R4W vs. RPM

[joebo]

I'd like to continue the constructive discussion of the products and not get side tracked and maybe leave more room for people who have questions about either product. Please do not chime in with your personal opinion unless you have tried both products. And Reaper, Please stay out, go pop a couple trim-spa pills and stare into the corner.:welcome: :welcome: :wave: :rofl:

 

[Cellardude]

I'd like to continue the constructive discussion of the products and not get side tracked and maybe leave more room for people who have questions about either product. Please do not chime in with your personal opinion unless you have tried both products. And Reaper, Please stay out, go pop a couple trim-spa pills and stare into the corner.:welcome: :welcome: :wave: :rofl:

rofl.

Although I haven't tried R4W I must say that it basically kept me from trying it with the amount of money that it cost. On sale it is cheaper than RPM but if you think about regular price of it, it doesnt make that much of a difference. I personally am not a big fan of stims. I think 2-3 RPM is more than enough because I hate feeling the stim after effect. now if R4W was heavier than RPM then I wouldnt want to jump into that. Im not a big fan of stims. They don't give me a good feeling either. just my 2 cents.

 

[ReaperX]

I'd like to continue the constructive discussion of the products and not get side tracked and maybe leave more room for people who have questions about either product. Please do not chime in with your personal opinion unless you have tried both products. And Reaper, Please stay out, go pop a couple trim-spa pills and stare into the corner.:welcome: :welcome: :wave: :rofl:

You are quite a professional at emoticons.

 

[joebo]

rofl.

Although I haven't tried R4W I must say that it basically kept me from trying it with the amount of money that it cost. On sale it is cheaper than RPM but if you think about regular price of it, it doesnt make that much of a difference. I personally am not a big fan of stims. I think 2-3 RPM is more than enough because I hate feeling the stim after effect. now if R4W was heavier than RPM then I wouldnt want to jump into that. Im not a big fan of stims. They don't give me a good feeling either. just my 2 cents.

I think the price has been the sticking point stopping many people from trying GD products. I know NOS Ether is rather expensive and many people compare it to other products on the market, but there is not another product that has nearly the same ingredient profile. When i got my Ether, it also doesn't look like your typical powder either, you can tell that there is more than your typical blend in there. I agree though, price is prob the #1 sticking point. I do think most of the products are sourced from the USA and not china though, so you probably are getting a better more reliable product in the end... And reaper, stay out!! :FUfinger: :saw:

 

[joebo]

You are quite a professional at emoticons.

As you are a professional of ruining threads... :toofunny: :toofunny:

 

[CROWLER]

Please do not chime in with your personal opinion unless you have tried both products.

Doesn't really seem fair as your post right above this one you chime in and yet have never used one of the products.

I am on neither side, have never spoken with Chuck, I have PMed one of the owners of AN and he was VERY nice.

Just saying fair is fair and if you want a thread like this it isn't fair. How do you know maybe you can take half the dosage of R4W and it actually would cost less per serving than RPM? On the other hand maybe you need double the dosage and it costs even more.

Why doesn't everyone ask for samples of each and try it yourselves if you can get samples of each.


CROWLER

 

[joebo]

Doesn't really seem fair as your post right above this one you chime in and yet have never used one of the products.

I am on neither side, have never spoken with Chuck, I have PMed one of the owners of AN and he was VERY nice.

Just saying fair is fair and if you want a thread like this it isn't fair. How do you know maybe you can take half the dosage of R4W and it actually would cost less than RPM?

Why doesn't everyone ask for samples of each and try it yourselves if you can get samples of each.


CROWLER

I have used both products and I enjoyed R4W more. I had stated that in numberous posts as well as my current log.

 

[Australian made]

I have two bottles on the way of R4W. they should arrive just in time for when my RPM runs out. Will let you know how it goes.

 

[poison]

1) I'd love to try a sample of R4W.

2) NosEther. It's Kre-Alklyn. Of all the creatines, it seems to get the least positive reviews. I've used one Kre-Alklyn product, and wasn't impressed. I'd be interested in learning why Chuck puts it in his product. Why not use mono or di or gluconate or...

3) Trib. Why all the trib? I've used it in Endotest and other products, and while it boosts libido a ton, I'm not sure it does a whole lot else. Very few studies back it up as an effective ergogenic aid. Add in the price, and it's a tough call to hit the 'put in cart' button.

