My nootropic stack

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    My nootropic stack


    Planning on running the following nootropic stack in about a week or so. Here is what is will look like. Any input on my dosages would be appreciated.

    500 mgs Phenibut
    1000 mgs Aniracetam
    500 mgs Bacopa Monnieri
    300 mcgs Huperzine A
    7-10 grams Piracetam
    Pyroglutamic Acid - not sure how much to take
    10 grams Choline Cooler (Choline blend)
    3 grams L-Tyrosine
    2 grams ALCAR

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    My only suggestion is to replace Choline Cooler with Alpha-GPC. It's a much better source of choline and it also stimulates the release of GH.

    Also, consider including some R-ALA to quench the free radicals from the use of ALCAR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    Planning on running the following nootropic stack in about a week or so. Here is what is will look like. Any input on my dosages would be appreciated.

    500 mgs Phenibut
    1000 mgs Aniracetam
    500 mgs Bacopa Monnieri
    300 mcgs Huperzine A
    7-10 grams Piracetam
    Pyroglutamic Acid - not sure how much to take
    10 grams Choline Cooler (Choline blend)
    3 grams L-Tyrosine
    2 grams ALCAR
    I agree with The_Reverend that you should add a potent antioxidant to your mix.
    Some of the compounds that my be worth considering, if you have not made up your mind already, include:
    1) Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate: potent brain nutrient; stimulates the growth of new neurites in the brain;
    2) Phosphatidylserine (PS): keeps brain cell membranes fluid and pliant; permits brain cells to absorb nutrients more efficiently; stimulates neurotransmitter activity, improves overall cognitive function);
    3) Ginkgo biloba: fights brain aging; improves circulation to brain; potent anti-oxidant that inhibits free-radical oxidation in brain cells;
    4) Vinpocetine: selectively improves blood flow to the brain; improves the efficiency of oxygen transfer to the brain, as well as the brain's utilization of oxygen; inhibits the clotting or lumping of platelets;
    5) Galantamine: potent cholinesterase inhibitor, permitting higher levels of acetylcholine in the brain; stimulates acetylcholine receptors; helps to inhibit formation of beta-amyloid plaque deposits; regulates release of neurotransmitters such as glutamate, gamma-aminobutyric acid, and serotonin;
    6) Dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE): neurotransmitter enhancer; boosts verbal and creative abilities;
    7) Pantothenic Acid: aids in the production of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine;
    8) Phosphatidylcholine (Lecithin): structural component of cerebral cells; boosts neurotransmitter (acetylcholine) levels.

    The list may continue.
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to strategicmove again.

    The Reverend - You got reps

    Thanks for the suggestions. I might go with the Alpha-GPC after all because I have heard good things about it. I have ALA so I could add that in with no problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to strategicmove again.

    The Reverend - You got reps

    Thanks for the suggestions. I might go with the Alpha-GPC after all because I have heard good things about it. I have ALA so I could add that in with no problem.
    Thanks for the reps!

    I've been on my current stack for about 6 months and I love it. It's piracetam (5grams), PLCAR(2grams), alpha-GPC(1gram), and R-ALA(300mg). Its simple and gives me great focus and energy.
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    have any of you tried sulbutiamine (sp?) in a nootropic stack? more specifically with DMAE ? the DMAE sounds like it helps with speech similar to the way the sulbutiamine does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    Planning on running the following nootropic stack in about a week or so. Here is what is will look like. Any input on my dosages would be appreciated.

    500 mgs Phenibut
    1000 mgs Aniracetam
    500 mgs Bacopa Monnieri
    300 mcgs Huperzine A
    7-10 grams Piracetam
    Pyroglutamic Acid - not sure how much to take
    10 grams Choline Cooler (Choline blend)
    3 grams L-Tyrosine
    2 grams ALCAR
    For me (you are obviously different) that is to much bacopa, and to much ALCAR, my head would explode.

    My current noot stack is Aniracetam 800mg,Idebenone 180mg and 1g Alpha-GPC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nelix View Post
    For me (you are obviously different) that is to much bacopa, and to much ALCAR, my head would explode.

    My current noot stack is Aniracetam 800mg,Idebenone 180mg and 1g Alpha-GPC.
    I agree. Too much ALCAR fogs my mind. 1g seems to be the sweet spot for me as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12;
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to strategicmove again.

