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Abolishing Ageing: How to Live Forever

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    Abolishing Ageing: How to Live Forever


    This is not a typical "supplement" article, but it is nonetheless an interesting read. This article is from the latest print edition of the authoritative newspaper, The Economist. For some, The Economist may not be an obvious address for such an article, but the newspaper has international recognition for its authoritative, objective, and in-depth reserach. If you have the time to read the entire article, you might find one insight or the other. Be warned: The article is long! The advantage, though, is that it is written in simple, non-technical language. Enjoyable!

    Abolishing Ageing
    How to live forever


    Jan 3rd 2008

    From The Economist print edition

    It looks unlikely that medical science will abolish the process of ageing. But it no longer looks impossible
    “IN THE long run,” as John Maynard Keynes observed, “we are all dead.” True. But can the short run be elongated in a way that makes the long run longer? And if so, how, and at what cost? People have dreamt of immortality since time immemorial. They have sought it since the first alchemist put an elixir of life on the same shopping list as a way to turn lead into gold. They have written about it in fiction, from Rider Haggard's “She” to Frank Herbert's “Dune”. And now, with the growth of biological knowledge that has marked the past few decades, a few researchers believe it might be within reach.
    To think about the question, it is important to understand why organisms—people included—age in the first place. People are like machines: they wear out. That much is obvious. However a machine can always be repaired. A good mechanic with a stock of spare parts can keep it going indefinitely. Eventually, no part of the original may remain, but it still carries on, like Lincoln's famous axe that had had three new handles and two new blades.

    The question, of course, is whether the machine is worth repairing. It is here that people and nature disagree. Or, to put it slightly differently, two bits of nature disagree with each other. From the individual's point of view, survival is an imperative. You cannot reproduce unless you are alive. A fear of death is a sensible evolved response and, since ageing is a sure way of dying, it is no surprise that people want to stop it in its tracks. Moreover, even the appearance of ageing can be harmful. It reduces the range of potential sexual partners who find you attractive—since it is a sign that you are not going to be around all that long to help bring up baby—and thus, again, curbs your reproduction.

    The paradox is that the individual's evolved desire not to age is opposed by another evolutionary force: the disposable soma. The soma (the ancient Greek word for body) is all of a body's cells apart from the sex cells. The soma's role is to get those sex cells, and thus the organism's genes, into the next generation. If the soma is a chicken, then it really is just an egg's way of making another egg. And if evolutionary logic requires the soma to age and die in order for this to happen, so be it. Which is a pity, for evolutionary logic does, indeed, seem to require that.

    The argument is this. All organisms are going to die of something eventually. That something may be an accident, a fight, a disease or an encounter with a hungry predator. There is thus a premium on reproducing early rather than conserving resources for a future that may never come. The reason why repairs are not perfect is that they are costly and resources invested in them might be used for reproduction instead. Often, therefore, the body's mechanics prefer lash-ups to complete rebuilds—or simply do not bother with the job at all. And if that is so, the place to start looking for longer life is in the repair shop.

    Seven deadly things
    One man who has done just that is Aubrey de Grey. Dr de Grey, who is an independent researcher working in Cambridge, England, is a man who provokes strong opinions. He is undoubtedly a visionary, but many biologists think that his visions are not so much insights as mischievous mirages, for he believes that anti-ageing technology could come about in a future that many now alive might live to see.
    Vision or mirage, Dr de Grey has defined the problem precisely. Unlike most workers in the field, he has an engineering background, and is thus ideally placed to look into the biological repair shop. As he sees things, ageing has seven components; deal with all seven, and you stop the process in its tracks. He refers to this approach as strategies for engineered negligible senescence (SENS).

    The seven sisters that Dr de Grey wishes to slaughter with SENS are cell loss, apoptosis-resistance (the tendency of cells to refuse to die when they are supposed to), gene mutations in the cell nucleus, gene mutations in the mitochondria (the cell's power-packs), the accumulation of junk inside cells, the accumulation of junk outside cells and the accumulation of inappropriate chemical links in the material that supports cells.
    It is quite a shopping list. But it does, at least, break the problem into manageable parts. It also suggests that multiple approaches to the question may be needed. Broadly, these are of two sorts: to manage the process of wear and tear to slow it down and mask its consequences, or to accept its inevitability and bring the body in for servicing at regular intervals to replace the worn-out parts.