 

[joebo]

1) I'd love to try a sample of R4W.

2) NosEther. It's Kre-Alklyn. Of all the creatines, it seems to get the least positive reviews. I've used one Kre-Alklyn product, and wasn't impressed. I'd be interested in learning why Chuck puts it in his product. Why not use mono or di or gluconate or...

3) Trib. Why all the trib? I've used it in Endotest and other products, and while it boosts libido a ton, I'm not sure it does a whole lot else. Very few studies back it up as an effective ergogenic aid. Add in the price, and it's a tough call to hit the 'put in cart' button.

I think if kre-alk was available in bulk it would be far more popular. I'd also like to hear the logic behind all the trib.

 

[nosnmiveins]

i know RPM and R4W are both pre workout supps, but i think they are totally different

R4W is more of a thermo then a stim where RPM is more of a stim

I have more energy/aggression with RPM and just sweat my balls off with R4W but dont have a TON of energy

 

[Frank Reynolds]

i know RPM and R4W are both pre workout supps, but i think they are totally different

R4W is more of a thermo then a stim where RPM is more of a stim

I have more energy/aggression with RPM and just sweat my balls off with R4W but dont have a TON of energy

When are you dosing R4w in relation to meals?

 

[nosnmiveins]

When are you dosing R4w in relation to meals?

about 1 hour after a meal, approximately 2 hours pre workout

 

[Frank Reynolds]

I know for me with stims they work better if i take them on an empty stomach, then eat 45min-1hr later. Rather then eat, then pop the pills 45-1hr later..

Have you tried that?

 

[poison]

I think if kre-alk was available in bulk it would be far more popular.

Why?

 

[nosnmiveins]

I know for me with stims they work better if i take them on an empty stomach, then eat 45min-1hr later. Rather then eat, then pop the pills 45-1hr later..

Have you tried that?

no, but i think i might

the way i do it i dont get to eat for about 4 hours...it would be better if i took 3 caps, ate about 30-45 minutes later and then hit the gym maybe an hour after that

i think the R4W is a appetite suppresent for me, i havent seemed as hungry since i started taking it

 

[Frank Reynolds]

no, but i think i might

the way i do it i dont get to eat for about 4 hours...it would be better if i took 3 caps, ate about 30-45 minutes later and then hit the gym maybe an hour after that

i think the R4W is a appetite suppresent for me, i havent seemed as hungry since i started taking it

Try that way..

I know even with RPM i would wake up, pop 3rpm+3drive, wait 1hr, then eat.. Much better effect then when i would wake up, eat, then pop the rpm 1hr later.

 

[EasyEJL]

Try that way..

I know even with RPM i would wake up, pop 3rpm+3drive, wait 1hr, then eat.. Much better effect then when i would wake up, eat, then pop the rpm 1hr later.

For sure, I feel like i'm going to puke if I take any preworkout stim and hit the gym without eating after.

I still want to know (for all the members who are interested) if there is a way to request R4W samples.

 

[Cellardude]

I just popped 3 RPM's I feel good. Not overly energetic but good. Id rather stay that way than to be all over the place. Just my personal preference.

Im pretty sure there are other people out there that use stims such as RPM or R4W as a pick me up. I try to avoid using stims every day. Just when I feel lethargic as hell, Ill pop a few.

 

[nosnmiveins]

For sure, I feel like i'm going to puke if I take any preworkout stim and hit the gym without eating after.

I still want to know (for all the members who are interested) if there is a way to request R4W samples.

not too sure about samples, but ask Chuck

 

[Cellardude]

For sure, I feel like i'm going to puke if I take any preworkout stim and hit the gym without eating after.

I still want to know (for all the members who are interested) if there is a way to request R4W samples.

I too would like to try it before I buy it. hey, maybe it might work well for me and ill pick some up.

 

[joebo]

Why?

Because kre-alk is a trademarked product and not every supplier wants to pay the price to use it. Why would a company pay extra for a product that doesn't work when they could simply use mono, CEE, or one of the other numberous cheaper forms of creatine??

 

[ctrivedi]

I too would like to try it before I buy it. hey, maybe it might work well for me and ill pick some up.