    The Reverend - You got reps

    Thanks for the suggestions. I might go with the Alpha-GPC after all because I have heard good things about it. I have ALA so I could add that in with no problem.
    How did you finally decide?
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    What about lecithin instead of alpha-gpc? Very similar (alpha GPC is just without a cholesterol tail) and WAY cheaper.
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    lecithin gives me nightmares.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner;
    What about lecithin instead of alpha-gpc? Very similar (alpha GPC is just without a cholesterol tail) and WAY cheaper.
    The reason, as you know, is that, alpha-gpc, although a phospholipid metabolite of lecithin, is comparatively extremely well absorbed, crosses the brain barrier, and better promotes the synthesis and secretion of acetylcholine, an essential neurotransmitter involved in muscle control, sleep, and cognition. Furthermore, alpa-gpc supports neurons and enhances signal transmission by acting as a membrane phospholipids precursor.
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    500mg of phenibut is rather low in my opinion, it wouldnt do anything for me even if i only took it like once a month, ie: if i didnt have a tolerance. but if that works for you, thats great, just adding my 2 cents. if you are using it for sleep then 500mg should be fine though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by heebs10 View Post
    500mg of phenibut is rather low in my opinion, it wouldnt do anything for me even if i only took it like once a month, ie: if i didnt have a tolerance. but if that works for you, thats great, just adding my 2 cents. if you are using it for sleep then 500mg should be fine though.
    When combining as many Nootropics as I am, it is a good idea to cut the dosages of each. I have used upwards of 6 grams of phenibut.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topfueljunkie View Post
    have any of you tried sulbutiamine (sp?) in a nootropic stack? more specifically with DMAE ? the DMAE sounds like it helps with speech similar to the way the sulbutiamine does.
    Yes. Sulb works really well with language barriers. I did a log on here a while back on it. I made the mistake of using it for three months strait, started getting headaches. Take it from me only use for a breif amount od time than get off. I use it if Im learning a new skill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    When combining as many Nootropics as I am, it is a good idea to cut the dosages of each. I have used upwards of 6 grams of phenibut.
    this is a good point, you obviously know what you are doing. should be a pleasant stack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    Yes. Sulb works really well with language barriers. I did a log on here a while back on it. I made the mistake of using it for three months strait, started getting headaches. Take it from me only use for a breif amount od time than get off. I use it if Im learning a new skill.
    Headaches? Really..hmmmm, interesting. I've only tried sulb once (Biotest spike) and the very first time I used it was absolutely amazing. But it seems I built up a tolerance to it and felt nothing the very next day. That or the first dose was the best placebo effect ever! Third day I upped the dose and still felt nothing so on the fourth day I upped the dose again and WHOA! that was a bad idea! I felt shaky and a little dizzy and started getting sweaty and just had an overall feeling of something being not right in my body. I was quite nervous when that happened but those ill effects only lasted about two hours before subsiding. No headaches though, but then again, everyone is different.

    How long of a break do you take before resuming use to avoid the headaches? Outside of the headaches, did the (good) effects wear off or decrease the longer you used it like you started to build up a tolerance to it ?
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    sulbutiamine

    If this doesnt answer your questions Ill be glad to answer.
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    Just a quick update. I am getting the most benefit from the Bacopa Monnieri because I tried using it alone and for sure, that is the best thing in my stack. Bacopa is amazing! I feel so relaxed and mentally sharp. I also read a study that showed Bacopa increased T4 levels and I can confirm this because my waist is getting tighter and my pants lose around the waist. I wish Nutra carried this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    What about lecithin instead of alpha-gpc? Very similar (alpha GPC is just without a cholesterol tail) and WAY cheaper.
    Lecithin's choline content is not spectacular.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    Just a quick update. I am getting the most benefit from the Bacopa Monnieri because I tried using it alone and for sure, that is the best thing in my stack. Bacopa is amazing! I feel so relaxed and mentally sharp. I also read a study that showed Bacopa increased T4 levels and I can confirm this because my waist is getting tighter and my pants lose around the waist. I wish Nutra carried this.
    I am a big fan of Bacopa, for sure.

    It can be arranged to carry it at Nutra, since I will be needing some for Clear Edge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Lecithin's choline content is not spectacular.
    Isn't it typically 25% PC? Alpha-GPC usually comes 50%.

    You can pick up a pound of lecithin for $5-$6. The cheapest I've seen AGPC was for $195 per pound.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Isn't it typically 25% PC? Alpha-GPC usually comes 50%.

