya better results.. All of which I'm very for.

 

[MrBrightside]

I wouldn't think it'd have to be 2:1:1 verbatum. I'd think you're pretty much fine with any basic BCAA powder.

 

[pmiller383]

Definitely pick up some bulk easy, I usually take 5g's during my workout and I absolutely believe that it is more effective than just BCAA's. Also I noticed it helps keep my appetite in check after a workout, I believe it is responsible for increasing satiety impulses in your brain more than other amino's.

 

[OCCFan023]

I use bulk leucine currently because Xtend contains glucogenic amino acids. Great for muscle sparing.

 

[3clipseGT]

I use bulk leucine currently because Xtend contains glucogenic amino acids. Great for muscle sparing.

What do you mean by glucogenic my brotha? lol

 

[pmiller383]

They can act as a carbohydrate in that they will convert to blood glucose or glucogen, I believe. Please correct me if I am wrong though

 

[3clipseGT]

They can act as a carbohydrate in that they will convert to blood glucose or glucogen, I believe. Please correct me if I am wrong though

Yea i asked Easy and this is what he said.

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, the question there is timing, and what other bodily processes have to be happening for the body to choose to use them that way

 

[OCCFan023]

yea they convert to glucose through glucogenisis so I avoid them to stay in ketosis.

 

[Steveoph]

I've been a fan of leucine for a while. I find the taste bland, and I toss 1tsp-1tbsp in my mouth w/ water every meal. Gone through a few lbs of the stuff, and it's cheaper than even BCAA's. Am I messing with something, perhaps, but I've done it for months with no problems and I feel it helps me recover.

 

[pmiller383]

I wonder what the actually amount of glucogenic amino's would be needed to knock someone out of a keto. I imagine that you would have to have a pretty sufficient influx of the given amino's at once (such as free form supplementation) to achieve this.

 

[OCCFan023]

I wonder what the actually amount of glucogenic amino's would be needed to knock someone out of a keto. I imagine that you would have to have a pretty sufficient influx of the given amino's at once (such as free form supplementation) to achieve this.

I tried finding it but couldn't (but it has to be fairly high). I'm a paranoid mofo though so I don't want to risk it (although I probably should for muscle preservation.)

 

[pmiller383]

I tried finding it but couldn't (but it has to be fairly high). I'm a paranoid mofo though so I don't want to risk it (although I probably should for muscle preservation.)

If memory serves me aren't you considerably lean anyways? In which case I would not take such drastic measure to stay in a ketogenic state unless you are preparing for a contest or something. You could always do a little human experiment and pick up some keto strips and gradually increase bcaa consumption until you find an amount that triggers you to drop out of keto. Then get back into keto and test that amount again to make sure their was no other variables. It would be interesting to see the results.

 

[djl]

I've been a fan of leucine for a while. I find the taste bland, and I toss 1tsp-1tbsp in my mouth w/ water every meal. Gone through a few lbs of the stuff, and it's cheaper than even BCAA's. Am I messing with something, perhaps, but I've done it for months with no problems and I feel it helps me recover.

Taste.... bland..... ? Are you sure we're talking about the same Leucine?! Dear god the bulk stuff I got from NP is some of the foulest, vomit-in-the-back-of-your-mouth stuff I've ever tasted!!!

 

[CryingEmo]

I wonder what the actually amount of glucogenic amino's would be needed to knock someone out of a keto. I imagine that you would have to have a pretty sufficient influx of the given amino's at once (such as free form supplementation) to achieve this.

I think the odds are 50% that it'll turn to glucose. So if you consume 5-10 grams of isoluecine or valine... that's only 2.5 - 5 carbs. In a 2:1:1 ratio, that's still 20 grams bcaa's

 

[OCCFan023]

If memory serves me aren't you considerably lean anyways? In which case I would not take such drastic measure to stay in a ketogenic state unless you are preparing for a contest or something. You could always do a little human experiment and pick up some keto strips and gradually increase bcaa consumption until you find an amount that triggers you to drop out of keto. Then get back into keto and test that amount again to make sure their was no other variables. It would be interesting to see the results.

Yea I regularly test with Ketostix so I think I may try this out. I figure I have about a month to loose 4-7 lbs of fat so it wouldn't kill me (and got ReCreate to bolster effects as well.) I'll let ya know what I find.

 

[JDF]

I'd like to try the same experiment but I get a very small change on my ketostix, doesnt matter when I had my last refeed and I always stay ~12-18g of carbs/day.

Body must be pretty efficient at using ketones

 

[Cool]

Can anyone actually show evidence that it can change body composition, and if so, at what doses? I am honestly asking.

If your protien intake is high, you get plenty of leucine.

 

[John Smeton]

Protein synthesis

Luecine has shown in studies to be the one which stimulates protein syntheses . look at the Luecine section just before the grand final. Barcardi points out that the carbohydrates alone didn't do not a thing to protein syntheses; however, Luecine with the carbohydrates stimulated protein synthetis so the pathway for protein stimulation is Luecine.