I agree - the two threads (other than the back and forth) have been very interesting reads. At the beginning of next month I'm going to give my RPM sample (THANKS!) a try and report back.. I'd be interested in being able to provide a comparison of the two.

 

[whatastud08]

Lol...wait a minute. This isn't the same thread I posted in...what was the fate of the old one?

 

[poison]

Because kre-alk is a trademarked product and not every supplier wants to pay the price to use it. Why would a company pay extra for a product that doesn't work when they could simply use mono, CEE, or one of the other numberous cheaper forms of creatine??

And people would buy it in bulk if it didn't work?

 

[EasyEJL]

And people would buy it in bulk if it didn't work?

comically, probably

 

[justreading]

Although I am considering giving R4W a try I really think Chuck needs to address the Yohimbe issue:

Why yohimbe and not Yohimbine?

What is the dose?

I understand your right to a proprietary blend but in my opinion Yohimbe is to serious of a drug (yes it has drug like effects) to not give the consumer information about how much they are consuming.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Although I am considering giving R4W a try I really think Chuck needs to address the Yohimbe issue:

Why yohimbe and not Yohimbine?

What is the dose?

I understand your right to a proprietary blend but in my opinion Yohimbe is to serious of a drug (yes it has drug like effects) to not give the consumer information about how much they are consuming.

yeah I would drop the dosage to 2 caps, not dive right into 3, it has less than 9mg yohimbine per 3caps, its just not a "light weight" product.

...

 

[justreading]

Thats a lok of yohimbine... Guess I won't be trying it. Yohimbine kills my kidney (by day 4-5 it hurts)

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Thats a lok of yohimbine... Guess I won't be trying it. Yohimbine kills my kidney (by day 4-5 it hurts)

How much have you taken before? What is the highest you can tollerate?

 

[justreading]

How much have you taken before? What is the highest you can tollerate?

Most I have taken at once is 7.5mg. Over the corse of a day maybe 12.5. I was taking it because i was eating low carb and needed energy plus for the fat loss on low carbs. Kidneys started really hurting. After I stopped and cranked up the crabberry extract the kidney pain went away with no diet change. Also i remembered back and it did the same a few years before but I had blamed that on something else and didnt even realize it could be the Yohimbine

 

[EasyEJL]

for me yohimbine seems to drop off effectiveness kind of rapidly, after a week - 10 days of consistent use I have to raise the dosage. But a week off, and I get good effectiveness again

 

[joebo]

And people would buy it in bulk if it didn't work?

Please show me where people are saying its not working for them. Have you tried any? Probably not, but I see you like to run your mouth about products you have tried. Your actually worse than ReaperX.... I've read countless reviews stating just the opposite.

 

[poison]

joebo, I said I tried krealkalyn. And would you prefer I run my mouth about products I don't like?

PowerFull
KreAlkalyn
Anabolic Pump
SuperPump
Sesamin
Retain
Amp
Adrenaline
XForce
Gabatropin
Ebol


You need more?


If you want cheap kre-alkalyn, go here:

Anabolic Pro-Line Kre-Alkalyn®, 120 Caps

But why? Kre-alkalyns clain to fame is its '10x' superior absorbtion, as it's ph buffered and doesn't turn to 90% creatinine in your stomach. That's proven to be bull****, monohydrate is very stable, and the conversion to creatinine isn't significant enough to be a threat.

Kre-alkalyn® supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-creatinine conversion rates.



Tallon MJ1 and Child R2



1University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 2Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. [email protected]



All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp. (Billings, MT, USA) claim that Kre-alkalyn® (KA) a “Buffered” creatine, is 100% stable in stomach acid and does not convert to creatinine. In contrast, they also claim that creatine monohydrate (CM) is highly pH labile with more than 90% of the creatine converting to the degradation product creatinine in stomach acids. To date, no independent or university laboratory has evaluated the stability of KA in stomach acids, assessed its possible conversion to creatinine, or made direct comparisons of acid stability with CM.



This study examined whether KA supplementation reduced the rate of creatine conversion to creatinine, relative to commercially available CM (CreapureÒ). Creatine products were analyzed by an independent commercial laboratory using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37± 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes and immediately analyzed by HPLC (UV) for creatine and creatinine.



