Originally Posted by whitedevil74

I am not going to get into an e-war but every single ingredient in Body Octane has several scientific studies demonstrating its effectiveness IN HUMANS FOR ATHLETIC PURPOSES, studies again conducted by facilities in the United States. Body Octane has more research behind it than any other performance based product on the market. MAN Sports is a competitor of Nimbus as our product Swell is similar and I essentially arguing against my interest here and I have absolutely nothing to gain by arguing for a competitors product. Body Octane is one of the best formulated products on the market for performance, its only drawback is price. Now I challenge you to show me an equal amount of research on Drive that was conducted at reputable labs inside the US. Otherwise you are just coming off as a rep pushing a product. I like AN's products, but Drive and RPN are just not as useful in this context as Body Octane.

Again I am not trying to start a fight or bash your products but I would like to see something other than a reps word as evidence for this products effectiveness for athletic performance.

Here is the evidence for Body Octane.
Scientifically engineered to smash the contributors that lead to muscle fatigue, limit explosive muscular fire-power, and derail the rate in recovery from physical activity, athletes and active lifestyle enthusiasts who use the new High-Voltage BODYOCTANE™ will take performance to unknown heights.

Make no mistake about it, High-Voltage BODYOCTANE™ sets the stage for unprecedented athletic performance, but it also speeds recuperation from training. That means not only will you be able to perform better, harder and longer no matter what your sport, but you can stay on top of your game because High-Voltage BODYOCTANE™ speeds recuperation to a point of no dispute.

So what's the bottom line? High-Voltage BODYOCTANE™ is POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT for athletes and weekend warriors from all walks of life. Experience the benefits of being able to train harder and longer, while speeding recuperation times and FUEL THE DRIVE™ with High-Voltage BODYOCTANE™.
SO WHAT ARE THE RESEARCHED BACK INGREDIENTS IN High-Voltage BODY OCTANE™ AND WHAT DO THEY DO?

CITRULLINE MALATE

Used and proven effective for over 20 years in Europe as a treatment for fatigue and dementia, Citrulline Malate (CM) has made its way into the world of athletic performance thanks to the research and development team at MAN Sports Products Inc™.

This unique combination of the amino acid Citrullline and the organic salt Malate offers athletes with a new choice in improving performance and recovery. As an intermediate in the Urea Cycle, Citrulline aids in the removal of endotoxins such as lactic acid and ammonia1. These endotoxins are produced through intense physical activity, protein metabolism, and catabolic states. Endotoxins damage living cells and wreak havoc on athletic performance2.

Researches also point to Citrulline as possibly a greater alternative to Arginine for enhancing plasma Arginine levels because of Citrullines effects on endogenous Arginine synthesis3 -meaning that CM may be a superior alternative to Arginine for regulating Nitric Oxide production, growth hormone release, insulin and creatine production. And that's not all, it has also been discovered that supplementing CM at a dose as low as 6 grams a day significantly reduced muscle fatigue, increased ATP production by 34%, and caused a 20% increase in Phosphocreatine recovery after exercise4. What this means is that Citrulline Malate improved aerobic metabolism, cellular energy production, and promoted muscular recovery.

When all's said and done athletes using Citrulline Malate will have more energy to train better and harder and will recover faster from their training sessions.


L-CARNITINE L-TARTRATE (LCLT)

Although referred to as an amino acid, L-Carnitine is a natural nutrient belonging to the B-Vitamin family (BT). It is mainly stored in skeletal muscle and the heart and can be synthesized naturally in the body. However under certain physiological conditions the body may not produce sufficient levels of Carnitine.

L-Carnitine's main function inside the body is to transport long chain fatty acids into the mitochondria (furnace of the cell), where fats can be broken down and converted to energy. As a result, L-Carnitine is necessary for the production of energy from fat5. Past studies have revealed the effectiveness of L-Carnitine in relevance to exercise performance, cardiovascular health, weight management, and much more�

Athletes have long favored L-Carnitine supplementation for its ability to increase VO2 max6,7, which is the highest volume of oxygen a person can consume during exercise. What's more, L-Carnitine supplementation reduces lactic acid buildup and spares glycogen and as a result delays fatigue8. And that's not all.