    Eat up your greens
    Managing wear and tear may not be as complicated as it looks, for the last five items on Dr de Grey's list seem to be linked by a single word: oxidation. Regular visitors to the “health and beauty” sections of high-street pharmacies will, no doubt, have come across creams, pills and potions bearing the word antioxidant on their labels and hinting—though never, of course, explicitly saying—that they might possibly have rejuvenating effects. These products are the bastard children of a respectable idea about one of the chief causes of ageing: that one big source of bodily wear and tear, at least at the chemical level, is the activity of the mitochondria.
    Mitochondria are the places where sugar is broken down and reacted with oxygen to release the energy needed to power a cell. In a warm-blooded creature such as man, a lot of oxygen is involved in this process, and some of it goes absent without leave. Instead of reacting with carbon from the sugar to form carbon dioxide, it forms highly reactive molecules called free radicals. These go around oxidising—and thus damaging—other molecules, such as DNA and proteins, which causes all sorts of trouble. Clear up free radicals and their kin, and you will slow down the process of ageing. And the chemicals you use to do that are antioxidants.

    This idea goes back to one of the founders of scientific gerontology, Bruce Ames of the University of California, Berkeley. Dr Ames began his career studying cancer. He found that damage to certain genes was a cause of cancer. These genes evolved to keep tumours at bay by stopping cells dividing too readily, and the damage was often done by oxidation. Gradually, his focus shifted to the more general damage that oxidation can do—and what might, in turn, be done about it.

    Some vitamins, such as vitamin C, are antioxidants in their own right. This is the basis of the high-street propaganda, though there is no evidence that consuming such antioxidants in large quantities brings any benefit. A few years ago, however, Dr Ames found he could pep up the activity of the mitochondria of elderly rats—with positive effects on the animals' memories and general vigour—by feeding them two other molecules: acetyl carnitine and lipoic acid. These help a mitochondrial enzyme called carnitine acetyltransferase to do its job. Boosting their levels seems to compensate for oxidative damage to this enzyme. He also reviewed the work of other people and found about 50 genetic diseases caused by the failure of one enzyme or another to link up with an appropriate helper molecule. Such helpers are often B vitamins, and the diseases were often treatable with large doses of the appropriate vitamin.

    The enzyme damage in these diseases is similar to that induced by oxidation, so Dr Ames suspects that its effects, too, can be ameliorated by high doses of vitamins. He has gathered evidence from mice to support this idea, but whether it is the case in people has yet to be tested. Nor is it easy to believe it ever will be. The necessary clinical trials would be long-winded. They would also be expensive—and there is no reason for vitamin companies to pay for them since sales are already buoyant and the products could not be patented. Nor is Dr Ames claiming vitamins will make you live longer than a natural human lifespan, even if he thinks they might prolong many individual lives. For that, other technologies will need to be invoked.

    Stemming time's tide
    One way that might let people outlive the limit imposed by disposable somas is to accept the machine analogy literally. When you take your car to be serviced or repaired, you expect the mechanic to replace any worn or damaged parts with new ones. That, roughly, is what those proposing an idea called partial immortalisation are suggesting. And they will make the new parts with stem cells.

    The world has heard much of stem cells recently. They come in several varieties, from those found in embryos, which can turn into any sort of body cell, to those whose destiny is constrained to becoming just one or a few sorts of cell. The thing about stem cells of all types, which makes them different from ordinary body cells, is that they have special permission to multiply indefinitely.

    For a soma to work, most of its component cells have to accept they are the end of the line—which, given that that line in question stretches back unbroken to the first living organisms more than 3 billion years ago, is a hard thing to do. There are, therefore, all sorts of genetic locks on such cells to stop them reproducing once they have arrived at their physiological destination. If these locks are picked (for example by oxidative damage to the genes that control them, as discovered by Dr Ames), the result is unconstrained growth—in other words, cancer. One lock is called the Hayflick limit after its discoverer, Leonard Hayflick. This mechanism counts the number of times a cell divides and when a particular value (which differs from species to species) is reached, it stops any further division. Unless the cell is a stem cell. Every time a stem cell divides, at least one daughter remains a stem cell, even though the other may set off on a Hayflick-limited path of specialisation.

