Jungle Warfare: I might be losing hair HELP!

[teribleturtle]

Hello all, about a month ago I posted a thread before I started JW asking some questions pertaining to hair loss. I am 3 weeks in the cycle and I think i might be experiencing some hair loss around my hairline, specifically around the center of the hairline. The loss is barely noticeable but it is causing me some concern none the less. My questions are:

1. Is any form of hair loss (big or small) common on JW?
2. If I am experiencing a small amount of hair loss did I totally
screw up my hair, meaning did I cause the hair loss process
to begin prematurely?
3. If I stop taking JW would the hair loss stop and my hair eventually grow back?

 

[snookl187]

yes it's common and you may have jumpstarted MPB. More then likely it will grow back after use though.

 

[teribleturtle]

yes it's common and you may have jumpstarted MPB. More then likely it will grow back after use though.

I hope it will grow back as MPB is not very common in my family, out of all my uncles (11 in all, yes its a huge family but im Latin) only one went bald. Do you think that picking up some Nizoral 2% would be a good preventative measure?

 

[dillweed]

I hope it will grow back as MPB is not very common in my family, out of all my uncles (11 in all, yes its a huge family but im Latin) only one went bald. Do you think that picking up some Nizoral 2% would be a good preventative measure?

yes

 

[JohnnieFreeze]

getting some spironolactone cream couldn't hurt either.

 

[JaredGalloway]

how come everyone is getting all these side effects except me....i feel so left out...ive been double dosing JW (6th week now) and still no effects...not even bad ones...:think::sad:

 

[JDF]

I believe it was PA who recommended nizerol on bb.com when talking about JW

 

[dhuge67]

Just buy some dermmatch or toppik and problem solved.

 

[teribleturtle]

Well I picked up the Nizoral 2% I really hope it can get some of my hair growing again, and as far as the JW i got about one week left on the first bottle I might as well finish it, I have a brand new sealed bottle though ( I was planning 8 weeks) that I now have to get rid of. My overall take on JW is that as far as strength increase, I did notice a bit of an increase but certainly not enough to sacrifice my hair. The one thing I really liked about JW is that strong libido boost and strong alpha male feeling, not an aggressive feeling but it was like I lost all inhibitions to approach most females. Also it gave me a very aggressive feeling and a sense of wellbeing while in the gym. So with that said what products would you guys recommend that will give me the libido boost/alpha male feeling without overstimulating the androgen receptors and cause hair loss?? I remember some people mentioning Diesel Test Hardcore or Coq Diesel, any thoughts on these products? Any incidents of hair loss?

 

[nephilim666]

nizornal works it juist makes ur hair feel weird.

 

[dhuge67]

Nizoral won't do much.

 

[teribleturtle]

So, anybody interested in that new/sealed bottle of Jungle Warfare I have sitting around???

 

[sogone2day]

check pms or auction

 

[EasyEJL]

So, anybody interested in that new/sealed bottle of Jungle Warfare I have sitting around???

sure, let me know what you'd like for it via pm. Drive maybe?

 

[ReaperX]

I just got rid of Jungle Warfare today.Traded it for 6 pack of coors. F-ck it. I got ripped off, but whatever, I'm not taking the product.

 

[teribleturtle]

I just got rid of Jungle Warfare today.Traded it for 6 pack of coors. F-ck it. I got ripped off, but whatever, I'm not taking the product.

6 pack of coors!!!!!! thats the funniest trade ever!!!!! so I am assuming you also had the hairloss issues?? I mean for a 6 pack coors it must have been bad

 

[EasyEJL]

really really bad

 

[ReaperX]

No, not hair issues. i didn't even start taking it at all. I'm not adiment about these shady issues re: Jungle Warfare. Plus based off the bloodwork that people have posted, you'd be better off running H-Drol instead.

The results from Jungle Warfare have been few and scattered vs. H-drol.

Not worth it, IMO.


btw, I hope you are getting bloodwork, because it appears that Jungle Warfare affects lipid levels negatively.

 

[ReaperX]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/90713-jw-isn-t.html

 

[teribleturtle]

yes it's common and you may have jumpstarted MPB. More then likely it will grow back after use though.

I know its old, but how long after I stop taking JW is the shedding supposed to stop. Also is the hair loss typically experienced from JW Telogen effluvium or MPB?? I have no family history of hair loss, but six weeks later I am still shedding hair

 

[ReaperX]

I hope the gains you got from JW were worth it. I'm glad I never used that product.

 

[ReaperX]

btw, losing hair for 6 weeks straight is something to be concerned about. It is one thing if you were taking 3g+ of test, but using just a bottle of JW shouldn't be doing that.

