otc post cycle therapy question

[CoachT]

I have been doing a lot of research on OTC post cycle therapy. I found some studies on Novedex xt showing that it increased t levels significantly. It seems that most people are of the belief that if someone did a three week twenty mg regimen of m-drol Novedex xt would not be sufficient for estrogen control and test boosting abilites. Why is this so if the studies show such a dramatic increase in t levels? In addition I was wondering if Dermacrine Sustain would be a better OTC post cycle therapy alternative? This is my first post by the way so if I didn't post correctly I apologize in advance.

Novedex XT Clinical Trial
OHIO RESEARCH GROUP
Ziegenfuss T.N., Mendel R.W., and Hofheins J.E. Safety and Efficacy of a Naturally-Occurring, Orally Administered, Aromatase Inhibitor in Healthy Men. Ohio Research Group of Exercise Science and Sports Nutrition. Wadsworth, Ohio 44281, USA. [email protected]his email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it

Rationale: In healthy men, it is known that blocking estrogen formation stimulates the HPT axis to increase in vivo testosterone production. Recently, a new class of dietary supplements has appeared that claim to inhibit the aromatase enzyme (i.e., decrease the transformation of aromatizable androgens [androstenedione, DHEA, testosterone] into estrogens [estriol, estrone, estradiol]), thus stimulating an increase in testosterone formation.

Purpose: The purpose of this pilot study was to examine the effects of a popular aromatase inhibitor, Novedex XTÔ (NOV-XT), on selected hormonal responses (total testosterone [TT], bioavailable testosterone [BT] and estradiol [E2]), as well as serum and plasma markers of renal, hepatic, and hematological function.

Methods: Using an open-label, proof-of-concept design, five eugonadal men (mean ± superdrol age, height, weight, body fat: 31.6 ± 2.8 yr, 174.3 ± 1.8 cm, 84.3 ± 3.8 kg, 11.2 ± 3.3 %) ingested 4 capsules of NOV-XT prior to bed for 28 consecutive days. According to the manufacturer, each capsule of NOV-XT contains 60 mg of a proprietary blend of three naturally-occurring aromatase inhibitors: 6, 17-keto-etiocholeve-3-ol tetrahydropyranol, 3, 17-keto-etiochol-triene, and 3’,5,7-trihydroxy-4’-methoxyflavone (supplements were provided by an FDA-registered, pharmaceutically licensed manufacturer; confirmation by an external laboratory is pending). Blood samples obtained at baseline (prior to supplementation), and at weekly intervals thereafter for 28 days, were analyzed for TT, BT, and E2 by radioimmunometric and chemilluminetric assays. Subjects were required to maintain their normal dietary and training patterns during the study. All blood samples were obtained at the same time of day (0700-0900) to minimize diurnal variation. Hormone concentrations were statistically analyzed by ANOVA and Tukey’s HSD post-hoc test. Dependent t-tests were used to compare changes in blood chemistries. Statistical significance was accepted at p<0.05.

Results: Compared to baseline, NOV-XT administration rapidly and significantly increased TT and BT. Mean changes from baseline for TT after one, two, three, and four weeks of NOV-XT administration were: +145% (p<0.006), +183% (p<0.0005), +232% (p<0.0002), and +240% (p<0.0002), respectively. Mean changes from baseline for BT after one, two, three, and four weeks of NOV-XT administration were: +300% (p<0.01), +402% (p<0.0009), +511% (p<0.0002), and +528% (p<0.0002), respectively. Despite these large increases in TT and BT, no significant aromatization to estradiol occurred (i.e., E2 concentrations remained unchanged). No significant changes in clinical blood chemistries (fasting glucose, BUN, creatinine, bilirubin, alkaline phosphatase, aspartate aminotransferase, alanine aminotransferase, sodium, potassium, chloride, calcium, albumin, globulin, CO2, total protein, total cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL-cholesterol, LDL-cholesterol, VLDL-cholesterol) or systemic hemodynamics (heart rate, systolic blood pressure, diastolic blood pressure) were observed, nor were any adverse events noted during the study.