    Some partial immortalisers seek to abolish the Hayflick limit altogether in the hope that tissue that has become senescent will start to renew itself once more. (The clock that controls it is understood, so this is possible in principle.) Most, though, fear that this would simply open the door to cancer. Instead, they propose what is known as regenerative medicine—using stem cells to grow replacements for tissues and organs that have worn out. The most visionary of them contemplate the routine renewal of the body's organs in a Lincoln's axish sort of way.
    In theory, only the brain could not plausibly be replaced this way (any replacement would have to replicate the pattern of its nerve cells precisely in order to preserve an individual's memory and personality). Even here, though, stem-cell therapists talk openly of treating brain diseases such as Parkinson's with specially grown nerve cells, so some form of partial immortalisation might be on the cards. But it is a long way away—further, certainly, than Dr Ames's vitamin therapy, if that is shown to work.

    Neither prevention, nor repair, is truly ready to roll out. But there is one other approach, and this is based on the one way of living longer that has been shown, again and again, in animal experiments, to be effective. That is to eat less.
    From threadworms to mice, putting an animal on a diet that is near, but not quite at, starvation point prolongs life—sometimes dramatically. No one has done the experiment on people, and no one knows for sure why it works. But it does provide a way of studying the problem with the reasonable hope of finding an answer.

    Gluttons for punishment
    You would, of course, have to wish a lot for a long life to choose to starve yourself to achieve it. Extrapolating from the mouse data, you would need to keep your calorie intake to three-quarters of the amount recommended by dieticians. That means about 1,800 for sedentary men and 1,500 for sedentary women. But several people are trying to understand the underlying biology, in order to develop short cuts.
    One such is David Sinclair of Harvard University. Unlike those trying to fight the causes of ageing or to repair the damage done, Dr Sinclair thinks he has found, in caloric restriction as the technique is known, a specifically evolved natural anti-ageing mechanism that is quite compatible with disposable-soma theory.

    The reason for believing that prolonged life is an evolutionary response to starvation rather than just a weird accident is that when an animal is starving the evolutionary calculus changes. An individual that has starved to death is not one that can reproduce. Even if it does not die, the chance of it giving birth to healthy offspring is low. In this case, prolongation of life should trump reproduction. And that is what happens, even among people. Women who are starving stop ovulating. The billion-dollar trick would be to persuade the body it is starving when it is not. That way people could live longer while eating normally. They might even, if the mechanism can truly be understood, be able to reproduce, as well.

    In Dr Sinclair's view, the way caloric restriction prolongs life revolves around genes for proteins called sirtuins. Certainly, these genes are involved in life extension in simple species such as threadworms and yeast. Add extra copies of them to these organisms' chromosomes, or force the existing copies to produce more protein than normal, and life is prolonged. This seems to be because sirtuins control the abundance of a regulatory molecule called nicotinamide adenine diphosphate which, in turn, controls the release of energy in the mitochondria.

    The most intriguing connection in this story is with the French paradox. This is the fact that the French tend to eat fatty diets rich in red meat but to have the survival characteristics of those whose diets are lean and vegetarian. Some researchers link this with their consumption of red wine—and, in particular, of a molecule called resveratrol that is found in such wine. Resveratrol activates sirtuins, and some similar molecules activate them much more. It is these sirtuin super-stimulators that interest Dr Sinclair.

    Not everyone is convinced, but Dr Sinclair has done experiments on mice that look promising, and has started a company called Sirtris Pharmaceuticals to follow it up. The fact that he is (at least in his own eyes) working with nature rather than against it argues that this is the most promising approach of all.
    That said, the logic of the disposable-soma theory is profound. Even working with its grain may do no more than buy a few extra years of healthy living. Dr de Grey's reason for thinking that some people now alive may see their lives extended indefinitely is based on the hope that those few extra years will see further discoveries and improved life-extension technologies based on them—a process he describes as achieving “longevity escape velocity”.

