Fish Oil Question
- 12-14-2007, 11:36 AM
Fish Oil Question
How much do you need to take to be considered mega dosing? I read somewhere around 20-30 grams? Any of you have any opinions on Mega Dosing Omega-3's? I've read a few threads about it on here, but opinions on those threads go back & forth, being for and against it.
Also, I'm taking Sesathin and Sesamin Oil and the Sesathin reads that it is more effective in diets high in Omega-3's, which is why I was considering Mega Dosing my fish oil to augment the effects of the Sesathin.NSCA - CSCS
- 12-14-2007, 11:42 AM
Depends on the brand your taking and how much of the oil is epa. Like most have low dosage of epa and is crap. Mine has a very high dosage so I can mega dose and get good mega dosages were as if I mega dosage with crap my body will ingest crap too.
- 12-14-2007, 11:52 AM
So I should be looking for the EPA in a fish oil to determine it's quality?NSCA - CSCS
12-14-2007, 12:10 PM
Omega 3 from fish oil has a blood thinning effect at high doses. I wouldn't recommend it. I'd call anything above 10g per day megadosing.
12-14-2007, 12:30 PM
Yes. EPA is very important. EPA is the omega-3 shown in research to block the major pathway of muscle breakdown. By down-regulating this pathway, EPA helps to reduce the destruction of muscle protein during intense training programs and particularly during periods of calorie-restriction. This reduction in the breakdown of muscle protein is a key aspect to promoting net gains in muscle mass.
However, increasing the ratio of EPA in the diet also has another important benefit. It appears to enhance fat utilization during exercise. In one study, regular use of an EPA-rich supplement resulted in significantly greater use of fat for fuel. However, the problem with most fish oil supplements is that they don’t contain anywhere near enough of the active ingredients shown to produce this benefit.
That is why I like the one I get from the doctors office I work at.
12-14-2007, 01:10 PM
12-14-2007, 01:23 PM
SesaThin Questions - Avant LabsAlso, I'm taking Sesathin and Sesamin Oil and the Sesathin reads that it is more effective in diets high in Omega-3's, which is why I was considering Mega Dosing my fish oil to augment the effects of the Sesathin.
12-14-2007, 01:31 PM
"Fish oil consumption is generally safe and well tolerated, with less adverse effects than other dietary oils . Doses equivalent to three times the FDA maximum safe dosage (which is 3 g EPA/DHA per day) appear to be safe in rats . The primary reported side effect is "fish burps" or a "fishy taste in the mouth," although this can depend on the product, and it is also commonly reported to only be a problem for the first few weeks of fish oil consumption. However there are a few more serious side effects that may be seen with high dose fish oil consumption which may warrant caution.
The first of these is that high doses of fish oil may decrease immune function (in opposition to lower intakes, which may enhance it) [40-42]. While this is beneficial in some autoimmune diseases it is not always desirable. For example, high amounts of fish oil may impair bacterial resistance . Modest doses, in the range of 1-2 g of EPA/DHA daily, do not appear to have a negative impact on immune function over 6 months . This effect may also be avoided with supplemental vitamin E . A second potential problem is increased lipid peroxidation, resulting in an increase in oxidative stress [44-47]. However, this effect can also be remedied with vitamin E [9, 48].
Another possible side effect is an increase in LDL cholesterol and a decrease in HDL cholesterol [49-50]. The first of these effects can be seen with doses as low as 3.6 g/day in humans . However, LDL increase is generally less than 5% , and fish oil on balance has a very positive impact on the cardiovascular system. Since fish oil thins the blood, it may also increase the likelihood of bleeding, but it does not appear to do this at lower doses. 2-5 grams a day, even when combined with other blood thinners such as aspirin, do not appear to increase bleeding time, but intake over 20 grams a day will increase bleeding times . Other possible side effects of high or very high dose fish oil consumption reported in animals are increased liver and spleen weight, adverse effects on iron metabolism, and red blood cell deformities [45, 46, 50], but it is doubtful that these are relevant in moderate doses.