John Berardi - Solving the Post Workout Puzzle - Part II

Am I saying it's the only amino acid you need? No. All I'm doing is bring the research to you. So in conclusion carbs alone don't do anything. Carbs and Luecine effect the protein turnover rate.

Is it possible that it's the only amino acid that's needed for protein synthesis? yes it's possible and I do not know.Maybe isoluecine and valine are needed. The research is interesting. It's debatable. I always go with the research. Lately some people have been saying Luecine alone does the job of Bcaa's.

to get deeper luecine for protein synthesis to occur has to be consumed with carbs(for insulin necessary for protein synthesis)which poses the question do Bcaa's at a separate time(in between meals) effect protein synthesis? because it appears luecine alone without anything else(carbs) doesnt.

 

[EasyEJL]

it seems that depending on details one of those 3 is always the big limiter (leucine, isoleucine, valine) and it seems that in whole foods the ratios are not much like 2:1:1 more like 2:1.5:1.2 or something like that. so if we are supplementing with more leucine anyhow, may as well eat as much whole food as possible, and just add the leucine.

 

[Deccadick]

Do you think that supplementing with just Leucine is as good or better than BCAA? Have you read much on this causing some kind of imbalance? or is that just BS?

 

[sportsbro21]

i like to use bulk BCAA powder with added leucine bulk powder. im a BIG fan of leucine. i always have good results with it.

haha i remember back in the day( when i was very uninformed) when leukic by muscletech came out, i used it with muscletech's MASSTECH hahahahaa i had some descent gains, at that point in my lifting career i would have sworn to you that leukic was just as good as steroids if not better hahaha little did i know it was just a bunch of leucine

 

[John Smeton]

Do you think that supplementing with just Leucine is as good or better than BCAA? Have you read much on this causing some kind of imbalance? or is that just BS?

Yeah supplementing luecine with or after meals.

 

[Deccadick]

You think thats embarasing, several years ago I used to down Glutamine, like I was Arnold popping D-bols all day. I didnt notice anything from this, but everywhere I was reading at the time claimed it was what one needed to do.:run:

 

[Deccadick]

SMETON
are you saying you have had good results with just Leucine? I wonder if we are better off taking Leucine with a whole meal, or just before, during, and or after a workout???

 

[John Smeton]

SMETON
are you saying you have had good results with just Leucine? I wonder if we are better off taking Leucine with a whole meal, or just before, during, and or after a workout???

I always use protein..and have added in luecine with increased results. did you read the article I posed a few posts back

 

[Deccadick]

No, but I will read it asap. Must be pretty expensive for one to consume 400 grams of protien daily eh?

 

[EasyEJL]

No, but I will read it asap. Must be pretty expensive for one to consume 400 grams of protien daily eh?

its not too bad if you really scour for sales at grocery stores and have some frezer space to pick up extras. One grocery store had "natural" chicken breasts on sale one holiday weekend for .99 a pound. so I bought all they had and froze it each pound of chicken breast is good for around 100g of protein I think

 

[Steveoph]

Taste.... bland..... ? Are you sure we're talking about the same Leucine?! Dear god the bulk stuff I got from NP is some of the foulest, vomit-in-the-back-of-your-mouth stuff I've ever tasted!!!

Hmm maybe I got the tasty batch lol. I've gone through 2kilos of leucine, and I throw about 10g in my mouth then rinse with water and swallow :S

Perhaps bulk CEE, Arginine and Yellow Gold have desensitized me!

 

[Wanderlei]

it seems that depending on details one of those 3 is always the big limiter (leucine, isoleucine, valine) and it seems that in whole foods the ratios are not much like 2:1:1 more like 2:1.5:1.2 or something like that. so if we are supplementing with more leucine anyhow, may as well eat as much whole food as possible, and just add the leucine.

I don't see the reasoning in the ratio discrepancies. Are you implying that the 2:1:1 ratio is not ideal because it is not reflective of the ratios found in our food sources? Chicken or tuna may have different ratios as that's what's optimal for thsoe species. Humans may differ in requirements and 2:1:1 is optimal.

 

[EasyEJL]

No what I was saying is that since other animals have a ratio that has a lower amount of Leucine and that if human requirement is 2:1:1 then with solid proteins we are being rate limited by not enough Leucine. So adding an extra 500mg of Leucine per meal would help even out the chicken/tuna ratio

 

[strategicmove]

Do you think that supplementing with just Leucine is as good or better than BCAA?...

No. Leucine is the most anabolic essential amino acid. Yet, even though it is the BCAA that triggers protein synthesis, complete protein synthesis cannot take place, unless enough BCAAs and EAAs are available. Leucine should not replace the complete BCAAs for standard supplementation.

 

[Deccadick]

So you are saying that One could get better results with just consumng BCAA'S? VS adding Leucine? Please explain why supplementing with BCAA's would be more effective than consuming Whey protein before, and or after a workout?