    The chances are that it will not work. But hope springs eternal. To end with another quote, this time from Woody Allen, “I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve immortality through not dying.” If any researcher manages to beat evolutionary history and achieve his goal, he might get to do both.

    Abolishing ageing | How to live forever | Economist.com
    Last edited by strategicmove; 01-04-2008 at 10:06 AM.
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    Great article,thank you!
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    Good info. bro. The interesting more practical parts of the article are:


    A few years ago, however, Dr Ames found he could pep up the activity of the mitochondria of elderly rats—with positive effects on the animals' memories and general vigour—by feeding them two other molecules: acetyl carnitine and lipoic acid. These help a mitochondrial enzyme called carnitine acetyltransferase to do its job. Boosting their levels seems to compensate for oxidative damage to this enzyme. He also reviewed the work of other people and found about 50 genetic diseases caused by the failure of one enzyme or another to link up with an appropriate helper molecule. Such helpers are often B vitamins, and the diseases were often treatable with large doses of the appropriate vitamin.

    The enzyme damage in these diseases is similar to that induced by oxidation, so Dr Ames suspects that its effects, too, can be ameliorated by high doses of vitamins. He has gathered evidence from mice to support this idea, but whether it is the case in people has yet to be tested.




    In Dr Sinclair's view, the way caloric restriction prolongs life revolves around genes for proteins called sirtuins. Certainly, these genes are involved in life extension in simple species such as threadworms and yeast. Add extra copies of them to these organisms' chromosomes, or force the existing copies to produce more protein than normal, and life is prolonged. This seems to be because sirtuins control the abundance of a regulatory molecule called nicotinamide adenine diphosphate which, in turn, controls the release of energy in the mitochondria.

    The most intriguing connection in this story is with the French paradox. This is the fact that the French tend to eat fatty diets rich in red meat but to have the survival characteristics of those whose diets are lean and vegetarian. Some researchers link this with their consumption of red wine—and, in particular, of a molecule called resveratrol that is found in such wine. Resveratrol activates sirtuins, and some similar molecules activate them much more. It is these sirtuin super-stimulators that interest Dr Sinclair.
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    Very interesting read.
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    agreed. the theories are very interesting. These concepts are becoming more and more popular as people start to investigate the possibilities of "anti-aging" for sure. I think it is something that can really take off. But in the most primitive sense wouldn't this really disrupt the cycle of evolution and the natural somewhat unexplainable processes happening around us? Sometimes I just hope that our technological and intellectual advances wont lead to our misfortunate demise.
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    theres a reason I take 2g of resveratrol a day
    This space for rent

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    and a very good reason that is^^
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    so if this lame formula is accurate

    Advanced Antioxidant Formula: (one capsule per day)
    ORAC's 5,000
    Calories 0 A great deal fewer calories.
    Fiber 0 Supplement your fiber intake with Waiora's Superior Fiber Blend.
    Resveratrol 8mg Equivelent to 8-10 glasses of red wine.
    Green Tea 40% EGCG
    Quercetin flavonoids
    And you get 5000 oracs out of 8mg of resveratrol, then i'm scavenging free radicals like a mofo
    This space for rent

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    Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    agreed. the theories are very interesting. These concepts are becoming more and more popular as people start to investigate the possibilities of "anti-aging" for sure. I think it is something that can really take off. But in the most primitive sense wouldn't this really disrupt the cycle of evolution and the natural somewhat unexplainable processes happening around us? Sometimes I just hope that our technological and intellectual advances wont lead to our misfortunate demise.
    Your genes don't care if you are happy...they are selfishly devoted to reproducing themselves. We are the vessel for that activity.

    Maybe if it was up to them our life span would be very tiny and gene propagation would be maxed out. But we have evolved an ability to control our environment in such a way as to maxamize our happiness which I assume would include maxamizing both quality of life and longevity.