Variable Baseline Day 7 Day 14 Day 21 Day 28
Testosterone (ng/dL) 517 (162) 1265 (252) * 1515 (212) * 1714 (322) * 1758 (435) *
Bio T (ng/dL) 159 (57) 636 (265) * 798 (94) * 971 (226) * 998 (210) *
Estradiol (pg/mL) 22 (3) 19 (9) 16 (9) 19 (11) 19 (9)
Glucose (mg/dL) 90 (4) 87 (10)
BUN:Cr 17 (5) 17 (4)
Bilirubin (mg/dL) 0.8 (0.5) 0.9 (0.5)
ALP (IU/L) 84 (32) 67 (43)
AST (IU/L) 27 (7) 27 (8)
ALT (IU/L) 29 (11) 31 (15)
Chol (mg/dL) 156 (19) 163 (27)
TAG (mg/dL) 74 (22) 72 (19)
HDL (mg/dL) 54 (3) 51 (9)
LDL (mg/dL) 87 (18) 97 (20)
SBP (mm Hg) 124 (5) 124 (11)
DBP (mm Hg) 75 (6) 74 (14)


Data are reported as mean (± superdrol). * indicates significantly different from corresponding baseline value. Bio T = bioavailable (free+weekly bound) testosterone, BUN:Cr = blood urea nitrogen:creatinine ratio, ALP = alkaline phosphatase, AST = aspartate aminotransferase, ALT = alanine aminotransferase, Chol = total cholesterol, TAG = triglycerides, HDL = high density lipoprotein, LDL = low density lipoprotein, SBP = systolic blood pressure, DBP = diastolic blood pressure.

Conclusions: Within the framework of the current experimental design, these preliminary data indicate that four weeks of NOV-XT supplementation significantly elevates serum TT and BT, likely via the inhibition of estradiol formation. Further, NOV-XT does not appear to result in any deleterious effects on blood chemistry or systemic hemodynamics in healthy, eugonadal men. Future research is necessary to confirm and refine these results in a larger sample size, as well as examine the impact of NOV-XT on androgenic and estrogenic metabolites, body composition, and muscular performance. Supported in part by a research grant from Gaspari Nutrition (Neptune, NJ).

 

[SgtP]

novedex isnt enough alone from what ive read. you need a SERM.

"Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators are (and damn well should be) the foundation for any proper post-cycle therapy plan. A post cycle therapy plan without them, isn't a post cycle therapy plan: it's a bunch of crap you decided to take after doing a cycle. The purpose of a SERM is to block the negative effects estrogen, while your hormone levels go back to equilibrium."

 

[nosnmiveins]

a good OTC SERM-like supp is Post Cycle Support...

 

[SgtP]

thats one of the better ones out there for sure. i would use it during and after.

 

[matthew76]

PCS is a great PCT supplement. Derm. Sustain is also a very strong option.

 

[slow-mun]

PCS is a great post cycle therapy supplement. Derm. Sustain is also a very strong option.

Agreed, I had success with Dermacine Sustain in PCT.

 

[lennoxchi]

coach are you stating that you are against using i SERM? i don't believe that's what you're saying, just curios. theres a lot of good OTC stuff for PCT, but here's the thing when your body goes to even out your test, and estrogen levels sky rocket, possibly inducing gyno related issues i.e. (bi**h tits) your going to want a SERM. reason being, you do not really want to kill the estrogen in your body, you just don't want it to adromize (i don't think i spelled that correctly). so a good SERM like Torm, or Nolvadex (notice the spelling) Nolvadex, will accomplish that for you until you are able to get your test levels back to normal. there's WAY MORE experienced people on this board that hopefully "chime in" but thats the easiest way i can explain it.

 

[sweetdaddy]

Also, noVEdex (atd) may raise testosterone levels in people with normal healthy testosterone by stopping that testosterone from converting to estrogen. In the case of shomeone who is coming off a cycle of superdrol or another such compound, frequently the body has stopped producing testosterone altgether, so an anti-aromatase isn't going to be enough, because there isn't enough circulating testosterone for it to have its effect on.
IMHO

 

[Aggravated]

I wouldn't waste my time with otc SERM like products. Get yourself the real deal just to be safe bro.