Enter L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate (LCLT). This new age Carnitine compound has just recently been discovered to have some fascinating recuperation properties. More specifically, research on LCLT at a dose of 2 grams a day was shown to reduce the amount of muscle disruption after weight training9. Circulating markers of muscle damage after exercise lowered, energy substrate breakdown during and after exercise lowered and muscle soreness after exercise was decreased from those who supplemented with LCLT9. Since exercise depletes Carnitine concentrations in the blood cells, the result is less than optimal blood flow and oxygen supply to muscles. The positive results from LCLT administration are believed to be a result of enhanced oxygen supply to the muscle by means of increased blood flow. In addition to that, it appears that LCLT may support protein synthesis and anabolic response to exercise by protecting anabolic receptors from excessive damage as a result of resistant exercise10.

In simple terms, the use of LCLT not only will enhance performance and prevent fatigue, but more importantly LCLT promotes recovery.


MUSCLE CARNOSINE BOOSTERS BETA ALANINE & L-HISTIDINE

Carnosine (beta-alanyl-L-histidine) is a naturally-occurring dipeptide discovered in Russia in 1900 and is made up of amino acids Beta-Alanine and L-Histidine. Carnosine is found in skeletal muscle, heart and brain. Since much of the research with carnosine was performed in Russia, it has been largely unavailable to the Western World until just recently. Carnosine is now becoming more and more recognized for its remarkable potential as a highly effective anti-aging nutrient...But there's a lot more!

Antioxidant, buffering, free radical scavenging and even neurotransmitter properties are attributed to Carnosine. Carnosine is also found primarily in type II muscle fibres11,12. These are the “fast-twitch” fibres that are important for explosive movements such as sprinting and weight training. Increasing muscle Carnosine concentrations are important to athletes because Carnosine increases intramuscular hydrogen ion (H+) buffering capacity. And the production of H+ is the result of energy release, leading to a burning sensation and muscle fatigue. Basically what this means is that Carnosine increases your ability to work harder by preventing your muscle from becoming too acidic during times of stress by picking up Hydrogen ions. More Carnosine in muscle means you can keep muscle acid in check and train harder and longer.13

Another thing you need to know about Carnosine is that it is a natural substrate for the production of Nitric Oxide18. In fact it is the true substrate for NOS (nitric oxide synthase) activity, which is the true enzyme that is responsible for generating Nitric Oxide. Are you starting to see what a versatile and truly remarkable compound Carnosine is? There is more.

Carnosine prevents muscular injuries and speeds up recovery times in sports. An explanation to this is that high-intensity performance causes oxidative stress in the muscles and this result in depleted Carnosine stores. The free radicals produced through high intensity muscular activity cause lipid peroxidation as well as carbonylation of proteins and phospholipids.

This causes proteins to break up in a process known as proteolysis. Since protein carbonylation precedes the loss of membrane integrity, it may be associated with the toxic process leading to cell aging and fatality. Carnosine combats these reactions if there is enough of it in the muscles.

So why not start mega dosing Carnosine? Dietary intake of Carnosine gets broken down into the amino acids Beta-Alanine and Histidine and in turn gets resynthesized into Carnosine in the muscle. Carnosine biosynthesis is dependent on availability of Beta-Alanine and L-Histidine. If truth be told, a deficiency in L-Histidine reduces muscle Carnosine levels, while supplementation with it increases Carnosine levels14,15,16. Another study done on Beta-Alanine and L-Histidine for 30 days increased muscle Carnosine by 13%17!

The take home message is this. Oral supplementation of Carnosine can lead to increased concentrations of Carnosine. Supplementation with Beta-Alanine and L-Histidine may prove to be a more effective way for getting the benefits of elevated levels of Carnosine. And with these elevated levels of Carnosine, increased athletic performance, and a great deal more is the result.