 

[teribleturtle]

btw, losing hair for 6 weeks straight is something to be concerned about. It is one thing if you were taking 3g+ of test, but using just a bottle of JW shouldn't be doing that.

I went to the dermatologist today, and left really pissed off. This Dr. had no idea what was going on she said just take some vitamins and give it a few more weeks to leave your system. I was thinking damn its already been 6 weeks!! all of the JW related sides except hairloss was totally eliminated within days of quitting.

I am really starting to get weirded out and worried by this because I am almost sure I dont have a genetic disposition towards MPB. Is it possible that what is occuring is Telogen Effluvium?? I have been reading up on this form of hair loss and found that many who use real juice often experience a period of shedding during PCT. I also found that hormonal imbalances or changes to hormone levels also triggers TE. As far as my hair situation it is mostly shedding and not thinning, correct me if I am wrong but arent shedding and thinning two different things? Thinning often being caused by MPB and shedding TE. I guess my question is, is "what the hell is going on, is my hair situation T.E. or MPB?????

 

[teribleturtle]

Reaper; BTW I didnt even use the whole bottle of JW only did 3 weeks and quit! I also had weird sides like a slight increase in facial/body hair. Honestly I really didnt even see any big gains except for a very slight increase in strength.

 

[Jmonster]

Well even though just 1 out of 11 uncles got mpb doesn't mean you cannot get it.Somewhere down it was passed down to someone in your family and as you you know it is heredetary(bad spelling) and is in your genetics.The JW probably just converted to DHT in your system and just sped up your genetics of MPB.Are you taking anything now as far as a PCT to block any conversion to estrogen or anything else.The worse thing you can do is just stop taking something without a good PCT especially since you were having bad sides...hopefully everything works out for you..

 

[teribleturtle]

Well even though just 1 out of 11 uncles got mpb doesn't mean you cannot get it.Somewhere down it was passed down to someone in your family and as you you know it is heredetary(bad spelling) and is in your genetics.The JW probably just converted to DHT in your system and just sped up your genetics of MPB.Are you taking anything now as far as a PCT to block any conversion to estrogen or anything else.The worse thing you can do is just stop taking something without a good PCT especially since you were having bad sides...hopefully everything works out for you..

No nothing for a PCT it was often mentioned that JW did not require a PCT. All of the sides except hair loss went away in a few days. But then again maybe I should have done a PCT, I was just so scared of putting more s1ht in my body that I said F*** shady supplements Im only sticking to whey powder for now on. Apparently my dermatologist told me today that I have nothing to worry about, that my hair doesnt look like its miniturizing/thinning which is MPB, and that shedding could be other things besides MPB. I really dont know who or what to believe but I know that this shedding isnt normal

 

[Xodus]

JW kickstarted my hairloss. It never came back once it started thinning, then epi, then a test E cycle and it is now pretty noticeable. Right up the center, I just keep it short and it isn't as noticeable.


:afro:

 

[ReaperX]

I'm not exactly sure what is going on. Hair loss is more complex than just DHT. Jungle Warfare's shady hormone that is in it is allegedly 5 alpha reduced so DHT should not be a problem. (if it is even what is printed on the bottle).


Also orals have shorter half-lives due to their nature vs. injectibles. There is nothing to clear your system. It should have been completely out of your body within 3 days of your last dose. It probably isn't JW anymore that is affecting you, but whatever the chemical was somehow seems to have had a lasting effect on you for the past several weeks.


I'm not sure what is happening, the chemical makeup for whatever their chemical ingredient is has been in question for a year. ALRI didn't even come out and say what it was, it had to be many other people sharing information together.

On top of that, their Restore product has also been in question.


It's all too shady for me.

 

[FrankJ]

yes it's common and you may have jumpstarted MPB. More then likely it will grow back after use though.

No, hair that was killed due to MPB does not grow back. You can thicken hair follicles that have thinned due to MPB, but once the follicle dies forget about it.

Thats why hair loss cures target the thinning bald spot, not the receding frontal region.

 

[teribleturtle]

No, hair that was killed due to MPB does not grow back. You can thicken hair follicles that have thinned due to MPB, but once the follicle dies forget about it.

Thats why hair loss cures target the thinning bald spot, not the receding frontal region.[/Q

Is it possible that an overabundance or sudden over load of DHT can cause some hair loss even in individuals not genetically susceptible to MPB? Again I ask this because I honestly think that I am not susceptible to it, or have ever had much DHT in my system before taking JW. The reason I say this is because I hardly have any facial/body hair, after taking JW I grew a little bit of it. Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn’t this indicate that I had very low DHT levels to begin with? Would I be wrong in assuming that JW caused an overload of DHT to which my body is not accustomed to thus causing some hair loss and some facial/body hair growth?

