Cissus with XFACTOR

[Bull6125]

Since Cissus has anti-inflammatory properties, will it diminish the effects of XFACTOR? I am stacking Incarnate with XFACTOR. Has anyone tried this (or something similar)?

 

[RisingAgainst]

Since Cissus has anti-inflammatory properties, will it diminish the effects of XFACTOR? I am stacking Incarnate with XFACTOR. Has anyone tried this (or something similar)?

There are certain interactions involved that lead me to believe cissus and x factor is NOT a good idea. There's been several good debates on this throughout the industry as well if you look hard enough

 

[strategicmove]

There are certain interactions involved that lead me to believe cissus and x factor is NOT a good idea. There's been several good debates on this throughout the industry as well if you look hard enough

Agree.

 

[metroba]

Im not sure but I think JJ stacked them like 6 months ago.

 

[RisingAgainst]

Im not sure but I think JJ stacked them like 6 months ago.

Just because someone stacked em don't mean a damn thing bro. (no offense, just giving you the real deal, less broscience)

 

[metroba]

Just because someone stacked em don't mean a damn thing bro. (no offense, just giving you the real deal, less broscience)

haha interesting approach to a response. My point was that he could look back at his log to see if he experienced problems.

 

[RisingAgainst]

Ok... I *think* it was the PGF-2 conversions that were counterproductive... COULD be PGE-2, and/or a receptor site on top of that?... sigh.. I can't find my old info on it.
No matter how you turn this, one negates the other, or at least diminishes effects to a high degree....
Think of it is as the cissus being a Cox-II inbihibitor and the increased PGE2 activity decreases the effectiveness of cissus drastically via collengenase activity...

 

[ImJ2x]

Stop calling your daddy little boy. Listen... the point isnt whether or not you benefit or not, the point is that you shouldn't bother, there's EASIER options to reduce pain than cissus, cissus in all it's rights is more than likely estrogenic to so dude, seriously learn how to study and stop relying on the big boys to handle your work, you jumped into this, now GTFO or handle your business. /rant over.

ok -- i'll go away
:sad:

 

[ImJ2x]

maybe not...

 

[RisingAgainst]

ok -- i'll go away
:sad:

I wasn't trying to offend you man, just stating my mind. If you have no scientific backing of your own, I don't feel there should be further banter brought forth is all.

 

[ImJ2x]

Stop calling your daddy little boy. Listen... the point isnt whether or not you benefit or not, the point is that you shouldn't bother, there's EASIER options to reduce pain than cissus, cissus in all it's rights is more than likely estrogenic to so dude, seriously learn how to study and stop relying on the big boys to handle your work, you jumped into this, now GTFO or handle your business. /rant over.

The real point has suddenly changed completely. The question now is, how does someone as rude and ignorant as you get all those little crowns? It goes to show how silly the rep system is.

 

[RisingAgainst]

The real point has suddenly changed completely. The question now is, how does someone as rude and ignorant as you get all those little crowns? It goes to show how silly the rep system is.

The REAL point is you missed my above post and you lack intelligence. End of story.

 

[jjohn]

Okay this has been addressed over and over again. I had ran the stack, and there does not seem to be any significant interactions with moderate dosed Cissus. IMO, the benefits are well worth it if you can't stand the joint pain.

 

[ImJ2x]

I wasn't trying to offend you man, just stating my mind. If you have no scientific backing of your own, I don't feel there should be further banter brought forth is all.

And where's your "scientific backing?" Cissus is estrogenic? Show me...

 

[RisingAgainst]

And where's your "scientific backing?" Cissus is estrogenic? Show me...

Trust me, there's some coming, it wasn't until a few weeks ago these studies were started, stop being a crybaby and go back to your dad's arms.

 

[ImJ2x]

Trust me, there's some coming, it wasn't until a few weeks ago these studies were started, stop being a crybaby and go back to your dad's arms.

Dude -- were you raised by monkeys or something? You're rudeness is almost comical. Keep "speaking your mind" so I can continue to chuckle.

 

[UNCfan1]

And where's your "scientific backing?" Cissus is estrogenic? Show me...