GLUCURONOLACTONE (DGL)

D-Glucurono-y-lactone, or in organic chemistry nomenclature, D-glucurono-3, 6-lactone (henceforth referred to as DGL) is a natural metabolite of glucose and regulates the formation of glycogen. DGL is most likely hepatoprotective19, meaning it will reduce ill effect or even improve the physical state and function of the liver, which is where the metabolism of glucose begins enzymatically. By protecting glycogen stores and their synthesis, DGL is a ergogenic aid that can help fuel both exercise/athletic performance and recovery.

Some of its positive properties/benefits of DGL have been known to include acting as a stimulant, helping in memory retention, concentration and reaction time and promoting a positive mood20,21.

ASPARTIC ACID

Aspartic acid also known as aspartate is a non essential amino acid. Research indicates that aspartic acid may act as an excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain. Of further interest to bodybuilders and athletes, aspartic acid is a metabolite in the urea cycle, aiding the body in removing detrimental ammonia. It also participates in gluconeogenisis, which is the process in which the body generates glucose from non-carbohydrate sources.

Studies show that aspartic may increase resistance to fatigue and increase endurance. Low levels of aspartic acid have been associated with chronic fatigue. Aspartic acids antifatigue and energizing effects may be a result of its role in the kreb cycle. During the kreb cycle, aspartic acid aids in the production of asparagine, arginine, lysine, methionine, threonine, the BCAA isoleucine and many nucleotides, all important amino acids and biochemical's that support energy and fight fatigue.






1. A. Callis, B. Magnan de Bornier, J.J. Serrano, H. Bellet, and R. Saumade. Activity of Citrulline Malate on Acid-Base Balance and Blood Ammonia and Amino Acid Levels

2. Wilkerson JE, Batterson DL, Horvath SM. Exercise induced changes in blood ammonia levels in humans. Eur J Apple Physiol 1977; 37:255-263.

3. Dhanakoti, S. N. et al, Am. J. Physiol. 259:E437-E442, (1990)

4. Bendahan D, Mattei JP, Ghattas B, Confort-Gouny S, Le Guern ME, Cozzone PJ. Br J Sports Med. 2002 Aug; 36(4):282-9. Citrulline/malate promotes aerobic energy production in human exercising muscle.

5. Strack E, Rotzsch W, Lorenz I. Biological action of carnitine in animal bodies.

6. Marconi C, et al. Effects of L-carnitine loading on the aerobic and anaerobic performance of endurance athletes. Eur J Appl Physiol 1985; 54:131-135.

7. Angeline C, et al. Clinical study of efficacy of L-carnitine and metabolic observations in exercise physiology. Clinical Aspects of Human Carnitine Deficiency. Pergamon Press, NY: 1986:38.

8. Brevetti G, et al. Increases in walking distance in patients with peripheral vascular disease treated with L-carnitine: a double-blind crossover study. Circulation 1988; 77:767-773.

9. Volek JS, Kraemer WJ, Rubin MR, Gomez AL, Ratamess NA, Gaynor P. L-Carnitine L-tartrate supplementation favorably affects markers of recovery from exercise stress. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Feb;282(2):E474-82

10. Kraemer WJ, Volek JS, French DN, Rubin MR, Sharman MJ, Gomez AL, Ratamess NA, Newton RU, Jemiolo B, Craig BW, Hakkinen K. The effects of L-carnitine L-tartrate supplementation on hormonal responses to resistance exercise and recovery. J Strength Cond Res. 2003 Aug; 17(3):455-62.

11. Harris RC, Dunnett M, Greenhaff PL: Carnosine and Taurine contents in individual fibres of human vastus lateralis muscle. J Sport Sci 16: 639 -643, 1998.