 

[teribleturtle]

I'm not exactly sure what is going on. Hair loss is more complex than just DHT. Jungle Warfare's shady hormone that is in it is allegedly 5 alpha reduced so DHT should not be a problem. (if it is even what is printed on the bottle).


Also orals have shorter half-lives due to their nature vs. injectibles. There is nothing to clear your system. It should have been completely out of your body within 3 days of your last dose. It probably isn't JW anymore that is affecting you, but whatever the chemical was somehow seems to have had a lasting effect on you for the past several weeks.


I'm not sure what is happening, the chemical makeup for whatever their chemical ingredient is has been in question for a year. ALRI didn't even come out and say what it was, it had to be many other people sharing information together.

On top of that, their Restore product has also been in question.


It's all too shady for me.

My question is what does a typical JW or for that matter any other steroid hair loss look like? For example I have heard of individuals that juice and only experience hair loss or shedding only while they are on the juice or during PCT, they say the shedding/ hair loss goes away after a few weeks in some cases months. So I guess my question to you is, does shedding/hair loss only affect those predisposed to MPB or can it possibly affect anyone using these substances???

 

[Xodus]

No, hair that was killed due to MPB does not grow back. You can thicken hair follicles that have thinned due to MPB, but once the follicle dies forget about it.

Thats why hair loss cures target the thinning bald spot, not the receding frontal region.[/Q

Is it possible that an overabundance or sudden over load of DHT can cause some hair loss even in individuals not genetically susceptible to MPB? Again I ask this because I honestly think that I am not susceptible to it, or have ever had much DHT in my system before taking JW. The reason I say this is because I hardly have any facial/body hair, after taking JW I grew a little bit of it. Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn’t this indicate that I had very low DHT levels to begin with? Would I be wrong in assuming that JW caused an overload of DHT to which my body is not accustomed to thus causing some hair loss and some facial/body hair growth?

Increased body/facial hair can be caused by the increase of Test in your system. I know my facial hair starts growing in faster/thicker on Diesel Test Hardcore and even an increase in some body hair growth (on my back where I do NOT normally have hair).

 

[ReaperX]

My question is what does a typical JW or for that matter any other steroid hair loss look like? For example I have heard of individuals that juice and only experience hair loss or shedding only while they are on the juice or during PCT, they say the shedding/ hair loss goes away after a few weeks in some cases months. So I guess my question to you is, does shedding/hair loss only affect those predisposed to MPB or can it possibly affect anyone using these substances???

No, you have to get away from the MPB aspect. You are looking at it with tunnel vision. Males have DHT build-up in the scalp as a result of our hormonal human nature. The only thing that having a genetic desposition will do is increase the likelihood of becoming bald.


If you think of it this way:


If you only buy (1) lottery ticket, does this mean it is impossible to win the lottery ? No, but just less of a chance vs. some dude who bought (9,999,999) lottery tickets.


That's all it is, is just chance.


Science seems to indicate that DHT build up occurs heavily in the frontal center portion of men's scalps. This is why men have that skirt crown of hair around the edges, but thinning and baldness in the front/center of their scalps.


As stated before, the DHT chokes out the hair folicles slowly, not the actual hair root that is connected within the folicles. The scalp isn't the only other area that is problematic with excess DHT. The prostate is also notorious for this as well.


I'm not really sure why you are losing hair, or what specifically is causing it. Not being prone to it, dosen't mean that it won't happen, there is just less likelihood that it will. Adding/Using androgenic substances will exacerbate this.


I'm not sure what steroid induced baldness looks like as I don't use steroids for many reasons, this issue being one.

Last time I used Furazadrol by Axis Labs my blood pressure sky rocketed, I had nose bleeds, and started shedding hair after about 1 week of using it. Never again. Furazadrol was also 5 alpha reduced as well.


I find it hilarious how ppl want to take heavily androgenic compounds and get this ego trip over their 'alpha male mentality'. I am probably the only one, but I'll skip on the ego trip on account for less health complications.


The perfect substance would be something that was 100% anabolic and 0% androgenic (for me).

 

[ReaperX]

The majority of IFBB pros are either bald or balding. There are a FEW pros that have a full thick head of hair, but most don't.


There are a few obvious juicers in my gym. One is bald, but the rest have noticible thin hair or receding hair lines (genetic or not) it is thin.


I just look on.

 

[sethroberts]

No, you have to get away from the MPB aspect. You are looking at it with tunnel vision. Males have DHT build-up in the scalp as a result of our hormonal human nature. The only thing that having a genetic desposition will do is increase the likelihood of becoming bald.


If you think of it this way:


If you only buy (1) lottery ticket, does this mean it is impossible to win the lottery ? No, but just less of a chance vs. some dude who bought (9,999,999) lottery tickets.