 

[Deccadick]

Or what advantage do Free form amino acids have over Whey, isolate for example?

 

[Wanderlei]

Or what advantage do Free form amino acids have over Whey, isolate for example?

They have a faster assimilation rate. Also protein needs to be broken down(hence the slower assim rate) and this may be why some say you can only consume 50g of protein in one sitting. I don't completely buy into that theory though. Thus timing becomes a key component. You can use whey though if you time it correctly.

 

[Wanderlei]

No what I was saying is that since other animals have a ratio that has a lower amount of Leucine and that if human requirement is 2:1:1 then with solid proteins we are being rate limited by not enough Leucine. So adding an extra 500mg of Leucine per meal would help even out the chicken/tuna ratio

Ah, that makes sense. I used that ratios in food a bit differently though. I usually throw extra leucine into my peri and post workout drinks usually resulting in a 4:1:1 or 8:1:1 if not higher ratio. I don't worry about depletion of isoleucine or valine since the ratio in food will in essence counter the imbalance in my drinks.

 

[Cerberus777]

I put 14 grams in 1.5L of water with a little crystal light (helps it mix and taste better). I drink 4 of these a day as my water intake all day and peri workout. I used to do this with BCAA's but tried it with just leucine for the past 3 months and feel I recover fster and have put on a few lbs also. I follw a very low carb diet but don't feel as run down.

 

[John Smeton]

I put 14 grams in 1.5L of water with a little crystal light (helps it mix and taste better). I drink 4 of these a day as my water intake all day and peri workout. I used to do this with BCAA's but tried it with just leucine for the past 3 months and feel I recover fster and have put on a few lbs also. I follw a very low carb diet but don't feel as run down.

Nice success storie.
Im not saying other bcaa's arnt needed, i dont know; however the research does who luecine with carbs stimulate protein sysnthesi.

do you take this alone or with carbs?

 

[Cerberus777]

I only carb up once or twice a week after workout. the rest is water. never feel hypo so I guess it acts as brain fuel also if need be. but ive gained muscle so i see it works for pro-synth. with out carbs.

 

[John Smeton]

Reseach shows Luecine has to be with carbss for protein synthesis.

Please understand I'm just going by the research. I hope luecine alone stimulates protin, synthesis. Research just says otherwise..

m,aybe there should be some research on juist luecine,.....yiur one...I might try supplementing with luec alone

 

[Cerberus777]

I only carb up once or twice a week after workout. the rest is water. never feel hypo so I guess it acts as brain fuel also if need be. but ive gained muscle so i see it works for pro-synth. with out carbs.

 

[Cerberus777]

I have seen some research done with rats on keto and it looked favorable. I guess the question is how much carbs are necessary and can glutimine take their place. Ive only done seat of the pants reaserch and it seems to work. I only take in veggies and what is in peanutbutter 5-6 days a week.

 

[footster]

hey guys, whats ketogenic? I tried to look it up but can only find diets.

 

[strategicmove]

So you are saying that One could get better results with just consumng BCAA'S? VS adding Leucine? Please explain why supplementing with BCAA's would be more effective than consuming Whey protein before, and or after a workout?

I am not sure if your post was a reaction to mine (the one before it). If it was, it is not clear to me how you could have extracted these conclusions from what I wrote. My post made clear that Leucine should not replace complete supplementation with BCAAs. I have never supported a BCAA-only type supplementation. My approach is to first ensure the EAAs are covered. Then add some extra BCAAs. Then add extra leucine.

 

[strategicmove]

Or what advantage do Free form amino acids have over Whey, isolate for example?

Absorption.

 

[OCCFan023]

hey guys, whats ketogenic? I tried to look it up but can only find diets.

In terms of this discussion (the Ketogenic Amino acids) it is the amino acids that are can be converted into Ketone bodies in our body for use as fuel in the heart and brain.

 

[EasyEJL]

Ah, that makes sense. I used that ratios in food a bit differently though. I usually throw extra leucine into my peri and post workout drinks usually resulting in a 4:1:1 or 8:1:1 if not higher ratio. I don't worry about depletion of isoleucine or valine since the ratio in food will in essence counter the imbalance in my drinks.

my thought was based around "i'm pretty sure that I can fit 500mg of leucine into a 00 cap, and i'm pretty sure that with adding 1-2 caps to each solid foods meal i can correct the animal protein ratios for that meal" probably continue to use xtend or some other bcaa for the non-meal related times.

 

[OCCFan023]

my thought was based around "i'm pretty sure that I can fit 500mg of leucine into a 00 cap, and i'm pretty sure that with adding 1-2 caps to each solid foods meal i can correct the animal protein ratios for that meal" probably continue to use xtend or some other bcaa for the non-meal related times.

Today is day 1 of adding additional leucine to my intra workout Xtend and Bulk BCAA combo. I'm also taking in some bulk mono and all the mixing and measuring is already a pita. Time to buy a capping kit.

Have you started taking in the leucine with meals or are you still researching if it will benefit you?