12. Parkhouse WS, McKenzie DC, Hochacha PW: Buffering capacity of deproteinised human vastus lateralis muscle. J Appl Physiol 58: 14-17, 1995

13. Suzuki Y, Ito O, Mukai N, Takahashi H, Takamatsu K. High level of skeletal muscle carnosine contributes to the latter half of exercise performance during 30-s maximal cycle ergometer sprinting. Jpn J Physiol. 2002 Apr;52(2):199-205.

14. Salah, E, Garbilla, Alan J. Sinclair, Carnoisine: Physiological properties and therapeutic potential. Age and Ageing 2000; 29: 207-210

15. Amend JF, Strumeye DH, Fisher H: Effect of Dietary Histidine on tissue concentrations of Histidine containing dipeptides in adult ****erels. J Nutr 109: 1779-1786,1979

16. Easter RA & Baker DH: Nitrogen metabolism, tissue Carnosine concentration and blood chemistry of gravid swine fed graded levels of Histidine. J Nutr: 120-125 1977

17. Dunnett M & Harris RC: Influence of oral Beta Alanine and L-Histidine supplementation on the Carnosine content of gluteus medius. Equine Vet J 30: 499-504,1999

18. Alaghband-Zadeh ym 2001 The natural substrate for nitric oxide synthase activity. Cell Biochem Funct. 2001 Dec;19(4):277-80

19. 4. XU Ruiyun, LING Yunbiao, YANG Hongzhi, WANG Zhuangliu and QIU.

20. Reyner LA, Horne JA. Efficacy of a 'functional energy drink' in counteracting driver sleepiness. Physiol Behav. 2002 Mar;75(3):331-5.

21. Alford C, Cox H, Wescott R. The effects of red bull energy drink on human performance and mood. Amino Acids. 2001;21(2):139-50

MAN Sports | Metabolic Augmenting Nutrition
MAN Sports | Metabolic Augmenting Nutrition

Def. not arguing against Body Octane (in my post I said it would help recovery, and it does), or Cordygen 5- please re-read my post Drive already has a large amount of cordy, plus naringin, which allows for increased bioavaliability and tends to make many compounds more effective- that's basically all I said- Cordygen 5 is great product, and I have heard nothing but good reviews-and if you are interested in using several different strains of Cordyceps, it would be your best bet....

It's probably possible to focus it a little more: CM will have less effect on very short fast sprints, whereas the agression and energy from RPM and the endurance from Drive will come into play more. On the longer sprints > multi KM runs, CM might prove better, if you're pitting them against each other, not doubling up, that is. I say mega-stack!!!

Originally Posted by poison

It's probably possible to focus it a little more: CM will have less effect on very short fast sprints, whereas the agression and energy from RPM and the endurance from Drive will come into play more. On the longer sprints > multi KM runs, CM might prove better, if you're pitting them against each other, not doubling up, that is. I say mega-stack!!!

Most of the people who I train w/ and who I tested the first versions of Drive and RPM on (and the basis of my recommendations) run in 60-200m mostly shorter-type events.....

Makes sense! ^ Football too, same thing.

BTW, I have way more endurance when I take my Drive/RPM about 1-5-2 hours pre-workout, instead of 45-60 minutes before. Is this common, or just me?

whitedevil, wouldn't it just be cheaper to buy the ingredients of Body Octane in bulk, plus you would have a lot more of each ingredient?

It's not that much cheaper, and bulk tastes bad. I'll pay the $5-7 extra for the convenience and flavor.

Originally Posted by AM07

whitedevil, wouldn't it just be cheaper to buy the ingredients of Body Octane in bulk, plus you would have a lot more of each ingredient?

Not really, that is what is surprising, there have been a few threads comparing the price of bulk ingredients vs. buying the MAN product and they are about the same price. Body Octane is expensive because it uses a very high dosage of Citrulline Malate which is just not cheap. Many companies like to list citrulline malate as an ingredient,but as far as I know Body Octane is the one of the only products (along with MST's Citruvol) that list the exact amount of Citrulline Malate in their product. Additionally Body Octane is the only company to use the same dosage as what was used in the studies that demonstrated Citrulline Malate's effectiveness.