 

[matthew76]

I have to disagree... Post cyle therapy is dependent on what compound is/was used. SERM's are dangerous for the fact that you do not truely know what the said compound really is. Over the counter post cycle therapy is moving in the right direction at this moment. And plus AGG, it's recommended that a person use Formadrol after certain LG cycle's... Is that not an over the counter post cycle therapy?

I wouldn't waste my time with otc SERM like products. Get yourself the real deal just to be safe bro.

 

[krogtaar]

coach are you stating that you are against using i SERM? i don't believe that's what you're saying, just curios. theres a lot of good OTC stuff for post cycle therapy, but here's the thing when your body goes to even out your test, and estrogen levels sky rocket, possibly inducing gyno related issues i.e. (bi**h tits) your going to want a SERM. reason being, you do not really want to kill the estrogen in your body, you just don't want it to adromize (i don't think i spelled that correctly). so a good SERM like Torm, or Nolvadex (notice the spelling) Nolvadex, will accomplish that for you until you are able to get your test levels back to normal. there's WAY MORE experienced people on this board that hopefully "chime in" but thats the easiest way i can explain it.

wow...never did so well in organic chem huh?

i'd go with a real serm for anything other than really light cycles. Im considering doing a 4 week pulse of havoc with resveratrol, and quitting if I have made some decent games at that point, then doing it again after 4-6 weeks

 

[Aggravated]

I have to disagree... Post cyle therapy is dependent on what compound is/was used. SERM's are dangerous for the fact that you do not truely know what the said compound really is. Over the counter post cycle therapy is moving in the right direction at this moment. And plus AGG, it's recommended that a person use Formadrol after certain LG cycle's... Is that not an over the counter post cycle therapy?

By this you are saying that Novadex XT is a proper post cycle therapy, for a compound (which neither of us know is) that obviously requires post cycle therapy? If it did not require PCT, then he would not be asking about it.

Before we get into that let's ask Coach what he is planning on running before we get ahead of ourselves.

I know that OTC post cycle therapy is moving in the right direction, but if someone tells me they are going to run a Superdrol cycle, biased or not I will not tell him that Novadex XT will be the end all be all for his PCT regimen.

 

[matthew76]

I am not an advocate of Noveldex XT, nor have I ever been. So NO, I am not saying this, nor did I say this. My recommendations for over the counter Post cycle therapy are Derm Sustain, and/or Post Cycle Support. Noveldex XT has not been apart of my vocabulary, and will never be.

By this you are saying that Novadex XT is a proper post cycle therapy, for a compound (which neither of us know is) that obviously requires post cycle therapy? If it did not require post cycle therapy, then he would not be asking about it.

Before we get into that let's ask Coach what he is planning on running before we get ahead of ourselves.

I know that OTC post cycle therapy is moving in the right direction, but if someone tells me they are going to run a Superdrol cycle, biased or not I will not tell him that Novadex XT will be the end all be all for his PCT regimen.

 

[Aggravated]

Noveldex XT has not been apart of my vocabulary, and will never be.

Good lol.

 

[t3stxlr4titud]

I would opt for the SERM

-TF

 

[CoachT]

OTC post cycle therapy question

Thanks for all the great input. I'm in the military and thats why I need to stay away from the serms. I Need to find the best OTC post cycle products that will be suitable for the stronger componds like M-drol or I will just have to stick with the lighter ones like Epistane if there are just none available. Another reason I originally looked into Novedex Xt is that along with 6 oxo they were the only supplements that I have seen that have had independent clinicical studies done. The novedex showed higher increases in testosterone levels. I had look into the PCS and Dermacrine Sustain and from what I have been reading is that both share Trans-Resveratrol, but Dermacrine Sustain might be better because this component is absorbed better through the skin compared to orally. Its to bad that nobody has done any blood work with Sustain or PCS after some of the harsher compounds out there

 

[poopypants]