    If extending the length of a happy life depresses my genes then I say "f@ck em".
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    Thumbs up


    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Advanced Antioxidant Formula: (one capsule per day)
    ORAC's 5,000
    Calories 0 A great deal fewer calories.
    Fiber 0 Supplement your fiber intake with Waiora's Superior Fiber Blend.
    Resveratrol 8mg Equivelent to 8-10 glasses of red wine.
    Green Tea 40% EGCG
    Quercetin flavonoids
    Hmmmm....Maybe I should add 8-10 glasses of wine to my morning fishoil, tuna and oatmeal. It sure would make the tuna go down easier....not to mention making my day stress free.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    so if this lame formula is accurate



    And you get 5000 oracs out of 8mg of resveratrol, then i'm scavenging free radicals like a mofo
    What is this? It says 1 capsule and it has 8 grams?


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    interesting article. so we could have potential cures to diseases ranging from prostatitis all the way to cancer-- or am I just exaggerating?
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Your genes don't care if you are happy...they are selfishly devoted to reproducing themselves. We are the vessel for that activity.

    Maybe if it was up to them our life span would be very tiny and gene propagation would be maxed out. But we have evolved an ability to control our environment in such a way as to maxamize our happiness which I assume would include maxamizing both quality of life and longevity.

    If extending the length of a happy life depresses my genes then I say "f@ck em".
    haha ya i agree
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    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER View Post
    What is this? It says 1 capsule and it has 8 grams?


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    lol i dont know about you but i see mg after 8. That would be one big ass pill. lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    ... But in the most primitive sense wouldn't this really disrupt the cycle of evolution and the natural somewhat unexplainable processes happening around us? Sometimes I just hope that our technological and intellectual advances wont lead to our misfortunate demise.
    This is a deep philosophical question that has no easy answer. Many people would rather let nature and its dictates govern our destiny in its entirety, without any manipulations on our side. Some say civilizations have dramatically changed nature anyway since the beginning of time, and it would be a logical continuation of that evolutionary process to continue to tweak nature to our advantage. Some others are completely neutral to these options. And so on.

    If people argue we should not tweak nature, one question would be if we should not do it at all, or if there is an acceptable limit. If the former, does not an event like abortion involve tweaking natural processes? Humans and one or so other animal species are the only ones that have sex for fun. Otherwise, nature intended intercourse as a means of procreation. I am not saying abortion is good or bad. I only used it as an example of humans interfering in natural processes. There are other examples as well.

    If, on the other hand, one argues we could tweak nature up to a limit, we have the moral-ethical-philosophical question of who should define the limit, and based on what criteria? Who is in a position, for instance, to declare that someone aged 95 has lived long enough that he/she may now die? If we ask the individual in question, he or she may desire to see his/her 100th birthday, or even live longer. Or may even desire to live until his/her grandchildren hit 100! So, things we see from our perspective may not be what others see! And some questions may not have any universally accepted answers.

    The ramifications of such questions (tweak nature or do not tweak nature) are wide-ranging. Personally, I think we should tweak nature as long as we do not create any disequilibria (imbalances) elsewhere in the process. If we take the do-not-tweak-nature perspective to an extreme, then we should not even use supplements! We should let our bodies naturally adjust to the different attacks and stress they are subjected to Modern civilization is advancing rather fast. As this happens, the challenges we face in different areas multiply. We should aspire to master those challenges as much as we can. To achieve this, it may be necessary to tweak ourselves and nature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Hmmmm....Maybe I should add 8-10 glasses of wine to my morning fishoil, tuna and oatmeal. It sure would make the tuna go down easier....not to mention making my day stress free.
    I'm sure you were kidding, right? Those must be really huge glasses! Or the red wine must be crafted under special conditions. Generally, since the advent of pesticides, the amount of resveratrol found in red wine is on the decline. Typically, you should expect to get 2mg - 3mg of Resveratrol per liter! Yes, per liter! Consider getting up to 100mg or more of resveratrol via this process! So getting your resveratrol from red wine is neither practical nor medically advisable! Grab those resveratrol supplements! Be sure you take quercetin and an absorption enhancer such as Bioperine or Piperine because resveratrol has poor bioavailability when taken solo. In my opinion, they hardly come better than Post Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations. Perhaps, Anabolic Innovations may consider adding Grape Seed Extract and Green Tea Extract to that formula and it would be the best antioxidant and anti-aging formula far and wide. Anti-aging because Resveratrol has been shown to be one of the few compounds that can mimic the effects of calorie restriction
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    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER View Post
    What is this? It says 1 capsule and it has 8 grams?