That's all it is, is just chance.


Science seems to indicate that DHT build up occurs heavily in the frontal center portion of men's scalps. This is why men have that skirt crown of hair around the edges, but thinning and baldness in the front/center of their scalps.


As stated before, the DHT chokes out the hair folicles slowly, not the actual hair root that is connected within the folicles. The scalp isn't the only other area that is problematic with excess DHT. The prostate is also notorious for this as well.


I'm not really sure why you are losing hair, or what specifically is causing it. Not being prone to it, dosen't mean that it won't happen, there is just less likelihood that it will. Adding/Using androgenic substances will exacerbate this.


I'm not sure what steroid induced baldness looks like as I don't use steroids for many reasons, this issue being one.

Last time I used Furazadrol by Axis Labs my blood pressure sky rocketed, I had nose bleeds, and started shedding hair after about 1 week of using it. Never again. Furazadrol was also 5 alpha reduced as well.


I find it hilarious how ppl want to take heavily androgenic compounds and get this ego trip over their 'alpha male mentality'. I am probably the only one, but I'll skip on the ego trip on account for less health complications.


The perfect substance would be something that was 100% anabolic and 0% androgenic (for me).

Absolutely 100% correct. Cancer has a genetic component too but if you live near chernobyl, the genetic component becomes irrelevent.

 

[ReaperX]

The point I was making earlier though was, assuming that Jungle Warfare is 5 alpha reduced, whatever that crap is inside the capsules isn't metabolizing into DHT and accelerating hair loss (by DHT).


If you were to take a non 5 alpha reduced substance instead, like testosterone as a very obvious example, then all your amounts will be increasing DHT substantially. Or whatever non 5 alpha reduced substance you are using.

 

[ReaperX]

Absolutely 100% correct. Cancer has a genetic component too but if you live near chernobyl, the genetic component becomes irrelevent.

Well, you can have a family history of heart disease, but if you eat McDonald's everyday does that mean you can't get heart disease if you are not prone to it ?



Genetics help play the odds, but external environmental factors really determine the outcome.

 

[sethroberts]

Well, you can have a family history of heart disease, but if you eat McDonald's everyday does that mean you can't get heart disease if you are not prone to it ?



Genetics help play the odds, but external environmental factors really determine the outcome.

Noone knows for sure. There are people that seem to be immune to certain environmental insults. There have been plenty of news stories about centenarians who smoke regularly and never got lung cancer. Now is it that they were not genetically prone to lung cancer or do they have some genetic component that actually protects them - or were trhey just lucky?

Or were they exposed to some other environmental factor that negated the effect of smoking?
Lots of factors.

 

[ReaperX]

Noone knows for sure. There are people that seem to be immune to certain environmental insults. There have been plenty of news stories about centenarians who smoke regularly and never got lung cancer. Now is it that they were not genetically prone to lung cancer or do they have some genetic component that actually protects them - or were trhey just lucky?

Too many different things it is impossible to pin point circumstances like this. At the same time, they are so rare they are almost negegible. Not to discredit stuff like this, but for every 1 person who smoked all their lives and lived to be 100, there are probably over a million people who didn't.


-Genetics
-Diet
-Exercise
-Environmental exposure
-Stress
-Work
-Asbestos ? (which was legal until 1982)


There are way too many applications to come to a specific conclusion as to why RARE circumstances like that occur.

Really in the end it is just 'luck', nothing else.

 

[ReaperX]

Well, actually maybe they didn't proper PCT after each cigarette.

 

[sethroberts]

Well, actually maybe they didn't proper PCT after each cigarette.

People use genetics as a crutch: I'm fat because of genetics, I'm an alcoholic because of genetics, I'm not gaining muscle because of genetics and on and on

 

[ReaperX]

Well, just like anything in life, you can fold or make the most from the hand your dealt.

 

[teribleturtle]

After extensive research looking into "what the hell did JW do to me" I was led to examining the concept of androgen receptor upregulation. What I found was that often when the body is introduced to more androgens it upregulates the receptors, sensitizes them. Going back to JW I often heard that it "sensitizes the androgen receptors and frees test" putting things together it seems that JW caused a massive AR upregulation, combined to the fact that it also increased test. My hypothesis is that this deadly combination of increased free test and AR upregulation flooded my scalp with DHT thus causing hair loss. I also found that one doesnt have to be genetically predisposed to MPB to get hair loss, one study I examined found that most individuals when exposed to high amounts of testosterone will suffer some degree of hair loss, those with a predisposition will suffer more.
My question to all of you is;
1. Is AR upregulation typically permanent
2. if so what can cause or what can I take to cause a downregulation of the AR?
3. I am considering Propecia now, any suggestions? anything I should be made aware of before I start propecia??