Thoughts on P-plex/Sdrol/Havoc stack??
- 12-14-2007, 08:46 PM
Thoughts on P-plex/Sdrol/Havoc stack??
Have a couple thoughts on a run with these compounds used together.
I have some experience with these types of compounds, although the last run I had was using M1T quite a few years ago. First run with it, had decent results with little to no sides....
Second run with it I had real trouble with the sides and quit it early, which is why I still have a bottle laying around somewhere.
The lethargy killed me!! Hoping for better results this time.
Where I am at and what I am looking for:
- 6' 230lbs @15%bf
- Looking to get lean gains on this.
I don't mind not gaining 20lbs including all the usual water weight and fat that comes with it. And I am not looking to drop 20lbs either and losing precious muscle.
I would be ecstatic with a 10lb lean mass gain, keeping most of it.
Whether that be gaining 10lbs without upping the BF% or gaining 5lbs and dropping a couple BF% points, I would be very happy with either result.
So anyway, here is what I have to work with.
Keep in mind that liver protection during, and post cycle therapy after is already set, no issues there at all. Just trying to figure out the best and safest way to run these orals together.
P-plex weeks 1-5, with weekly breakdown
15mg/30mg/30mg/30mg/30mg/15mg per day
Sdrol weeks 5-9, with weekly breakdown
15mg/30mg/30mg/30mg/30mg/15mg per day
Havoc pulsed throughout
Leading into post cycle therapy for usual 3 weeks.
-Now I know this is a long run on orals, but dosing is not outrageous, and hoping they would not be too hard on the liver combining them
Or I could run the P-plex and sdrol, and save the havoc for a seperate cycle after taking a break.
Any ideas/advice/results that would help would be appreciated.
EDITED to be more clear....
Thanks in advance!!
- 12-14-2007, 09:19 PM
Way to long to run orals 13 weeks ouchhhhh most run 4 weeks pct with a SERM for sdrol or p-plex you want to run 13 weeks and with 3 weeks pct and you do not even state what that is your asking for trouble more research
12-14-2007, 09:29 PM
I am doing my research as well as asking here.
Believe me, I am not a rookie at this stuff, I just have not used these compounds before.
Trying to gauge the toxicity of these orals still, as I have had no issue running orals for 8-9 weeks previously. It all depends on what it is.
Supposedly, the P-plex is not too hard on folks in terms of sides, the sdrol has some kick to it, and the Havoc, from what I have heard is very light on sides as well.
And how long would you say people normally run their PCT??
B/c in my experience, 3 weeks is the staple.
In closing, I am not looking for some to come in and knock the proposed cycles without any explanation at all.
If you have no experience with at least stacking 2 of these in a cycle, you really cannot give any advice, other than the same regurgitated things I can read myself.
So anyone with either real life results or some reasonable advice??
12-14-2007, 09:46 PM
Also, for anyone else that wants to offer advice, please note that the first "idea" was just that, a shot in the dark in terms of seeing what people had to say in terms of sides and toxicity of these compared to other compounds.
The second option was actually my first idea, and my second idea was to split these up into 2 seperate cycles.
Using the P-plex and Sdrol together and then the Havoc alone, in 2 "consecutive" cycles with time off in between obviously.
12-14-2007, 10:03 PM
Dude, if you can't gain 5-10lbs on a 4-6 week designer run, then I think you need to move on to something a little more advanced. Running a 13 week oral is crazy IMO.
12-14-2007, 10:06 PM
LOL at 13 weeks of orals........especially 6 weeks of Superdrol.....that's abs-****ing-lutely ridiculous.
Why not go fill out an application for a liver donor as well????
12-14-2007, 10:24 PM
Not trying to knock the cycle just trying to save your health orals should be run no more than 4 weeks and people have had some horrible sides with p-plex but it seems you already have your mind made up but i disagree strongly with either plan
12-14-2007, 10:29 PM
Read the whole ****ing post before you reply.....or is that too hard??
From my understanding these are designer steroids.
Running D-bol for 6-8 weeks has never presented issue with MANY people, running up to 8 weeks with Anavar is also nothing for most people.
Yes a 12 week cycle on orals would be overkill, hence like I said trying to understand the toxicity of these compounds.
I was under the assumption that these orals were no worse than those listed......
I would hope in all the steps they have taken to get these out there, that they would not be worse than a scheduled illegal compound of the same ilk.
So if anyone wants to comment on the second option, that would be nice, or you can continue being completely unhelpful.
12-14-2007, 10:31 PM
Now this is helpful. I am sorry, but I did not see that many cases of horrible sides with P-plex. I have definitely seen Superdrol mentioned in that regard, and I have seen Epistane aka Havoc listed as a very easy on the body compound.
If p plex and epistane were not too hard on the body, in my mind the sdrol was the worrisome factor in there.
12-14-2007, 10:34 PM
BTW, I will edit the initial post above to satisfy the masses, and hopefully get more help rather than outrage at a stupid plan.....
12-14-2007, 10:56 PM
People are simply trying to tell you that 13 wks of these particular substances might be unwise. These are not anavar, and the fact that they are purchased otc does not diminish their liver toxicity. That would be my primary concern. Also as an aside Anavar tends to destroy cholesterol levels, although otherwise it is very mild. The revised cycle is a wise move IMO. I would only suggest you use lots of support sups such as Cycle Support or a combo of liver aid/cholesterol aid/bp aid. Just a suggestion from someone who has ran other types of cycles besides the DS ones here.