    You can pick up a pound of lecithin for $5-$6. The cheapest I've seen AGPC was for $195 per pound.
    I thought it was closer to 10%.

    Choline Citrate is pretty cheap.
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    I'm NOW Foods' makes one standardized for 25%. Generic lecithin, it's about 15%ish.

    Citrate is a bargain as well.

    I opted to use lecithin for the preparation of my current sinner nootropic cocktal because (1) it was sold out at the time (2) I know what taste I can expect with lecithin, and how to go accordingly. (came out tasting pretty good, actually)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Now Foods Lecithin Write up (From Nutraplanet)
    When medical researchers use the term lecithin, they are referring to a purified substance called phosphatidylcholine (PC). Supplements labeled as lecithin usually contain 10-20% PC. Relatively pure PC supplements are generally labeled as phosphatidylcholine. PC best duplicates supplements used in medical research.

    Choline by itself (without the phosphatidyl group) is also available in foods and supplements. In high amounts, however, pure choline can make people smell like fish, so it's rarely used, except in the small amounts found in multivitamin supplements.



    What does it do? PC acts as a supplier of choline, which is needed for cell membrane integrity and to facilitate the movement of fats in and out of cells. It is also a component of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine and is needed for normal brain functioning, particularly in infants. Although the human body can synthesize choline, additional amounts from the diet are considered essential under certain circumstances. For this reason, PC has been used in a number of preliminary studies for a wide variety of neurological and psychiatric disorders, though not every study suggests that supplemental choline is capable of reaching the brain. Choline participates in many functions involving cellular components called phospholipids.



    Where is it found? Choline, the major constituent of PC, is found in soybeans, liver, oatmeal, cabbage, and cauliflower. Soybeans, egg yolks, meat, and some vegetables contain PC. Lecithin (containing 10-20% PC) is added to many processed foods in small amounts for the purpose of maintaining texture consistency.

    Lecithin contains 25% phosphatidyl choline, which comprises a major portion of all cell membranes. NOW Lecithin Granules are derived entirely from soybeans. Lecithin is also used to emulsify fats in baking and cooking.

    I mean, unless I'm reading this wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    I mean, unless I'm reading this wrong.
    I was just going by CHOLINE content...!=PC.

    Not sure by weight how much choline in PC...my google-fu is weak tonight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    I was just going by CHOLINE content...!=PC.

    Not sure by weight how much choline in PC...my google-fu is weak tonight.
    There's really not a definite answer to this, however, since there's no set ruling as to what carboxylic (fatty) acids are bound to the gyceryl group. Don't worry, your google-fu power isn't deteriorating.

    Yes, the content of actual choline is going to be smaller; however, lecithin not only has a greater oral bioavailability than choline salts, but tends to elevate serum choline levels for a longer period of time.

    If anything, I would say a combination of lecithin and another choline (such as citrate) might make for an effective as well as economical stack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post

    If anything, I would say a combination of lecithin and another choline (such as citrate) might make for an effective as well as economical stack.
    I'll agree with you here, but mostly because lecithin has MANY benefits far beyond just a source for Choline.

    And as you pouint out, it is extremely cheap.

    Should be able to pick up Bulk Lecithin at any natural foods store worth a dime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    I'll agree with you here, but mostly because lecithin has MANY benefits far beyond just a source for Choline.

    And as you pouint out, it is extremely cheap.

    Should be able to pick up Bulk Lecithin at any natural foods store worth a dime.
    Actually where I picked up my lecithin. And a good thing I did, the girl working the cashier was HOT! It was a rather enjoyable lecithin purchase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Actually where I picked up my lecithin. And a good thing I did, the girl working the cashier was HOT! It was a rather enjoyable lecithin purchase.
    did you tell her one of the side benefits of Lecithin supplementation is better quality/bigger loads?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    did you tell her one of the side benefits of Lecithin supplementation is better quality/bigger loads?
    20 minutes after her shift ended....she found that out the hard way. (No, not really, that'd be awesome though).

    Oh, I've also using this in conjunction with ALCAR, which Ive read that increased levels of free carnitines increases sperm quality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    20 minutes after her shift ended....she found that out the hard way. (No, not really, that'd be awesome though).
    "It's the most natural, organic thing in the world, baby"
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    "It's the most natural, organic thing in the world, baby"
    lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    20 minutes after her shift ended....she found that out the hard way. (No, not really, that'd be awesome though).

