[LegalGear]

The only way I have ever had Ecdysterone work is using it topically. It is pretty easy to make into a topical, since it disolves into alcohol quite readily. That being said, topicals are not mainstream, so what were my experiences?

I first started taking Ecdy when I head about it in 1999 by Dr. Duarte. I found some 10mg capsules being sold and NOTHING...

Then I saw Kilosports was selling the powder BINGO I thought and bought some. Took 500mg per day and NOTHING...

I took 1200mg per day when we started making Product X Dermasize and NOTHING. Topically was really the only way I ever got any results and I think they are pretty good. I had a friend filter some and inject it and quite honestly, he said it seemed to work for him, but the half life of ecdysterone is questionable.

So, why then do we keep seeing the same **** repackaged over and over when we know it doesn't work? Why do ecdysterone based supplements KEEP resurfacing. If someone could at least explain the improvement over the prior generations, I might be interested...that never happens. So, what are you experiences?

[AtomSmasher]

Ive taken a couple ecdy products including bulk. I really cant say i noticed anything from them. The last time, which was about a year ago, i took it was for 8 weeks and still nothing. Im done with ecdysterone I dont see a reason to try any new product with it in it as a main ingredient

[LegalGear]

I don't disagree with you. Topically it works, but it isn't a huge mass builder for sure, more of a finishing product on top of your prohormone product.

[Mixelflick]

Originally Posted by LegalGear

I don't disagree with you. Topically it works, but it isn't a huge mass builder for sure, more of a finishing product on top of your prohormone product.

Hello again LG

The improvement over prior generations is primarily related to ecdysterone source. Rhaponticum Carthamoides is the reference standard if you will, with the bulk of human research. RC was in fact, the original compound the Soviet Ekdisten drug was derived from.

Prior generation Ecdy's were derived from the much cheaper Suma, Pfaffia Paniculata (Suma, different name) or cyanotis vaga. 20-hydroxyecdysterone was what they were looking for and I share your opinion it is worthless orally, works well transdermally. There have been 400+ other ecdysterones identified. The ones I feel work well orally are cyasterone, ponasterone, turkesterone to name a few. They are all included in RC extract and appear in precise ratios together referred to as "levsins" in the research.

They keep reappearing because the consumer feels something over time, albeit nothing dramatic like PH. Given the mode of action is likely incorporation into the cell membrane a la fish oil, this isn't surprising. For many of us, they work well and greatly reduce DOMS, add that extra rep and up total workload capacity during the workout. If you get a good RC extract, dose it hard and pick up some urinary testing strips for protein excretion, you'll see what I'm talking about.

I think you did a nice job with dermasize, for what it's worth. It's hard to overcome "bro-telligence" though on BB.com when everyone tries to compares it to Superdrol.

[ReaperX]

For what it is worth, the benefits that I have experienced do not outweigh the cost for a quality extraction of ecdy.

[tilerbreaker]

Well I'm no expert and haven't really read all that much about ecdys, but it just so happens that yesterday I was reading a big review about them and two things stood out to me. First, ecdysterones (and I'm generalizing here about all ecdys...there may be exceptions to what I'm saying) have big bulky groups at C17 that would prevent them from acting on androgen receptors. Therefore, any effects seen have to be coming from some other mechanism, which isn't really known to date. The second thing is that ectdys are hydrophilic, which means they readily dissolve in water, which is the opposite from most steroids (which are hydrophobic and dissolve in oil or some organic solvent). What this means practically is that ecdys will not be able to pass through cell membranes in the same way that steroids do. Therefore, if they are going to have effects, they will have to act through receptors on the surface of cells or will have to be actively transported to the inside of cells. I don't know if either of these mechanisms have been found or proven, but perhaps this is the direction of future research.

Anyway, just some ideas for thoughts or discussion...

[LegalGear]

Originally Posted by Mixelflick

Hello again LG

The improvement over prior generations is primarily related to ecdysterone source. Rhaponticum Carthamoides is the reference standard if you will, with the bulk of human research. RC was in fact, the original compound the Soviet Ekdisten drug was derived from.