U have to excuse RA. He is brash and blunt. He knows quite a bit, still trying to figure out how in the hell he is learnig so much so fast.

There are some studies taking place with both products. X-factor by some is believed to be somewhat progestinic and Cissus to be somewhat estrogenic. Forgive my spelling, spell check doesn't work.

So thats where he was going with this I believe. BTW I am not one who believes this just yet until I see the studies that are being conducted. I believe Dinoiii is the one doing them correct RA?

 

[strategicmove]

Ok... I *think* it was the PGF-2 conversions that were counterproductive... COULD be PGE-2, and/or a receptor site on top of that?... sigh.. I can't find my old info on it.
No matter how you turn this, one negates the other, or at least diminishes effects to a high degree....
Think of it is as the cissus being a Cox-II inbihibitor and the increased PGE2 activity decreases the effectiveness of cissus drastically via collengenase activity...

After the consumption of AA, specific enzymes (proteins that speed up chemical reactions in the body) ensure the conversion of arachidonic acid an abnormal platelet-aggregation compound (Thromboxane A2), as well as into two pro-inflammatory agents, COX-2 (Prostaglandin E2) and 5-Lipoxygenase (Leukotriene B4). Both Prostaglandin E2 and Leukotriene B4 produce inflammation and joint destruction. So, Cissus, apart from being a glucocorticoid antagonist, would reduce (partly neutralize) the inflammatory impact of Arachidonic Acid and help soothe the joint destruction that Arachidonic Acid unleashes. So, in a sense, Cissus counteracts Arachidonic Acid. In another sense, it may help clean the damage Arachidonic Acid leaves behind.

 

[ImJ2x]

U have to excuse RA. He is brash and blunt. He knows quite a bit, still trying to figure out how in the hell he is learnig so much so fast.

There are some studies taking place with both products. X-factor by some is believed to be somewhat progestinic and Cissus to be somewhat estrogenic. Forgive my spelling, spell check doesn't work.

So thats where he was going with this I believe. BTW I am not one who believes this just yet until I see the studies that are being conducted. I believe Dinoiii is the one doing them correct RA?

Fair enough -- I'm always willing to sift through his BS to find any helpful info. But an old guy like me knows that, if you try hard enough, you can find some "research" somewhere to support any position.
That's why I always put more faith in real-world results. Is there one single guy anywhere that has gotten gyno from cissus? I love cissus (when you reach my age, you will too). And I've never had a hint of gyno from the stuff.
And if it doesn't interefere too much with the effectiveness of x-factor, then it's a viable stack. Simple as that.

 

[jjohn]

After the consumption of AA, specific enzymes (proteins that speed up chemical reactions in the body) ensure the conversion of arachidonic acid an abnormal platelet-aggregation compound (Thromboxane A2), as well as into two pro-inflammatory agents, COX-2 (Prostaglandin E2) and 5-Lipoxygenase (Leukotriene B4). Both Prostaglandin E2 and Leukotriene B4 produce inflammation and joint destruction. So, Cissus, apart from being a glucocorticoid antagonist, would reduce (partly neutralize) the inflammatory impact of Arachidonic Acid and help soothe the joint destruction that Arachidonic Acid unleashes. So, in a sense, Cissus counteracts Arachidonic Acid. In another sense, it may help clean the damage Arachidonic Acid leaves behind.

We have to be carefull with the "damage" AA leaves behind. The reason of inflamation in the joints is the same as in the muscles. Meaning it's trained, and the inflammatory response causes healing. If you take lighter weights on X Factor, and focus on the mind body connection. You will have virtually no joint pain.

 

[RisingAgainst]

We have to be carefull with the "damage" AA leaves behind. The reason of inflamation in the joints is the same as in the muscles. Meaning it's trained, and the inflammatory response causes healing. If you take lighter weights on X Factor, and focus on the mind body connection. You will have virtually no joint pain.

I said this a year ago and got flamed... some people's kids.

I agree mostly though Strategic, I did have a slight mixup.

Oh and yes I have 2 people in mind who got gyno from excessive cissus usage.