To get a similar effect from Swell I need to add about 5 scoops instead of the two scoops listed on the panel. However, I do like the Poseidon complex in Swell for hydration purposes. The most effective stack for performance I imagine would be Body Octane + Poseidon (or Blast for an extra kick) + cordygen5. I really like Cordygen5 and noticed immediate results when using it. A good budget stack would probably be Swell + Cordygen 5 + RPN (for a little kick) RPN does seem good at increasing focus and a bit of aggression. This would probably be pretty kick ass if a person does not want to shell out the money for Body Octane, just make sure you double dose the Swell.

and make sure you're training for power in the gym and not lifting like a bodybuilder.

Originally Posted by rms80

Your math is off some

Each capsule of Drive= 500 mg of raw material per capsule So in a 3 capsule serving= 1,500 mg of raw material, 6 capsules 3,000 mg, and so on.....and we don't use fillers, just active contributing ingredients- this is why we only use 5 ingredients.

Without giving away the formula (one I worked on and tested for months), we have more than 100mg of cordy per capsule

Originally Posted by drive

110 Capsules
Supplement Facts
Serving Size1Capsule
Servings Per Container110

Amount Per Capsule.... 500mg
StAR 3,5 Anaplex:
Icariin (50% Extract)*
Forslean(TM) (20%)* Registered Trademark Of Sabinsa Corp. And Hold Patent #5,804,596

A4E2 ATP Synthase:
Dodder Seed (20:1 Cuscuta Chineses)*
Naringin (98% Extract)*
Cordyceps (7% Cordyceptic Acid)*

without getting into a fight, if at all possible, i just want to ask you a few questions. 1) how is there more than 100 mg's of cordyceps/serving if it's listed last in a 500 mg blend? it's not possible, if you listed the ingredients in order from most to least abundant. 2) your reading comprehension skills may be off. i said you'd need 22.5 caps of drive to equal the amount of cordyceps in c5, not the entire blend. if there really is more than 100 mg's of cordyceps then what i said wouldn't be entirely true. my math was right on. 3)

Originally Posted by drive

Directions: Take on an empty stomach first in the morning, then 1 hour pre-workout or mid-afternoon. Do not take within 3 hours of bedtime. Has both immediate and cumulative effects that improve with continued use.

your label clearly recommends two caps, not 6, so i don't know how anybody is supposed to know to take six.

Originally Posted by ncangey0513

without getting into a fight, if at all possible, i just want to ask you a few questions. 1) how is there more than 100 mg's of cordyceps/serving if it's listed last in a 500 mg blend? it's not possible, if you listed the ingredients in order from most to least abundant. 2) your reading comprehension skills may be off. i said you'd need 22.5 caps of drive to equal the amount of cordyceps in c5, not the entire blend. if there really is more than 100 mg's of cordyceps then what i said wouldn't be entirely true. my math was right on. 3) your label clearly recommends two caps, not 6, so i don't know how anybody is supposed to know to take six.

Interesting way of not trying to start a fight- btw my reading comprehension is quite good- thank you very much

1) We have 2 different complexes on the label- it is a common practice industry-wide to label ingredients in this manner; in each complex, the ingredients are listed from highest amount to lowest amount- it is designed to keep people from copying the formula.

2) Interesting logic

3) We have a bodyweight-dependant dosage chart on each product- I am sitting here looking at it right now- it is very in-depth, and gives explicit instructions on how to dose Drive, based on body weight.


How did a recommendation on products for a sprinter turn into this?

Alright boys, break it up, break it up *Highlanda catches an elbow to the face* WTF!!!!! lol

From a third party standpoint (not calling you guys out here, but there is always some natural bias of course), and from a standpoint where I have used both products, I can honestly say they would be a dangerous stack together. Both have some great properties (some shared, some very different), and I'm considering giving them both a go-around with my next stack-a-roodoodle.