Prior generation Ecdy's were derived from the much cheaper Suma, Pfaffia Paniculata (Suma, different name) or cyanotis vaga. 20-hydroxyecdysterone was what they were looking for and I share your opinion it is worthless orally, works well transdermally. There have been 400+ other ecdysterones identified. The ones I feel work well orally are cyasterone, ponasterone, turkesterone to name a few. They are all included in RC extract and appear in precise ratios together referred to as "levsins" in the research.

They keep reappearing because the consumer feels something over time, albeit nothing dramatic like PH. Given the mode of action is likely incorporation into the cell membrane a la fish oil, this isn't surprising. For many of us, they work well and greatly reduce DOMS, add that extra rep and up total workload capacity during the workout. If you get a good RC extract, dose it hard and pick up some urinary testing strips for protein excretion, you'll see what I'm talking about.

I think you did a nice job with dermasize, for what it's worth. It's hard to overcome "bro-telligence" though on BB.com when everyone tries to compares it to Superdrol.

Hey my man! Good to see you. Yeah, Dermasize would do well against any product out on the market today. It just didn't compare to SuperD or M1Test. Plus, you had Pat Arnold do a hatchet job on it and our reputation. Interestingly enough users reported 4-6lbs with one bottle of Dermasize and it still has many fans.

We disagree about the oral versions and where they come from. I don't think the RC extract is any better orally than the Suma or any others, but that is my oppinion and I could of course be wrong.

That brings me to a serious point. NO ONE IS ALWAYS RIGHT...not me, certainly not that louse Pat Arnold...no one. We can all learn from each other and we have a lot to offer.

Methyl 1-D and the Androsterone derivitives all came to me and Seth from a question from a layperson He said "can't you put a 17aMethyl on DHEA?" No, but you can do a lot of other things like change the function, attach esters and change the structure, which was the basis of our patent.

[slow-mun]

Is Seth Roberts still doing most of the designing for you? Just wondering, b/c he's been behind some great things.

[icanrace]

I am a fan of E-bol personally..........

[Distilled Water]

I posted this before I was a rep for the record but I used Dermasize during a PCT back in the day and I thought it was solid. I kept all the weight I put on during cycle and strength contnued to climb...

Cycle was Masterdrol and M1P cycle (18lbs!!)

PCT was Low dose Nolva, Formadrol, Trib, ZMA and Dermasize

[Mixelflick]

Originally Posted by LegalGear

Hey my man! Good to see you. Yeah, Dermasize would do well against any product out on the market today. It just didn't compare to SuperD or M1Test. Plus, you had Pat Arnold do a hatchet job on it and our reputation. Interestingly enough users reported 4-6lbs with one bottle of Dermasize and it still has many fans.

We disagree about the oral versions and where they come from. I don't think the RC extract is any better orally than the Suma or any others, but that is my oppinion and I could of course be wrong.

That brings me to a serious point. NO ONE IS ALWAYS RIGHT...not me, certainly not that louse Pat Arnold...no one. We can all learn from each other and we have a lot to offer.

Methyl 1-D and the Androsterone derivitives all came to me and Seth from a question from a layperson He said "can't you put a 17aMethyl on DHEA?" No, but you can do a lot of other things like change the function, attach esters and change the structure, which was the basis of our patent.

Nice to see you here too. It sure beats BB.com and bro-telligence.

Ah, transdermal ecdy. Yours truly once ran 2g/day with "rose scented" dmso cream. Covered the entire body. Lost a lot of friends but recovered damn quickly from my workouts.

[LegalGear]

Originally Posted by slow-mun

Is Seth Roberts still doing most of the designing for you? Just wondering, b/c he's been behind some great things.

No, we are still friends, but he is working on other projects.

[jjohn]

I have to say that I tried about 7 different products in that dept. and the only one that did something was e-bol. But it is probably not even the ecdy that had the effects...

[bioman]

I get a small boost in endurance and recovery from ecdy products as well as a minor increase in N retention/muscle fullness. Nice effects but it doesn't justify the price for me most of the time. If I go on a big hiking spree, then I stock up on it.

I'd be curious to see how the trans version pans out.