 

[UNCfan1]

Fair enough -- I'm always willing to sift through his BS to find any helpful info. But an old guy like me knows that, if you try hard enough, you can find some "research" somewhere to support any position.
That's why I always put more faith in real-world results. Is there one single guy anywhere that has gotten gyno from cissus? I love cissus (when you reach my age, you will too). And I've never had a hint of gyno from the stuff.
And if it doesn't interefere too much with the effectiveness of x-factor, then it's a viable stack. Simple as that.

Personally to me it sounds and looks like a great stack. I would run it. I like this idea cause I got some insane DOMS with X-factor. I did however really like the product.

Has anyone gotten gyno from cissus not that I have seen, now there was a guy name Voodoo I believe had puffy nipps while running cissus. I don't remember what else he was running or what he ran before. If he sees this he could chime in.

 

[UNCfan1]

I said this a year ago and got flamed... some people's kids.

I agree mostly though Strategic, I did have a slight mixup.

Oh and yes I have 2 people in mind who got gyno from excessive cissus usage.

Was it Voodoo and who else?

 

[RisingAgainst]

Was it Voodoo and who else?

My buddy who I kinda forced into running cissus solo for a month at a fairly high dose.. LOL

 

[ImJ2x]

PS: I repped RA just for the hell of it -- maybe he'll be nice to me now, lol.

 

[RisingAgainst]

PS: I repped RA just for the hell of it -- maybe he'll be nice to me now, lol.

reps mean absolutely NOTHING on a forum board.

 

[ImJ2x]

reps mean absolutely NOTHING on a forum board.

Finally, we can agree on something.

 

[jjohn]

Finally, we can agree on something.

Reps jk

 

[celc5]

That's why I always put more faith in real-world results

I've heard of 1 real world result of x-factor aggravating what may have been pre-existing gyno.

I've SPECIFICALLY questioned a reliable source on another board about cissus's potential for estrogenic properties and he agreed that there is potential.

(I purposely left out sources as I'm relaying second hand info).

I've read a post by a reputable source on this board mentioning the estrogenic postential of cissus when it was first released (I believe it was in the ATD inverse to SERM thread).

Also, JJohn is 19 so I'll assume he hasn't ran any cycles yet which would make him NOT susceptable to gyno. Therefore, I doubt he'd have any gyno to aggravate.

Finally, although RA is not very eloquent at times, he's simply presenting a warning that the Cissus/X-factor stack provides a dual potential for negative effectts. In which case, he's helping out and that's why has those fruity lil crowns :lol:

 

[ImJ2x]

I guess we'll just have to wait for some brave souls to try the stack, and start to get some real feedback. (I actually have both products, so maybe I'll be one of the guinea pigs.)

 

[EasyEJL]

i'll be using 3-4g/day of cissus with xfactor

 

[ImJ2x]

i'll be using 3-4g/day of cissus with xfactor

And if you get gyno, I'll eat my liver.

 

[EasyEJL]

i've only lightly pulsed superdrol as far as hormonals go, so I have nothing pre-existing. I wouldn't find it impossible to believe the combo aggravating existing, even that is somewhat unlikely.

I still wonder at the no fish oil thing really, this whole conversation brings it up, at least the science parts. fish oil binds to cox1 sites, not cox2, so I would think they wouldn't interfere as much with AA's thang. depending on how much I enjoy this cycle, I may (after a break inbetween) do an xfactor cycle while doing 45g a day fish oil to see how it affects results

 

[UNCfan1]

i'll be using 3-4g/day of cissus with xfactor

Keep me updated on ur libido with 3-4g of cissus. I know someone that had a decline with 1500mg.

 

[RisingAgainst]

Keep me updated on ur libido with 3-4g of cissus. I know someone that had a decline with 1500mg.

I use to love cissus... until I started doing my own research and learning how to think for myself

 

[UNCfan1]

I use to love cissus... until I started doing my own research and learning how to think for myself

What do u consider ur own research? If u are reading what other people(dr, sciencist) then its not really ur own research now is it.:duel:

 

[RisingAgainst]

What do u consider ur own research? If u are reading what other people(dr, sciencist) then its not really ur own research now is it.:duel:

What it sounds like Mike, MY OWN research.