In all seriousness though, if I were to try and choose between the two for a sprinter stack - I wouldn't. I would bring both to the table, with (in my opinion) Drive for the increased strength and recovery and Cordygen5 for the increased endurance. Yes, I do believe both have effects on both sides (strength AND endurance), but in my experiences Drive stands out *more* as the strength/power/recomp agent while Cordygen5 stands out *more* as the VO2/endurance agent (as it was designed purely to be).
Reps to both companies, as they have proven to be some of the most effective supplements in the industry, something this entire board could attest to!

Originally Posted by Highlanda01602

Alright boys, break it up, break it up *Highlanda catches an elbow to the face* WTF!!!!! lol

From a third party standpoint (not calling you guys out here, but there is always some natural bias of course), and from a standpoint where I have used both products, I can honestly say they would be a dangerous stack together. Both have some great properties (some shared, some very different), and I'm considering giving them both a go-around with my next stack-a-roodoodle.

In all seriousness though, if I were to try and choose between the two for a sprinter stack - I wouldn't. I would bring both to the table, with (in my opinion) Drive for the increased strength and recovery and Cordygen5 for the increased endurance. Yes, I do believe both have effects on both sides (strength AND endurance), but in my experiences Drive stands out *more* as the strength/power/recomp agent while Cordygen5 stands out *more* as the VO2/endurance agent (as it was designed purely to be).
Reps to both companies, as they have proven to be some of the most effective supplements in the industry, something this entire board could attest to!

Agreed- I LOVE cordyceps as a supplement- and the more that I think about it- Cordygen 5 and Drive probably would not be overkill- I would be interested to see how they stacked together.....

If one were to use Drive and Cordygen5 together, you would probably only have to dose C5 before exercise sessions and you'd still get the immune benefits of cordyceps from the everyday intake with Drive. Save a lot of money.

We're talking sprints here people..... maybe we have different definitions of sprints. lol

I could care less about endurance when my point a is only 100 meters from my point b. I'd be looking for something to increase my speed off the start. Regardless, what we have here is an agreement that all of the said products are worthwhile, but a disagreement as to what situations they are best suited for. I have a feeling no one is viewing this for learning purposes any longer, so the arguing will stop now.

Originally Posted by Force of Green

If one were to use Drive and Cordygen5 together, you would probably only have to dose C5 before exercise sessions and you'd still get the immune benefits of cordyceps from the everyday intake with Drive. Save a lot of money.

good input here

Originally Posted by rms80

Agreed- I LOVE cordyceps as a supplement- and the more that I think about it- Cordygen 5 and Drive probably would not be overkill- I would be interested to see how they stacked together.....

I have a bottle of C5 on the way. I could throw it in with Drive and RPM in my log over at 1fast. If you like.

Originally Posted by poison

I have a bottle of C5 on the way. I could throw it in with Drive and RPM in my log over at 1fast. If you like.

That would be awesome!!

Mmk, well first off allow me to post this:

A 50 serving container of MAN Body Octane High-Voltage sells at retail sites for $43-$48. Here is a price comparison:

175g bulk Citrulline Malate = $23.33
50g bulk Glucuronolactone = $5.00
80g bulk Beta-Alanine = $8.00
37.5g bulk L-Aspartic Acid = $1.88
50g bulk Acetyl-L-Carnitine = $4.67
12.5g bulk Histidine = $1.88
Total bulk price = $44.76

Body Octane also includes these ingredients per serving which were not included in the $44.76 bulk total:
Vitamin B6 5mg
Vitamin B12 15mcg
Pantothenic Acid 10mg
Niacin 25mg
Folic Acid 400mcg

Body Octane also includes a flavor system which was not included in the bulk total.


Notes:
- I used the bulk price of Acetyl-L-Carnitine as a substitute for L-Carnitine L-Tartrate because I could not find LCLT in bulk. I am fairly sure the prices of these two would be close if/when LCLT is available in bulk.