In contrast to the claims of All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp., the rate of creatinine formation from CM was found to be less than 1% of the initial dose, demonstrating that CM is extremely stable under acidic conditions that replicate those of the stomach. This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM. In conclusion the conversion of creatine to creatinine is not a limitation in the delivery of creatine from CM and KA is less stable than CM in the acid conditions of the stomach.

But hey, go ahead and buy the only study showing it to be more effective, yeah, the one funded by the manufacturer, right, that one. Bwaahaaalol.

As for negative reviews, it's simply feedback I've read over the last couple years. Do a search if you are interested; BB.com has lots of talk about it.

 

[joebo]

joebo, I said I tried krealkalyn. And would you prefer I run my mouth about products I don't like?

PowerFull
KreAlkalyn
Anabolic Pump
SuperPump
Sesamin
Retain
Amp
Adrenaline
XForce
Gabatropin
Ebol


You need more?


If you want cheap kre-alkalyn, go here:

Anabolic Pro-Line Kre-Alkalyn®, 120 Caps

But why? Kre-alkalyns clain to fame is its '10x' superior absorbtion, as it's ph buffered and doesn't turn to 90% creatinine in your stomach. That's proven to be bull****, monohydrate is very stable, and the conversion to creatinine isn't significant enough to be a threat.




But hey, go ahead and buy the only study showing it to be more effective, yeah, the one funded by the manufacturer, right, that one. Bwaahaaalol.

As for negative reviews, it's simply feedback I've read over the last couple years. Do a search if you are interested; BB.com has lots of talk about it.

So i guess MST got it all wrong when they made Krea-Ceps too... You should start your own company since you know it all...:stick: :stick:

 

[jan1991]

MOD Edit: removed link

 

[poison]

Maybe. They recently changed the ingredient profile for Shred. AX reformulated Retain. DS reformulated Activite. Sometimes its a refresh, to catch peoples attention and increase sales; sometimes it's because it wasn't as effective as it could have been.

Check this:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/68604-creatine-ethyl-ester.html

Does this mean Neovar is bad? I doubt it, but I'd like to see it reformulated with creatine mono and the same additional ingredients.

BTW, I don't know ****. I'm just bored at work, and take interest in sports supplementation. I read about it. I know if I like what I use. No more, no less.

 

[joebo]

Maybe. They recently changed the ingredient profile for Shred. AX reformulated Retain. DS reformulated Activite. Sometimes its a refresh, to catch peoples attention and increase sales; sometimes it's because it wasn't as effective as it could have been.

Check this:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/68604-creatine-ethyl-ester.html

Does this mean Neovar is bad? I doubt it, but I'd like to see it reformulated with creatine mono and the same additional ingredients.

BTW, I don't know ****. I'm just bored at work, and take interest in sports supplementation. I read about it. I know if I like what I use. No more, no less.

Its all good. In general I think the entire supplement industry is more or less a per user market. CEE didn't work for me, but others swear by it. What may work for one may not work for another. Not trying to incite an e-battle or anything. We can save those for ReaperX

 

[poison]

joebo,

 

[EasyEJL]

Its all good. In general I think the entire supplement industry is more or less a per user market. CEE didn't work for me, but others swear by it. What may work for one may not work for another. Not trying to incite an e-battle or anything. We can say those for ReaperX

for sure, effectiveness is pretty individual

 

[Vitruvian]

I made the mistake of clicking the link as well....... if only there was a smiley I could use to bi%$hslap you through the computer jan...............

 

[joebo]

I made the mistake of clicking the link as well....... if only there was a smiley I could use to bi%$hslap you through the computer jan...............

:trout: :trout: :nutkick: :nutkick:

 

[Chuck Diesel]

1) I'd love to try a sample of R4W.

2) NosEther. It's Kre-Alklyn. Of all the creatines, it seems to get the least positive reviews. I've used one Kre-Alklyn product, and wasn't impressed. I'd be interested in learning why Chuck puts it in his product. Why not use mono or di or gluconate or...

3) Trib. Why all the trib? I've used it in Endotest and other products, and while it boosts libido a ton, I'm not sure it does a whole lot else. Very few studies back it up as an effective ergogenic aid. Add in the price, and it's a tough call to hit the 'put in cart' button.