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    Acutally I see others showing 100mg having around 3000 orac. still at 3000 orac per 100mg, i'm taking in enough over the course of the day
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    This is a deep philosophical question that has no easy answer. Many people would rather let nature and its dictates govern our destiny in its entirety, without any manipulations on our side. Some say civilizations have dramatically changed nature anyway since the beginning of time, and it would be a logical continuation of that evolutionary process to continue to tweak nature to our advantage. Some others are completely neutral to these options. And so on.

    If people argue we should not tweak nature, one question would be if we should not do it at all, or if there is an acceptable limit. If the former, does not an event like abortion involve tweaking natural processes? Humans and one or so other animal species are the only ones that have sex for fun. Otherwise, nature intended intercourse as a means of procreation. I am not saying abortion is good or bad. I only used it as an example of humans interfering in natural processes. There are other examples as well.

    If, on the other hand, one argues we could tweak nature up to a limit, we have the moral-ethical-philosophical question of who should define the limit, and based on what criteria? Who is in a position, for instance, to declare that someone aged 95 has lived long enough that he/she may now die? If we ask the individual in question, he or she may desire to see his/her 100th birthday, or even live longer. Or may even desire to live until his/her grandchildren hit 100! So, things we see from our perspective may not be what others see! And some questions may not have any universally accepted answers.

    The ramifications of such questions (tweak nature or do not tweak nature) are wide-ranging. Personally, I think we should tweak nature as long as we do not create any disequilibria (imbalances) elsewhere in the process. If we take the do-not-tweak-nature perspective to an extreme, then we should not even use supplements! We should let our bodies naturally adjust to the different attacks and stress they are subjected to Modern civilization is advancing rather fast. As this happens, the challenges we face in different areas multiply. We should aspire to master those challenges as much as we can. To achieve this, it may be necessary to tweak ourselves and nature.
    do you think that through tweaking nature, most of the modern day diseases can be solved? There is a lot of talk about ageing and life extension, but that is inevitable really. The question is where do the medical problems and solutions fit into all of this?
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    I second the veggie notion.

    Someone guessed my age yesterday and it was 5 years less than I am :/ My mum is in her mid-50s and does not look a day over 40.. I hope I look as young as her when I turn 50!

    We wolf down greens like no tomorrow, stay protected from the sun as much as we can, drink heaps of water and don't wear excessive amounts of skin clogging/killing makeup. And we try not to let stress get the better of us.

    This reminds me to get back on the alcar/ala, back on the anarchy stack!
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    Yeah but you're a natural beauty, AB. What about the rest of us?! HMMM? LOL. And I hate the term "Life Extension." There is NO SUCH THING unless there is a protocol that I'm unaware of that makes you bullet/knife/car crash/etc proof. I much prefer "Life Enhancement."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionic View Post
    Yeah but you're a natural beauty, AB. What about the rest of us?! HMMM? LOL. And I hate the term "Life Extension." There is NO SUCH THING unless there is a protocol that I'm unaware of that makes you bullet/knife/car crash/etc proof. I much prefer "Life Enhancement."
    Not to mention asians in general see to hold their age well. I worked with one asian chick in the past that was in her 40's and looked like she was in her early 20's. Pretty effin crazy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo250 View Post
    do you think that through tweaking nature, most of the modern day diseases can be solved? There is a lot of talk about ageing and life extension, but that is inevitable really. The question is where do the medical problems and solutions fit into all of this?
    Tweaking nature and tweaking our biology may help us master certain health challenges we currently face, or may face.
    Ageing is inevitable. Life extension is possible, but not necessarily inevitable. Medical problems and solutions are an integral part of the above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frequency View Post
    Not to mention asians in general see to hold their age well. I worked with one asian chick in the past that was in her 40's and looked like she was in her early 20's. Pretty effin crazy.
    Much of the explanation is in their diet and lifestyle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by asianbabe View Post
    I second the veggie notion...
    That is always a winning option
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Much of the explanation is in their diet and lifestyle.
    agreed
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    Quote Originally Posted by asianbabe View Post
    I second the veggie notion.