Thanks for all the great input. I'm in the military and thats why I need to stay away from the serms. I Need to find the best OTC post cycle products that will be suitable for the stronger componds like M-drol or I will just have to stick with the lighter ones like Epistane if there are just none available. Another reason I originally looked into Novedex Xt is that along with 6 oxo they were the only supplements that I have seen that have had independent clinicical studies done. The novedex showed higher increases in testosterone levels. I had look into the PCS and Dermacrine Sustain and from what I have been reading is that both share Trans-Resveratrol, but Dermacrine Sustain might be better because this component is absorbed better through the skin compared to orally. Its to bad that nobody has done any blood work with Sustain or PCS after some of the harsher compounds out there

my freind Easyejl is bout to finish a 1-test and superdrol cycle and will be basing his pct on dermacrine sustain, he already has his base line blood levels and said he will be getting it done again after pct. guess youl get to see what you asked for eh?

 

[Aggravated]

my freind Easyejl is bout to finish a 1-test and superdrol cycle and will be basing his post cycle therapy on dermacrine sustain, he already has his base line blood levels and said he will be getting it done again after post cycle therapy. guess youl get to see what you asked for eh?

I think someone said something about that before. I will be looking forward to subscribing to it. I would really like us to find a reliable/legal source for PCT.

 

[matthew76]

I've used Derm. Sustain for my last post cycle therapy... bloodwork came back great!

 

[poopypants]

I've used Derm. Sustain for my last post cycle therapy... bloodwork came back great!

what kind of cycle was it and what else did you take through your pct?

 

[CoachT]

OTC post cycle therapy question

looking forward to Easyejl's results. This will surely help me with my decision, and I'm sure many others out there. Thanks for the reply pp's

 

[matthew76]

Methyl Extreme (PH) Including support supplements.

(Post cycle therapy)
Derm. Sustain
E-Form
X-Lean
Drive

what kind of cycle was it and what else did you take through your post cycle therapy?

 

[poopypants]

Methyl Extreme (PH) Including support supplements.

(Post cycle therapy)
Derm. Sustain
E-Form
X-Lean
Drive

niiiice. how did you like the methyl extreme? compared to other ph's and pro-steroids?

did you get blood done mid way (after cycle before pct) to see how suppressed you even were?

 

[matthew76]

I actually enjoyed the cycle... And yes, labs were done before, half, and after PCT. It's all posted in my "To the Extreme" log in the supplement review section. Aggression was off the chain while I was on it, too!

niiiice. how did you like the methyl extreme? compared to other ph's and pro-steroids?

did you get blood done mid way (after cycle before post cycle therapy) to see how suppressed you even were?

 

[poopypants]

I actually enjoyed the cycle... And yes, labs were done before, half, and after post cycle therapy. It's all posted in my "To the Extreme" log in the supplement review section. Aggression was off the chain while I was on it, too!

great ill have to check it out :thumbsup:

 

[SgtP]

Thanks for all the great input. I'm in the military and thats why I need to stay away from the serms. I Need to find the best OTC post cycle products that will be suitable for the stronger componds like M-drol or I will just have to stick with the lighter ones like Epistane if there are just none available. Another reason I originally looked into Novedex Xt is that along with 6 oxo they were the only supplements that I have seen that have had independent clinicical studies done. The novedex showed higher increases in testosterone levels. I had look into the PCS and Dermacrine Sustain and from what I have been reading is that both share Trans-Resveratrol, but Dermacrine Sustain might be better because this component is absorbed better through the skin compared to orally. Its to bad that nobody has done any blood work with Sustain or PCS after some of the harsher compounds out there

why would being in the military effect your ability to be on a SERM?

 

[CoachT]

OTC post cycle therapy question

From what I gather its up in the air whether these legal prohormones are legal for military use. If by the rare chance I was accused of being on steroids and had to take a piss test(which with my skinny *** build is about impossible) I could show them that I bought the supplements legally. Having a serm in my system without a prescription would be serious trouble. Can't play the dumb card on that one.