Every product GET DIESEL puts out works and works well. So really, what does this post have to do with this thread. NOS ETHER is way more than Kre-alk and if you do any search on AM or bb.com you will know what NOS ETHER is and what it does. Also you can search "DIESEL TEST hormone test results" at bb.com and see a thread with at least 6 people who have use DTH and posted increased in total test, free test, reduced estrogen, prolactin and cortisol.....so please with the theory on why GET DIESEL products "might not" be effective......they are.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Although I am considering giving R4W a try I really think Chuck needs to address the Yohimbe issue:

Why yohimbe and not Yohimbine?

What is the dose?

I understand your right to a proprietary blend but in my opinion Yohimbe is to serious of a drug (yes it has drug like effects) to not give the consumer information about how much they are consuming.

Its the only yohimbe avail standardized for yohimbine base, not total yohimbines. There is about 3mg of yohimbine base per cap (Ive said that before), there is nothnig to "address." You need to be asking about products with proprietary caffeine blends.

Its actually illegal to put Yohimbine HCL in anything labeled or sold as a dietary supplement. My contract manufacture is a pharmaceutical manufacture and they actually will not do it even if I told them 2.

Our yohimbe is extracted by a European pharaceutical company and standardized and HPLC tested for yohimbine base.

 

[poison]

Every product GET DIESEL puts out works and works well. So really, what does this post have to do with this thread. NOS ETHER is way more than Kre-alk and if you do any search on AM or bb.com you will know what NOS ETHER is and what it does.

NOS has good ingredients. I just wonder why you think I, when looking for a creatine product, would consider one with an inferior form of creatine (according to the study above), regardless of the rest of the ingredients. Creatine is the king kahuna of sports supplements, studied, proven, and locked down tight. Why use an (apparently) inferior form?

Also you can search "DIESEL TEST hormone test results" at bb.com and see a thread with at least 6 people who have use DTH and posted increased in total test, free test, reduced estrogen, prolactin and cortisol.....so please with the theory on why GET DIESEL products "might not" be effective......they are.

I never go over there to bb.com anymore, but I'll check it out. Again, I'd suspect it's effective despite the trib, not because of it. So again, I'd ask why?

 

[Chuck Diesel]

NOS has good ingredients. I just wonder why you think I, when looking for a creatine product, would consider one with an inferior form of creatine (according to the study above), regardless of the rest of the ingredients. Creatine is the king kahuna of sports supplements, studied, proven, and locked down tight. Why use an (apparently) inferior form?


I never go over there to bb.com anymore, but I'll check it out. Again, I'd suspect it's effective despite the trib, not because of it. So again, I'd ask why?

Nothing in NOS ETHER is "inferior," to anything, NOS ETHER on a whole is not inferior to any creatine based ATP/strength, power product. If you want to speculate why something is effective or not is up 2 you, my job is just to make effective products.

 

[poison]

So what about the study above? Both CEE and KreAlkalyn look inferior to Mono.

 

[saludable24]

Black Holes

So what about the study above? Both CEE and KreAlkalyn look inferior to Mono.

OK kids, look over here. :stick: Do you guys see it?

This is what is called an idealogical black hole. It asks for answers and evidence, but when it receives them it discards them vagrantly and asks the same question again. Unfortuneately, they will always approach anyone's response in this manner no matter how compelling the evidence, perpetually questioning, but never for the purpose of learning, only for the purpose of boosting their ego by trying to make themselves appear to be smarter than anyone else who responds. They suck all light and inteligence out of a thread just like black holes.

It's too bad people chose to be this way when the better option always exists to learn from others' knowledge and experience when they are shared and to share our own in a constructive manner conducive to the enlightenment of others.

 

[poison]

Look at my post history. I'm not one to bash, rip, or try to **** with owners of small, innovative companies.

But I had a question, as did at least one other in this thread, and got an answer which included no evidence. I'd love it if Chuck would answer; sell me the damn product, convince me I'm (or the study is) wrong, and I'll buy it.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

So what about the study above? Both CEE and KreAlkalyn look inferior to Mono.

I dont sell CEE or Krealk or mono by themselves so I dont really care about that study.

I know krealk and mag creatine chelate works well in NOS ETHER and krealk works better than mono gram for gram without the bloat of creatine mono, so thats what I know.