- bulk prices converted for comparison; 75g Citrulline Malate for $10.00; 50g Glucuronolactone for $5.00; 100g Beta-Alanine for $10.00; 100g L-Aspartic Acid for $5.00; 75g Acetyl-L-Carnitine for $7.00; 100g bulk Histidine for $15.00

- I don't think I need to say much about how good a deal Body Octane is. It should be obvious by looking at the numbers. This product is pretty much as good a deal as you are going to find as a consumer IMO. It would most likely cost you more to try and put this formula together yourself instead of buying the product.

Secondly, allow me to say hey everybody!

Thirdly, my rec. would be Body Octane taken twice daily with a poseidon/excell mixture (that I seem to be well known for these days???) with a combination of C5 and Yellow nEuphoria. I think Drive would be good, but adding in RPM would not be ideal due to the stimulant factor. This stack allotts plenty of methylcobalamin (active form of b12), beta alanine, cordyceps, nootropics, aggression, and overall, the synergy seen from this should allow for some MEAN sprints.

Originally Posted by rms80

That would be awesome!!

Will do! I've gotten my 2 miles down to 15:00 and my DL up to 325. I'd like to see 14:00 and 350 before the new year.

Most good sprinters already have a high VO2. Only training will effect that, but what really separates one sprinter from another is an athletes ability to reach top speed (acceleration) and MAINTAIN IT. The ability to maintain top speed has to do with your lactate threshhold.

Lactate threshhold is your bodies ability to flush out your lactic acid as fast as it's being produced. The higher that threshhold is the longer you can maintain your top speed. Otherwise, that particular muscle (in your case primarily your quads) will innevitebly begin to slow down. Only supplement I know of that allegedly effects lactate threshhold is Beta Alanine.

Someone else wrote that in a 100m sprinter I wouldn't be worrying about endurance supps, I completely agree. Creatine Mono for increased anaroebic power and the Beta Alanine if it really buffers the hydrogen ions in your muscles like it says it does.

Originally Posted by VolcomX311

Most good sprinters already have a high VO2. Only training will effect that, but what really separates one sprinter from another is an athletes ability to reach top speed (acceleration) and MAINTAIN IT. The ability to maintain top speed has to do with your lactate threshhold.

Lactate threshhold is your bodies ability to flush out your lactic acid as fast as it's being produced. The higher that threshhold is the longer you can maintain your top speed. Otherwise, that particular muscle (in your case primarily your quads) will innevitebly begin to slow down. Only supplement I know of that allegedly effects lactate threshhold is Beta Alanine.

Someone else wrote that in a 100m sprinter I wouldn't be worrying about endurance supps, I completely agree. Creatine Mono for increased anaroebic power and the Beta Alanine if it really buffers the hydrogen ions in your muscles like it says it does.

Genetics also greatly influence a sprinters ability. The more type IIx fibers within the thigh/glute complex, the more burst they tend to have.

Originally Posted by rms80

Agreed- I LOVE cordyceps as a supplement- and the more that I think about it- Cordygen 5 and Drive probably would not be overkill- I would be interested to see how they stacked together.....

Sorry if I came off as being harsh. I really didn't mean to. As for the label, I just looked at the online one as I haven't purchased Drive, yet.


If you're willing, I'll send you a bottle of C5 and we could get a log going? If so, hit me with a PM.

Originally Posted by Rodja

Genetics also greatly influence a sprinters ability. The more type IIx fibers within the thigh/glute complex, the more burst they tend to have.

Well yeah... what you got when your mom and dad did the dirty has more to do with how you'll turn out physcially and performance wise then any supps. Strength and Conditioning coaches always say, "you don't pick your sport, your sport picks you." Fun fact, you are born with a specific ratio of Type I's and Type II's. Type II has two categories Type IIa and Type IIb or like Rodja brought up, Type IIx (which is an interchangable term for Type IIb). Type IIx are the only fibers that actually "convert." Type IIx convert into Type IIa with training. None of the other fibers "convert", they increase in performance or hypertrophy, but not convert... and knowing is half the battle.