    Someone guessed my age yesterday and it was 5 years less than I am :/ My mum is in her mid-50s and does not look a day over 40.. I hope I look as young as her when I turn 50!

    We wolf down greens like no tomorrow, stay protected from the sun as much as we can, drink heaps of water and don't wear excessive amounts of skin clogging/killing makeup. And we try not to let stress get the better of us.

    This reminds me to get back on the alcar/ala, back on the anarchy stack!
    No racist but Asians due to seem to age much better than us whiteys. As you are aware my fiancee is Korean and she is in her 30's and people always think she is in her early 20's. Her mother is an absolute knockout and is in her upper 50's and her father looks about 45/50 and is actually 65. Good genes go a long way.
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    And lest we forget...Good black don't crack!
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitedevil74 View Post
    No racist but Asians due to seem to age much better than us whiteys. As you are aware my fiancee is Korean and she is in her 30's and people always think she is in her early 20's. Her mother is an absolute knockout and is in her upper 50's and her father looks about 45/50 and is actually 65. Good genes go a long way.
    krngrl is hot!
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    Quote Originally Posted by asianbabe View Post
    krngrl is hot!
    Who or what is "krngrl"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitedevil74 View Post
    No racist but Asians due to seem to age much better than us whiteys...
    Genes. Diet. Lifestyle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Genes. Diet. Lifestyle.
    Genes. My girl drinks, smokes, eats McDonalds for almost every meal and is ripped, muscular and healthy as a horse. Her brother looks like a ripped bodybuilder and does not work out nor diet. He eats mostly fast food as well. Genes are by far the most important factor in determining a persons physique/appearance. Even when I was paying close attention to my diet, on a regular exercise and cardio schedule I could not even come close to his level of musculature. Jealous you ask? Very.

    Another example is a guy I play basketball with whose physique I would kill for. One night I asked him if he worked out or dieted and he said no diet but he did do 25 pushups and 50 situps every morning. Life is not fair.
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    10/10 article now how do we apply this?

    alcar/ala
    Resveratrol

    ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitedevil74 View Post
    Genes. My girl drinks, smokes, eats McDonalds for almost every meal and is ripped, muscular and healthy as a horse. Her brother looks like a ripped bodybuilder and does not work out nor diet. He eats mostly fast food as well. Genes are by far the most important factor in determining a persons physique/appearance. Even when I was paying close attention to my diet, on a regular exercise and cardio schedule I could not even come close to his level of musculature. Jealous you ask? Very.

    Another example is a guy I play basketball with whose physique I would kill for. One night I asked him if he worked out or dieted and he said no diet but he did do 25 pushups and 50 situps every morning. Life is not fair.
    My bro is the same.. he is skinny but he has a six pack eating :burg: and has veins popping out everywhere

    He is Finally getting his lazy ass together and starting to get interested in lifting so we'll see how he progresses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    10/10 article now how do we apply this?

    alcar/ala
    Resveratrol

    ?
    i would throw some idebenone in there as well
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    This is a very interesting and informative article. It's definitely very useful, too. I'll be keeping this in mind and probably printing it.
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    So, if we consume Idebenone, ALCAR/ALA, and Resveratrol, then we should be beginning 'abolishing ageing,' correct?
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    This article is interesting but not practical. What it comes down to is how can anyone / everyone apply these things to their daily lives, only then does it show any true value.

    I mean anyone can create an interesting article but proof is in the pudding as they say. Think test boosters ...everyone and your uncle has a test booster but how many boost omgwtf111 test 1000% to pack on jaw dropping mass....none as far as I know.

    The answer lies within FAQ's etc i.e.

    1. Take 'x' daily at 'x' dose mg

    2. Take 'y' daily at 'y' dose mg

    3. You will know this is working by 'z' results.

    What is the effective dose and method of dosing these things, how many times a day etc etc etc.