12-14-2007, 11:02 PM
And yes you are correct about the Var, but I have seen "others" blood tests and physicals after using these (Var and Dbol) for extended lengths come in at just slightly elevated during cycle and back to normal right after post cycle therapy.....so I am/was trying to figure out where these stood in the whole spectrum of it all.
Lastly, I honestly hoped they had made leaps and bounds since the M1T days, b/c I know that stuff was very hard on the liver, moreso than the illegal compounds to some.
I guess I was asking for too much from these....lol
I always have the during cycle and PCT aids around, can't be careful or prepared enough......
12-14-2007, 11:20 PM
12-14-2007, 11:44 PM
Yeah we just want to try to help you be safe even though you revised the cycle and this is just my opinion 9 weeks is still to long all 3 compounds are methyl's and it is not good for the liver and also your lipids. What is your pct plan? If i were you you might want to run the superdrol and bridge the havoc so you get a 6 or 7 week cycle but to run 2 methyl's at a time for 9 weeks is going to be hell on the liver and lipids just some advice but what ever you do be safe and good luck
12-14-2007, 11:47 PM
And I asked for some reasoning behind it, as in who has tried it, who has stacked it, how long, what have you seen in terms of sides, toxicity, etc....
A bit more than "that is stupid".....it is very easy to say that.
But like I said, my questions come from my experience with other compounds, not all are alike, or even in the same league in terms of sides, and the terms of how prevalent the sides were. That was where my confusion comes in, and I guess I was assuming that these were the same if not better than those well known illegal compounds.
Obvisouly I was mistaken.
12-14-2007, 11:54 PM
How would running 2 compounds at a total of 50mg's be any different than running one compound at 50mgs, even though they are both going to effect liver values and lipid values.
Say you were to run 50mgs of D-bol or A bombs(a normal daily dose), can these compounds really be any worse than those??
I see not running all of these for 9 weeks, but I thought it would be reasonable, depending on the sides seen and blood tests, to run the pheraplex and drol to 8 weeks with pulsing of the havoc mixed in. In this instance you are running 30-50mgs of active ingredients per day which would be normal in any "real" cycle. '
Obviously 8 weeks is a little long. 6 weeks would be a norm for it....but 8 weeks has been and is done.
(Whether that is a smart idea or not is obviously debatable).
Don't get me wrong I am not arguing against your point, but moreso trying to get a read on where these stand in big picture that would include all orals, whether it be legal or not.....
12-15-2007, 12:00 AM
And to answer your other question, I have clomid, nolva, arimidex, and letro on hand with exemestane on the way.
I have always used the age old 3 weeks of PCT of clomid and nolva in declining amounts for 3 weeks with my past runs which has always worked well, but I have the others on hand in case they are needed, or will offer a better option.
12-15-2007, 12:06 AM
How would running 2 compounds at a total of 50mg's be any different than running one compound at 50mgs, even though they are both going to effect liver values and lipid values
By running 2 at a time even at a total of 50mg you got 2 methyl compound pounding away at your liver and lipids by running one at 50mg(which you should not with these compounds)you got only 1 methyl less of a problem for the liver and lipids. Thats why i suggested a bridge run the superdrol 3 wks(it is highly recomended to run it only 3 week it can be a very harsh compound) and at the end bridge in the epi/havoc that way you can get a 6 week cycle and see results. Both superdrol and p-plex have reports of causing gyno running both is just asking for trouble. What is your plan for post cycle therapy? Many have reported gains of 10-15 lbs with a 3 week cycle of superdrol by itself with proper diet and training so just consider that and maybe save the p-plex and epi for another cycle
Sorry did not see your pct response till after i posted
12-15-2007, 12:12 AM
And don't think that I was jumping into anything without checking it out, that is why I am here with the stupid questions.
This stuff will not be run until after the holidays anyway. Just wanted to get a baseline as to where these stood in terms of the stuff that I actually have a grasp on.
These compounds I obviously do not....lol....not yet at least.
I think I have just gotten used to needing to run cycles longer than a month to see and keep results, and somewhere along my thinking wasn't paying attention to the fact that this time they were all going to be orals.
12-15-2007, 12:17 AM
I will speak from my experience of these compounds:
PP did nada for me. Havoc/Epi are a nice mild compound that I like but see no reason to stack. Dial the diet & training & run it alone, IMO.
Superdrol treated me well. I experienced some sides, mainly that hindered cardio like shin & back pumps but no lethargy or moodiness that I get from M1T & 1test. I feel Superdrol stands on it's own just fine and a 6 week run at 30mg is what I do.
In short, I recommend selling your PP and saving the Havoc for some cutting in the spring; run the SD at 30mg for 6 weeks with a buttload of carbs.
(Everyone responds different to these compounds, my bloodwork after 6 weeks SD was not terrible. Your mileage may vary.)
12-15-2007, 12:20 AM
I would like to add that most of the people saying they gained 15lbs in a cycle of 3-4 weeks are full of it. Maybe if they are getting noob gains. Most people would be happy with 10lbs of solid gains in a year. Half of the weight with SD is friggen glycogen.
12-15-2007, 12:21 AM
No problem bro it good that you ask before running it use the search function here on superdrol, m-drol(same as superdrol),
phera-plex, p-plex, Havoc, epistane, bridge
There will be a ton of info from these searchs here gain as much knowledge as you can and you should be cool to run your cycle best of luck bro
12-15-2007, 11:48 AM
Thanks bp, that absolutely helps and that was some info I was definitely looking for.
Don't worry, I will be continuing to read up on them...plenty of time before I will be running any of it just yet.
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