    Oh, I've also using this in conjunction with ALCAR, which Ive read that increased levels of free carnitines increases sperm quality.
    Yes you are correct. Alcar is one of the only compounds I know o that increases male fertility. In additon it speeds up Testostrone metabolism. I have a theory that Alcar may be used in conjunction with a natural test booster for better results. It could be off and it makes sense to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    Just a quick update. I am getting the most benefit from the Bacopa Monnieri because I tried using it alone and for sure, that is the best thing in my stack. Bacopa is amazing! I feel so relaxed and mentally sharp. I also read a study that showed Bacopa increased T4 levels and I can confirm this because my waist is getting tighter and my pants lose around the waist. I wish Nutra carried this.
    Great news, I need to experiment with Bacopa a little more. Should be good at night to unwind, possibly with some theanine...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    ...I also read a study that showed Bacopa increased T4 levels...
    Agree. Bacopa significantly boosts thyroid function. It modulates thyroid-hormone levels via enhancement of T4 synthesis and conversion of T4 (normally synthesized from free tyrosine) to biologically active T3. It is also a potent adaptogen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by asianbabe View Post
    Great news, I need to experiment with Bacopa a little more. Should be good at night to unwind, possibly with some theanine...
    Lipotrophin-PM contains Bacopa Monnieri standardized to 40% Bacosides! Besides, Lipotrophin-PM also contains Mucuna Pruriens (standardized to 25% L-Dopa), Green Tea Extract (50% EGCG), and Banaba Extract (1% Corosolic Acid). Might be worth considering
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    Huperzine and Galantamine


    Huperzine and galantamine have both worked VERY well for me.

    Huperzine I take 50 mg every 2 hours when I'm studying hardcore or just really needing to get things done. Half-life is about 4 hours and can leave you feeling kind of dumb for a half hour or so.

    Galantamine I take 4 mg usually just once in a day because it has an 8 hour half-life.

    Dosage is tricky. Too little = nothing. Too much = depression symptoms, not cool. I currently take the huperzine because the galantamine I have is in 8 mg form and I'm too lazy to break it open; plus I once took the 8 mg galantamine on an empty stomach and felt like absolute **** for 8 hours; 2 of which were in the bathroom. I don't know why, but it's pretty important to take these with some food; or at least it is for me to, heh.

    Also, remember, there is always the pharma route where you can buy Aricept (donezepil), Memantine, or Exelon (rivastigmine). These are Alzheimer's drugs and Exelon is even available in a trans-dermal patch form.

    Half-lives of the pharma drugs:

    Aricept: 70 hours (almost 3 days)
    Memantine: 60 - 100 hours (2.5 to 4 days)
    Exelon: 1.5 hours (patch - 24 hours)

    I looked up prices for these from indian pharms and they come to:
    Aricept: $ 77 for 50 x 10mg = around $0.77 per day
    Memantine $180 for 50 x 10mg = around $1.14 per day
    Exelon: $ 38 for 50 x 6 mg = around $0.76 per day (not sure about patch)

    I thought about doing one of these, but have had good luck with the huperzine. I bet there are some people out there taking this stuff that don't have Alzheimer's though, and I bet they don't forget much, but I also think they might experience significant down-regulation of their nicotinic acetylcholine receptors because of the huge half-lives. Though it may be a tad bit unethical to use the pharma without having Alzheimer's, it's a way lesser offense than all these college kids absolutely abusing adderall and such.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jermcpicky View Post
    Huperzine and galantamine have both worked VERY well for me.

    Huperzine I take 50 mg every 2 hours when I'm studying hardcore or just really needing to get things done. Half-life is about 4 hours and can leave you feeling kind of dumb for a half hour or so.

    Galantamine I take 4 mg usually just once in a day because it has an 8 hour half-life.

    Dosage is tricky. Too little = nothing. Too much = depression symptoms, not cool. I currently take the huperzine because the galantamine I have is in 8 mg form and I'm too lazy to break it open; plus I once took the 8 mg galantamine on an empty stomach and felt like absolute **** for 8 hours; 2 of which were in the bathroom. I don't know why, but it's pretty important to take these with some food; or at least it is for me to, heh...
    Galantamine (Galanthamine) is said to be one of the most effective nootropics around. By the way, 50mg of Huperzine every two hours sound exceedingly high! My recollection of the recommended dosage is more like 50mcg once or twice daily. I also recall that Huperzine A should not be taken, if one is also on other acetylcholinesterase inhibitors such as Tacrine or Aricept.
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