 

[ImJ2x]

I use to love cissus... until I started doing my own research and learning how to think for myself

That's the part I don't understand. If you used cissus (and loved it), and never had any gyno issues from it (or lost libido, etc), why did you decide to start hating it? I accept that you know someone who maybe got itchy nips from mega-dosed cissus. But if it works for you, that's all that really matters, no?

 

[RisingAgainst]

That's the part I don't understand. If you used cissus (and loved it), and never had any gyno issues from it (or lost libido, etc), why did you decide to start hating it? I accept that you know someone who maybe got itchy nips from mega-dosed cissus. But if it works for you, that's all that really matters, no?

You misconstrued my sentiments...

I use to "love" cissus = I use to like the ideas behind cissus

Nobody got "itchy" nips as that's a crock in itself... people on these forums get gyno from just reading the word... so thats inpertinent.

I didn't "DECIDE" to start hating anything, I made goals to research it and understand it better, and upon completion I decided I didn't want to employ it's usage. I didn't all of a sudden wake up and say "I HATE CISSUS!" ...

 

[ImJ2x]

i've only lightly pulsed superdrol as far as hormonals go, so I have nothing pre-existing. I wouldn't find it impossible to believe the combo aggravating existing, even that is somewhat unlikely.

I still wonder at the no fish oil thing really, this whole conversation brings it up, at least the science parts. fish oil binds to cox1 sites, not cox2, so I would think they wouldn't interfere as much with AA's thang. depending on how much I enjoy this cycle, I may (after a break inbetween) do an xfactor cycle while doing 45g a day fish oil to see how it affects results

45g?! jeez -- how many whales have to die to feed your addiction, lol?

 

[UNCfan1]

What it sounds like Mike, MY OWN research.

Explain. Are u giving urself or friends products to use and watching the effcts on their body with bloodwork? Just trying to understand what u meant by ur own research.:cheers:

 

[RisingAgainst]

Explain. Are u giving urself or friends products to use and watching the effcts on their body with bloodwork? Just trying to understand what u meant by ur own research.:cheers:

I'll shoot you a PM

 

[UNCfan1]

I'll shoot you a PM

Cool beans.

 

[ImJ2x]

You misconstrued my sentiments...

I use to "love" cissus = I use to like the ideas behind cissus

Nobody got "itchy" nips as that's a crock in itself... people on these forums get gyno from just reading the word... so thats inpertinent.

I didn't "DECIDE" to start hating anything, I made goals to research it and understand it better, and upon completion I decided I didn't want to employ it's usage. I didn't all of a sudden wake up and say "I HATE CISSUS!" ...

Oh -- I guess I did misunderstand you. I thought you meant that you had used cissus and loved it. My bad.

 

[nycste]

i plan on running 3g cissus with my upcoming xfactor poseidon log on monday... now idk.. if ill keep using cissus or not

 

[EasyEJL]

I'll say that the 3-4g of cissus is of CNW's raw, which is only a 5% extract. thats something to always keep in mind with these. 3g of 5% is quite different than 3g of 20%...

 

[jjohn]

i plan on running 3g cissus with my upcoming xfactor poseidon log on monday... now idk.. if ill keep using cissus or not

I would stop it, and start once XF kicked in. You'll know right away if it affects it's effects.

 

[nycste]

I would stop it, and start once XF kicked in. You'll know right away if it affects it's effects.

soo stop taking it

then start it again once i feel xfactor kick in at some point.. which should be fast ur saying right

 

[EasyEJL]

something like 2 1/2 to 3 weeks in nycste. I'm redeciding what workout routine to use for the log

 

[nycste]

something like 2 1/2 to 3 weeks in nycste. I'm redeciding what workout routine to use for the log

someone was telling my DC shouldnt be used for like long periods of time and there are easy weeks and stuff

i gotta look into that i think im almost done wtih cycle week 4 of DC training whcih consists of 6 day cycles each being 2 weeks

im tempted to go back to 2 muscles a day or 1