    Cynically Yours,

    Neoborn
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    This article is interesting but not practical. What it comes down to is how can anyone / everyone apply these things to their daily lives, only then does it show any true value....
    I understand your cynicism, Neoborn. The difficulty in issuing a prescription is that different things work for different people. That is probably why one needs some type of stack with promising and, in some cases, clinically tried compounds. I would look at some of the following:

    1) Acetyl-L-Carnitine (mitochondrial action)/Propionyl-L-Carnitine (cardiovascular function)/Acetyl-L-Carnitine-Arginate (brain metabolism/neurite renewal)/Alpha Lipoic Acid (universal anti-oxidant)
    2) CoQ10 Ubiquinol (significantly more potent than conventional ubiquinone)/Idebenone (similar but different pathway versus ubiquinol)
    3) Omega-3 Fatty Acids (brain metabolism, cardiovascular protection, mitochondrial action, and so on)
    4) Resveratrol (calorie restriction mimetic, anti-aging compound, versatile benefits)/Quercetin (resveratrol co-factor and potent compound)/Bioperine or Piperidine (resveratrol absorption and general nutrient enhancer)
    5) Grape Seed Extract (potent anti-oxidant and booster)/Ginkgo Biloba (blood-flow enhancer to neural cells and extremities, tinnitus management, and so on)
    6) Carnosine (or Beta Alanine/L-Histidine), regarded by some as one of the most potent anti-aging compounds available
    7) Green Tea Extract (nutrient partitioning, thyroid synthesis, appetite modulation, fat synthesis, anti-oxidant, and so on)
    8) Vitamin C, both water soluble (ascorbic acid) and lipid soluble (ascorbyl palmitate).
    9) Good supply of fruits and vegetables
    10) Exercise

    This list is non-exhaustive. One can select one or more compounds from there, or add others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    I understand your cynicism, Neoborn. The difficulty in issuing a prescription is that different things work for different people. That is probably why one needs some type of stack with promising and, in some cases, clinically tried compounds. I would look at some of the following:

    1) Acetyl-L-Carnitine (mitochondrial action)/Propionyl-L-Carnitine (cardiovascular function)/Acetyl-L-Carnitine-Arginate (brain metabolism/neurite renewal)/Alpha Lipoic Acid (universal anti-oxidant)
    2) CoQ10 Ubiquinol (significantly more potent than conventional ubiquinone)/Idebenone (similar but different pathway versus ubiquinol)
    3) Omega-3 Fatty Acids (brain metabolism, cardiovascular protection, mitochondrial action, and so on)
    4) Resveratrol (calorie restriction mimetic, anti-aging compound, versatile benefits)/Quercetin (resveratrol co-factor and potent compound)/Bioperine or Piperidine (resveratrol absorption and general nutrient enhancer)
    5) Grape Seed Extract (potent anti-oxidant and booster)/Ginkgo Biloba (blood-flow enhancer to neural cells and extremities, tinnitus management, and so on)
    6) Carnosine (or Beta Alanine/L-Histidine), regarded by some as one of the most potent anti-aging compounds available
    7) Green Tea Extract (nutrient partitioning, thyroid synthesis, appetite modulation, fat synthesis, anti-oxidant, and so on)
    8) Vitamin C, both water soluble (ascorbic acid) and lipid soluble (ascorbyl palmitate).
    9) Good supply of fruits and vegetables
    10) Exercise

    This list is non-exhaustive. One can select one or more compounds from there, or add others.
    Excellent List Strat. M. I already take all of them except for the Quercetin, which I took for years mostly for BPH. Maybe I should reconsider that. In addition I recommend:
    11) Vitamin D major reduction in diabetes, cancer and coronary artery calcification. lowers agatston scores,
    12) Progesterone estrogen supression, stimulates p53 (apoptosis gene), positive effects on metabolism, blood clotting, bone production, inhibits alzheimers......
    14) Curcumin antitumor, antioxidant, antiarthritic, anti-amyloid and anti-inflammatory properties.
    15) Garlic fights cancer and diabetes, lowers blood homocysteine levels
    16)Creatine Anti-Parkinsons

    PS: Sharing a bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon with your significant other is another good step for one's health for its resveratrol properties and, to relax after taking so many damn pills and creams!!
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