Whats the difference just for informational sake?
Type IIa (fast twitch), but fast oxidative glycolytic
Type IIb or IIx (fast twitch), but purely fast glycolytic

Originally Posted by ncangey0513

Sorry if I came off as being harsh. I really didn't mean to. As for the label, I just looked at the online one as I haven't purchased Drive, yet.


If you're willing, I'll send you a bottle of C5 and we could get a log going? If so, hit me with a PM.

Sure bro- no worries- I think it must be a full moon or something

You actually got me pretty interested in trying the Drive/Cordygen 5 stack

Originally Posted by VolcomX311

Most good sprinters already have a high VO2. Only training will effect that, but what really separates one sprinter from another is an athletes ability to reach top speed (acceleration) and MAINTAIN IT. The ability to maintain top speed has to do with your lactate threshhold.

Lactate threshhold is your bodies ability to flush out your lactic acid as fast as it's being produced. The higher that threshhold is the longer you can maintain your top speed. Otherwise, that particular muscle (in your case primarily your quads) will innevitebly begin to slow down. Only supplement I know of that allegedly effects lactate threshhold is Beta Alanine.

Someone else wrote that in a 100m sprinter I wouldn't be worrying about endurance supps, I completely agree. Creatine Mono for increased anaroebic power and the Beta Alanine if it really buffers the hydrogen ions in your muscles like it says it does.

Great post- and very true. Sprinting is divided up into phases:
1. Drive
2. Transition
3. Maintainence

Drive phase is comprised of coming out of the blocks and acceleration- it usually occurs over the first 35-45m, but the best guys in the world can effectively drive out to almost 60. Think of it as trying to get the most distance (power) on each step by creating proper shin angle (almost horizontal to the ground over the first few steps) and body position (chest up and hips pushing out). At the beginning of the Drive phase (the first 15 steps), you want to focus more on distance covered rather than rapid turnover. It sounds counterintuitive, but it all comes down to the ability to NOT have to use your top speed mechanics too early. Like Volcom said, it all comes down to the ability to keep top speed/turnover.

Transition phase is the transition between drive mechanics and top speed mechanics- your hips gradually rise as well as the shin angle- this usually occurs over a 15-20m area- the transition phase must be very smooth, in that the sprinter does not want to attain top speed too early.

Maintainence is all top speed mechanics- your body position is almost straight up and down, with about a 5 degree whole body lean forward (very slight), and the shin angle is near vertical. once you reach top speed, it is like trying to pedal a bike down a hill- you have to continuously exert effort to keep the same top speed. If you get into top speed mechanics too early- and you have to hold top speed over 80-90m- you are not going to win, no matter how good your top speed is- you simply can't hold the turnover

The guys who have the best nervous systems and lactate thresholds can keep this the longest- and even the best guys can only hold this for a few 100 meters. this is why I run the 60 and 100- my lactate threshold is not that great, I am simply not genetically gifted in this area, and I really have to work hard for what I have. What I am genetically gifted in is hip and core strength, plus I have pretty quick reactions- it basically comes down to finding what you are good at, and gifted at, and training for it

If I was already taking creatine and Body Octane. And i usually like to use some product for the caffeine / energy / fat burning boost pre sprints / sports. What do you recommend then? No competition - Drive and RPM for sure?

Actually i am thinking maybe RPM and drive might be doubling up abit for me because of some of my other supplements.
Here is my semi complete list of the supps i take :-

Animal Pak / Orange Triad
Protein Powder
Creatine
diesel Test Hardcore / Activate Xtreme
Glucosamine
BCAAs
Body Octane
Fish Oil
Superfoods (Greens)
Digestive Enzymes
Dextrose

bump

Bumpo

got a race in 3 weeks 100 meters

which do i go with EPIDROL or H-DROL or Drive & RPM Stack

can i do Creatine is so which one ...been using Krealkalyn just finished

also should i add a liver and Joint Support