 

[Aggravated]

From what I gather its up in the air whether these legal prohormones are legal for military use. If by the rare chance I was accused of being on steroids and had to take a piss test(which with my skinny *** build is about impossible) I could show them that I bought the supplements legally. Having a serm in my system without a prescription would be serious trouble. Can't play the dumb card on that one.

Buy it from a source that makes the chems look legal. That way you can play dumb when they ask you about where you bought it. Also, you can pull a Barry Bonds when you are on the stand haha! "I Didn't take no sterids! Them was transdermal BCAAs!"

 

[ImJ2x]

One OTC PCT product that I think gets overlooked here is 6oxoExtreme. Like SustainAlpha and PostCycleSupport, it contains the light SERM Resveratrol, but it also adds the light AI 6oxo, making it a fairly complete PCT product, at least for today's lighter pulse cycles. It is fairly expensive though.

 

[CROWLER]

I am finishing an Epi pulse my OTC is POST Cycle Support and my strength is still up, libido is way up and so is body weight.

Here are more who are using OTC POST Cycle Support for an Mdrol and Testabolon cycle.

Time To Put Trans-Resveratrol to the test - Bodybuilding.com Forums

Another person using it for Phera Plex.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabolic-innovations/80138-life-support.html

All of these are people who have posted on their own and have no connection with Anabolic Innovations. They actually paid for their own supps, not supplied by a sponsor.


CROWLER

 

[Irish Cannon]

Either Tamoxifen (40/40/20/20) or Toremifene (120(Days 1-3)/60 (days 4-7)/30/30) should be the base of any post cycle therapy. Anything else is just extra. I've always liked a low dose of ATD (25mg) in addition to the serms. I'll be using Tamoxifen and E-form in my next post cycle therapy.

 

[shnitzel]

I was in the Marines years ago, and if someone was jealous of the way you were bulking up, or just didn't like you...an anonymous tip was all it would take to get you a piss test..
Now honestly, I don't remember it happening in our unit, as I was in the Infantry, and our schedules were not very conducive to a healthy lifting regime. But I did hear about it in other units..and hearsay is hearsay, but I would definitely be cautious. You can go get shot for Uncle Sam, but how dare you look good for the beach. That UCMJ is a real beetch. And the last time I checked...there was no gym in the brig.
Another problem I would assume is procuring a SERM. For people like me who lift old school...in the basement, contact with gym rats is nil..so anything questionable is out of the question. I posted on here once about just the legality of ordering a prescription based SERM and the question was deleted before I could even see the replies. How's that for info..I just wanted a link to a drug schedule or something like that, I can do my own research..most of the time...but around here..it's hard to get.
I'll be following this thread to see what your choice is.
Good luck to you.
mike

 

[CROWLER]

He is asking for OTC not research chems


CROWLER

 

[Aggravated]

Hence the name of the thread. I think he stated that he did not want to foll with chems, because of the fear or what have you of getting into trouble for it. Matt suggested a good OTC PCT earlier.

 

[matthew76]

Some people can not help but to put their opinions in no matter what...

Post Cycle Support
Derm. Sustain
E-Form

Works great for me! Hell, I have yet to have one bloodwork come back even close to questionable.

He is asking for OTC not research chems


CROWLER

 

[Irish Cannon]

Isn't it Sustain Alpha now?

 

[Irish Cannon]

He is asking for OTC not research chems


CROWLER

Sorry. I see a thread for post cycle therapy and automaticaly feel the need to type in a SERM and the dosage that should be taken. Kind of a habit.

 

[CROWLER]

lol yea I understand. Actually as PA says Trans-Resveratrol is a SERM and POST Cycle Support has Trans-Resveratrol in it at a very good dose.


CROWLER

 

[heebs10]

I have been doing a lot of research on OTC post cycle therapy. I found some studies on Novedex xt showing that it increased t levels significantly. It seems that most people are of the belief that if someone did a three week twenty mg regimen of m-drol Novedex xt would not be sufficient for estrogen control and test boosting abilites. Why is this so if the studies show such a dramatic increase in t levels? In addition I was wondering if Dermacrine Sustain would be a better OTC post cycle therapy alternative? This is my first post by the way so if I didn't post correctly I apologize in advance.