What all of this amounts to is, fish oil consumption in a healthy individual should probably be kept within a reasonable range, and additional supplementation with vitamin E is also a good choice. The amount of fish oil one takes should be dependent on both goals and the amount of EPA/DHA present in the fish oil. The optimal range for both safety and effectiveness in most healthy individuals is 1-4 g of EPA/DHA daily, and this amount shouldn't be exceeded without medical supervision. Most fish oils are standardized to 30% EPA/DHA, so this would be about 3-12 one gram caps daily. If the fish oil is standardized to a different amount the dosage should be changed accordingly, for example 2-8 caps of a 50% EPA/DHA product. Most of the benefits (other than possibly the change in body composition, for which there is presently little functional data) can be seen with 1-2 grams of EPA/DHA daily. Most fish oil capsules also contain vitamin E, but if they don't, a vitamin E supplement should be taken also." ~David Tolson
12-14-2007, 03:17 PM
That's helpful, thanks a lot, I'll check the EPA on my fish oil to see how many I should be taking to remain within the safe EPA range
NSCA - CSCS
12-14-2007, 04:12 PM
01-10-2008, 10:59 AM
omg i thought fish oil was fish oil lol. guess i was wrong. anyone happen to know the ratio of the fish oil at BJ's Wholesale? :P I might have to look into another brand.
01-10-2008, 08:54 PM
Here are the details of the BJ's Fish Oil. Maybe someone can give me some help. The back says:
EPA - 432mg
DHA - 288mg
The total serving size is 2400mg of fish oil. what the hell does this mean. how much should i be taking?
01-11-2008, 09:23 AM
01-11-2008, 09:31 AM
See here I wonder. when it says 1-2g of epa/dha is that combined between the two? hard to say. With the fish oil I am taking, I think its 180mg epa/120dha per g. so at 30g a day I guess i'm at 9g of combined epa/dha
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01-11-2008, 02:22 PM
When beginning to add fish oil to your diet it is a good idea to mega-dose 6 to 9 tsp for a period of 6 weeks then cut back to a maintenance dose of 3 tsp per day. I've been mega-dosing for approx. 3 weeks and this week I'm starting to notice a measurable difference in energy and endurance - yesterday I played 50min of ice hockey without resting and it was a pretty fast game.
Brands that I consider to be good quality are NutraSea, Nordic Naturals, Carlson and Genuine Health.
01-11-2008, 05:15 PM
Something else. One way to improve the potency of your fish oil is to co-supplement with sesame lignans.
When we consume fats, our body breaks them down such that special enzymes determine which inflammatory pathway they follow: either enhance or suppress inflammatory reactions. As it turns out, the lignans from sesame inhibit the expression of an enzyme known as delta-5 desaturase. This enzyme causes dietary fats to be converted into arachidonic acid, a precursor to the toxic inflammatory factors prostaglandin E2 and leukotriene B4. This is, by the way, why you should avoid fish oil while using an Arachidonic Acid product such as X-Factor. Furthermore, sesame lignans also multiply levels of useful DGLA (di-homogamma linolenic acid). DGLA is the precursor to prostaglandin E1 that, amongst others, suppresses inflammatory conditions. Supplementation with GLA (gamma linolenic acid), for instance through borage oil, also increases levels of DGLA and prostaglandin E1. So avoid sesame lignans (and GLA), if you are on an arachidonic acid product.
Also, cellular energy production requires the burning of fatty acids in the mitochondria. If liver mitochondria sub-optimally burn fatty acids, excess triglycerides can accumulate in the blood, contributing to arterial occlusion. Sesame helps to increase mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation enzymes in the liver, cut triglyceride levels and inhibit body fat storage.
Furthermore, when we ingest a polyunsaturated fat like fish oil, it rapidly degenerates into byproducts that can generate excess free-radical activity. Sesame doubles as a potent free-radical scavenger (antioxidant) and can lower undesirable lipid peroxidation arising from fish oil supplementation. Vitamin E (including gamma tocopherols) can also do this. Interestingly, sesame lignans possess the unique ability to increase tissue levels of vitamin E! Beyond this, you can also use alpha lipoic acid as a powerful free-radical quencher.
So, the amount of fish oil one takes is not the point. More important is to understand how much of toxin-free EPA and DHA we get per gramme of our fish oil product.
Before you consume fish oil, especially in high doses, be sure to find out if your fish-oil producer subjects his product to rigorous testing for purity and concentration performed by independent quality-assurance programs such as the International Fish Oil Standards (IFOS) program. Third-party laboratory assays may not be enough, as they mainly check whether the active compounds satisfy the label claims. A review of the presence of pollutants, as well as the rate of dissolution, that is how quickly the product releases within a specific time, are some checks for purity and quality. Testing can also be more demanding than this.
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