Novedex XT Clinical Trial
OHIO RESEARCH GROUP
Ziegenfuss T.N., Mendel R.W., and Hofheins J.E. Safety and Efficacy of a Naturally-Occurring, Orally Administered, Aromatase Inhibitor in Healthy Men. Ohio Research Group of Exercise Science and Sports Nutrition. Wadsworth, Ohio 44281, USA. [email protected]his email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it

Rationale: In healthy men, it is known that blocking estrogen formation stimulates the HPT axis to increase in vivo testosterone production. Recently, a new class of dietary supplements has appeared that claim to inhibit the aromatase enzyme (i.e., decrease the transformation of aromatizable androgens [androstenedione, DHEA, testosterone] into estrogens [estriol, estrone, estradiol]), thus stimulating an increase in testosterone formation.

Purpose: The purpose of this pilot study was to examine the effects of a popular aromatase inhibitor, Novedex XTÔ (NOV-XT), on selected hormonal responses (total testosterone [TT], bioavailable testosterone [BT] and estradiol [E2]), as well as serum and plasma markers of renal, hepatic, and hematological function.

Methods: Using an open-label, proof-of-concept design, five eugonadal men (mean ± superdrol age, height, weight, body fat: 31.6 ± 2.8 yr, 174.3 ± 1.8 cm, 84.3 ± 3.8 kg, 11.2 ± 3.3 %) ingested 4 capsules of NOV-XT prior to bed for 28 consecutive days. According to the manufacturer, each capsule of NOV-XT contains 60 mg of a proprietary blend of three naturally-occurring aromatase inhibitors: 6, 17-keto-etiocholeve-3-ol tetrahydropyranol, 3, 17-keto-etiochol-triene, and 3’,5,7-trihydroxy-4’-methoxyflavone (supplements were provided by an FDA-registered, pharmaceutically licensed manufacturer; confirmation by an external laboratory is pending). Blood samples obtained at baseline (prior to supplementation), and at weekly intervals thereafter for 28 days, were analyzed for TT, BT, and E2 by radioimmunometric and chemilluminetric assays. Subjects were required to maintain their normal dietary and training patterns during the study. All blood samples were obtained at the same time of day (0700-0900) to minimize diurnal variation. Hormone concentrations were statistically analyzed by ANOVA and Tukey’s HSD post-hoc test. Dependent t-tests were used to compare changes in blood chemistries. Statistical significance was accepted at p<0.05.

Results: Compared to baseline, NOV-XT administration rapidly and significantly increased TT and BT. Mean changes from baseline for TT after one, two, three, and four weeks of NOV-XT administration were: +145% (p<0.006), +183% (p<0.0005), +232% (p<0.0002), and +240% (p<0.0002), respectively. Mean changes from baseline for BT after one, two, three, and four weeks of NOV-XT administration were: +300% (p<0.01), +402% (p<0.0009), +511% (p<0.0002), and +528% (p<0.0002), respectively. Despite these large increases in TT and BT, no significant aromatization to estradiol occurred (i.e., E2 concentrations remained unchanged). No significant changes in clinical blood chemistries (fasting glucose, BUN, creatinine, bilirubin, alkaline phosphatase, aspartate aminotransferase, alanine aminotransferase, sodium, potassium, chloride, calcium, albumin, globulin, CO2, total protein, total cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL-cholesterol, LDL-cholesterol, VLDL-cholesterol) or systemic hemodynamics (heart rate, systolic blood pressure, diastolic blood pressure) were observed, nor were any adverse events noted during the study.

Variable Baseline Day 7 Day 14 Day 21 Day 28
Testosterone (ng/dL) 517 (162) 1265 (252) * 1515 (212) * 1714 (322) * 1758 (435) *
Bio T (ng/dL) 159 (57) 636 (265) * 798 (94) * 971 (226) * 998 (210) *
Estradiol (pg/mL) 22 (3) 19 (9) 16 (9) 19 (11) 19 (9)
Glucose (mg/dL) 90 (4) 87 (10)
BUN:Cr 17 (5) 17 (4)
Bilirubin (mg/dL) 0.8 (0.5) 0.9 (0.5)
ALP (IU/L) 84 (32) 67 (43)
AST (IU/L) 27 (7) 27 (8)
ALT (IU/L) 29 (11) 31 (15)
Chol (mg/dL) 156 (19) 163 (27)
TAG (mg/dL) 74 (22) 72 (19)
HDL (mg/dL) 54 (3) 51 (9)
LDL (mg/dL) 87 (18) 97 (20)
SBP (mm Hg) 124 (5) 124 (11)
DBP (mm Hg) 75 (6) 74 (14)


Data are reported as mean (± superdrol). * indicates significantly different from corresponding baseline value. Bio T = bioavailable (free+weekly bound) testosterone, BUN:Cr = blood urea nitrogen:creatinine ratio, ALP = alkaline phosphatase, AST = aspartate aminotransferase, ALT = alanine aminotransferase, Chol = total cholesterol, TAG = triglycerides, HDL = high density lipoprotein, LDL = low density lipoprotein, SBP = systolic blood pressure, DBP = diastolic blood pressure.

Conclusions: Within the framework of the current experimental design, these preliminary data indicate that four weeks of NOV-XT supplementation significantly elevates serum TT and BT, likely via the inhibition of estradiol formation. Further, NOV-XT does not appear to result in any deleterious effects on blood chemistry or systemic hemodynamics in healthy, eugonadal men. Future research is necessary to confirm and refine these results in a larger sample size, as well as examine the impact of NOV-XT on androgenic and estrogenic metabolites, body composition, and muscular performance. Supported in part by a research grant from Gaspari Nutrition (Neptune, NJ).

sure an AI will increase test production to some degree. BUT a blood test cant differentiate ATD(active AI in novedex xt) from testosterone, making it seem as if there is a greater increase in natural test when in actuality there is some increase in test but the rest of the increase is attributed to circulating metabolites of ATD. i think....

 

[ImJ2x]

lol yea I understand. Actually as PA says Trans-Resveratrol is a SERM and POST Cycle Support has Trans-Resveratrol in it at a very good dose.


CROWLER

Yeah -- I saw PA over on "the other board" pimping his 6oxoExtreme by saying "like CROWLER says, Trans Resveratrol actually is a SERM."



jk, hehe

 

[CoachT]

OTC post cycle therapy question

lots of good opinions on this thread. It's been imformative. Thanks for all who have contributed. I hope more people chime in with their experiences with Trans-Resveratrol.

 

[poopypants]

lots of good opinions on this thread. It's been imformative. Thanks for all who have contributed. I hope more people chime in with their experiences with Trans-Resveratrol.

honestly it will be fairly limited since trans res has only been used in this manner for a short time... your best bet is to check those links crowler posted and then ill post a link when Easy starts his PCT log so you can catch that and the blood on it as well. trans res is promising but still hasnt been weidely used yet.

 

[nottus]

post cycle therapy and an atd?

so what is the verdict on using a product like post cycle therapy and an atd product together for pct?

 

[ImJ2x]

ATD basically eliminates all estrogens, destroying your libido in the process. And I don't know what kind of cycle you're on, but if it's Superdrol, ATD seems to be the common link that may be responsible for SD's delayed gyno (surely from estro "rebound").
Instead of ATD, I'd recommend a light AI like 6oxo or 6bromo (Hyperdrol 2). Like I mentioned before, Ergopharm's 6oxoExtreme contains both the Trans-Res SERM and 6oxo AI. I find the product intriguing, but very pricey.

 

[CoachT]

I am also anxious to here the opinions of the experts on whether an atd product like Novedex Xt would be useful with either Sustain Alpha or PCS. If so how would they be dosed together.

 

[poopypants]

i think ATD at the commonly recommended dose is the problem for some, i think that 25-50mg ed is a much more suitable dose and wont absolutely dry you out.

 

[nottus]

superdrol otc post cycle therapy

Well after doing a lot of research the past month or so i think i have pieced together a fairly good otc pct . I will be finishing up a 3 week sd 10/10/10 and halo 50/50/50 cycle this tuesday. I started off at 173.5 pounds and as of today after my workout I weighed in at exactly 183.5 so 10 pounds up in three weeks and feeling really hard. After alot of reading I decided to stop a week early after reading alot about how the 4th week on superdrol does not really do much more than cause possibly more damage to the liver so i figure stop now or maybe even taper off? Any input on that...tapering off say 5mg sd and 25mg halo a day for the last week any benefit from this to get ready for pct and getting the natural test ready to start back up? By the way even as of today no real noticeable shrinkage of the boys anyway does this mean my natural test really never fully shut down? Any way back to the original reason for this post....I am going to run 6-oxo extreme for 15 days along with retain and milk thistle as well as coq10 possibly fenugreek but from what i have read does not seem to backed by much evidence that it works then again neither does trans reservatol either oh well I hope to keep my weight above 180 as i would consider this a great success!! I will keep an update of my progress on here as I go , hopefully this will help some others on here. As for other supplements along the way i will continue on bsn syntha 6, 3x day mri no2 2x day , 9 grams leucine 200mg caffeine preworkout and glutamine 5grams 3x daily , I will also resume 5 grams creatine 2x daily again in post cycle to keep the weight up hopefully as well as omega fatty acids and a multi. We will see i will keep it posted!!!

 

[CROWLER]

Here is another person who used POST Cycle Support for their PCT.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabolic-innovations/80138-life-support-2.html


CROWLER

 

[poopypants]

Well after doing a lot of research the past month or so i think i have pieced together a fairly good otc post cycle therapy . I will be finishing up a 3 week superdrol 10/10/10 and halo 50/50/50 cycle this tuesday. I started off at 173.5 pounds and as of today after my workout I weighed in at exactly 183.5 so 10 pounds up in three weeks and feeling really hard. After alot of reading I decided to stop a week early after reading alot about how the 4th week on superdrol does not really do much more than cause possibly more damage to the liver so i figure stop now or maybe even taper off? Any input on that...tapering off say 5mg superdrol and 25mg halo a day for the last week any benefit from this to get ready for post cycle therapy and getting the natural test ready to start back up? By the way even as of today no real noticeable shrinkage of the boys anyway does this mean my natural test really never fully shut down? Any way back to the original reason for this post....I am going to run 6-oxo extreme for 15 days along with retain and milk thistle as well as coq10 possibly fenugreek but from what i have read does not seem to backed by much evidence that it works then again neither does trans reservatol either oh well I hope to keep my weight above 180 as i would consider this a great success!! I will keep an update of my progress on here as I go , hopefully this will help some others on here. As for other supplements along the way i will continue on bsn syntha 6, 3x day mri no2 2x day , 9 grams leucine 200mg caffeine preworkout and glutamine 5grams 3x daily , I will also resume 5 grams creatine 2x daily again in post cycle to keep the weight up hopefully as well as omega fatty acids and a multi. We will see i will keep it posted!!!

just stick with the regular dosage for your last week your not going to gain anything by lowering the dosage for the last week and just cause someone else stopped making gains week 3 doesnt mean you will as well. 4 weeks is VERY reasonable as far as your liver is concerned at this point and its not going to do tons more damage, especially at such a conservative dose. sounds like you had a great cycle though so keep it up this last week and make sure to up your cals into post cycle therapy to maintain your new weight.

 

[ImJ2x]

The one thing I'd add concerns Superdrol's notorious massacre of your lipids (cholesterol levels). Even at only 10mgs, after 3-4 weeks your LDL (bad cholesterol) is probably too high, and your HDL (good cholesterol) is certainly too low. Look into Anabolic Innovation's Cycle Support, or simply pick up some Niacin (make sure it's nicotinic acid) and/or policosanol. Dose them according to the label recommendations (not higher). Be aware that nicotinic acid has a severe "flush" effect that lasts up to an hour. I take mine before bed (so I'm not walking around in public looking like I have the worst sunburn ever). And always take it with food to drastically reduce the flush. A little policosanol in the morning, and some nicotinic acid at night should restore your lipids nicely. Good luck.