no2 black

shaunnner

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has anyone ever tried no2 black by mri. how do u like it? they wont send me it because i live in canada. its not even a steriod. im mad. damm customs.
 
Cellardude

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here's the scoop. lots of people have been talking about no2 black and it's not because its a good product. From what ive heard its like 100 dollars or so. Just because it has a fancy box and is really expensive does NOT make it a godly preworkout supplement. back when i looked at the ingredience list no2 black seemed like nothing more than AAKG with some other stuff in it. Not worth 100+ dollars my friend and those super amazing pumps or w/e they claim is bull. get bulk AAKG from nutraplanet. 100g = 7 bucks. thats a deal. dont be tricked by fake marketing and a fancy box. expensive doesnt always mean great. it means their good at their jobs which is to trick the uninformed consumer. I would recommend either White Flood + citrulline malate (200g) which will cost you about 50 bucks and last for 3+ months. Those are some intense pumps for half the price. or bulk citruliine malate + beta alinine + AAKG up to you. save your money. dont buy junk.
 
shaunnner

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im mixing them both thats alot. im 195 pounds. how many scoops of each product would i take. also when. before and after workouts?
 
Cellardude

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well ive never tried, AAKG but thats the main ingredience in no2 black from what I see. I have tried citrulline malate and beta allinine. I usually do 3-4 grams of citrulline malate pre workout. my dosage of beta alinine intake is 1.7G per day according to the dosage of White Flood. My BA consumption comes from White Flood which claims 1.7g of BA per 2 scoops. Im roughly your body weight so I would say that would work for you. Not sure bout AAKG but 3 grams of CM and maybe 2g of BA 20 minutes preworkout should do. I would suggest you tamper your dosages considering everyone reacts differently. I get some pretty intense workouts on 3g of CM and 2g or so of BA. experiment a little. not all bodys react the same way you know.
 

ReaperX

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Lol, I just checked out their website. They claim 950% increase in NOS.

Dangggggggggggggggggggggggggg..........
 
dhuge67

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yes they do ive used them and i get results
Oh, results? Like a pump? That's not a result that means anything as far as muscle mass or strength gains. You get results from lifting, and progressive overload, not from a pump-pill.

Stop pursuing pain and start pursuing strength and then you'll be able to cut your supplement budget in half and get closer to your goals.
 
Cellardude

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Oh, results? Like a pump? That's not a result that means anything as far as muscle mass or strength gains. You get results from lifting, and progressive overload, not from a pump-pill.

Stop pursuing pain and start pursuing strength and then you'll be able to cut your supplement budget in half and get closer to your goals.
good point. but some pre-workout supps help with strength endurance. (not no2 black). Ultimately it would lead to some kind of gain. Not direct gains from pre-workout supps but they do help.
 
dhuge67

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good point. but some pre-workout supps help with strength endurance. (not no2 black). Ultimately it would lead to some kind of gain. Not direct gains from pre-workout supps but they do help.
I believe in pre-workout stimulants like RPM in terms of "waking you up" to perform your best, but I don't believe that there are any studies that show that NO directly causes any kind of strength or muscle mass increases. The only thing it might do is cause a placebo effect, or make you feel the pump better, which could cause a training effect -- but not a direct one.

Basically, it's not worth the money for NO supplements.
 
Cellardude

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I believe in pre-workout stimulants like RPM in terms of "waking you up" to perform your best, but I don't believe that there are any studies that show that NO directly causes any kind of strength or muscle mass increases. The only thing it might do is cause a placebo effect, or make you feel the pump better, which could cause a training effect -- but not a direct one.

Basically, it's not worth the money for NO supplements.
I agree! That's why I never buy my NO supps ;). I either win them or log them :toofunny:. For me, I found NO products useful not directly in causing strength or muscle mass gain but indirectly. before I used to train in the morning. Once summer was over, I had to train in the morning because classes for me start at 12:30 and I need to head out of my house at 11:30. Anyway, When you switch from a evening workout to a Morning workout it can be cruel. My energy was affected dramatically. Pre-workouts helped give that boost for the early morning. Im the worst morning person ever. I stay up till 1,2 am sometimes and wake up at 10 in the morning. So you see, I had to get up extra early to get to the gym. direct muscles growth, no indirectly yes. Without the pre-workouts supps i doubt I would have had the energy to lift and grow in a proper environment.
 

Necroticism

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some friends of mine waste there money on NO supplements, i agree its a waste, id much rather just spend 8$ or so and get some free form arginine.
 

ReaperX

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Yeah dudeeeee, screw NO supplements, I'd rather buy something 100% times more effective like Creatine Ethyl Ester....hahaha
 
thahotboy

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CEE is not that good .... I prefer Creatine Monohydrate for a bulk :D !
 
ohiostate2827

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i think endorush is a great pre-workout supp. thats all i need
 
shaunnner

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actually i weighed 135 pounds 4 years ago. i gained 35 pounds of rock hard muscle by taking no2 and of coarse high amount of calories but no2 in cojunction with my meals and work out i gain good strength and weight and very veiny pumps.
 

ReaperX

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i gained the 35 pounds in 2 years
Ok, is this just an observation on the scale or did you actually use lots of equipment to account for all the variables that indicate how much you gained ? bodyfat,water,fasting, etc.....


Not trying to be a d-ck or anything, but it is a pet peeve when people say they 'gained # of pounds' when this gain is merely looking at the scale and making a rough mental note of what they weigh. Even with steroids, there are a bunch of people who just look at the scale and say I gained...blah.




What is more appropriate to say is:


'I believe I gained approx. 35 pounds in 2 years, however this number is subjective to many inconsistancies that I may not know about and was concluded in a non-scientific manner'


I also noticed you posted something about 'DBol for a first timer'.........so I am assuming you are natural. Naturally putting on 35lbs in 2 years is even more absurd.


Sorry there's just a lot of things that piss me off and ignorance is one of them.
 
shaunnner

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you are pretty smart. it isnt a scientific number. im not ignorant but it pissis me off when someone says a supplement is ****ty when they havn t even tried it.
 

ReaperX

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you are pretty smart. it isnt a scientific number. im not ignorant but it pissis me off when someone says a supplement is ****ty when they havn t even tried it.
I will correct myself:


I have not tried the supplement NO2 Black, but based on what I have seen on the ingredient list, this has lead me to the strong possibility that the product is not effective.


I believe that is more appropriate.
 
Australian made

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I also noticed you posted something about 'DBol for a first timer'.........so I am assuming you are natural. Naturally putting on 35lbs in 2 years is even more absurd.


Sorry there's just a lot of things that piss me off and ignorance is one of them.
Well i think 35lbs in two years is quite attainable especially if your a beginner. I know i certainly put on more then that when i started to through in creatine mono and HMB into the mix when i was about 16-17. Either way i don't think NO2 products aren't that much chop. Other supps i'd rather spend my money on.
 

ReaperX

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Well i think 35lbs in two years is quite attainable especially if your a beginner. I know i certainly put on more then that when i started to through in creatine mono and HMB into the mix when i was about 16-17. Either way i don't think NO2 products aren't that much chop. Other supps i'd rather spend my money on.



35 lbs can be gained in 2 years no doubt about that. I went from 158 to 187lbs in 2 years which is a 29 lbs gain. Of course this was fat included as well. The actual gain of just weight in general is attainable.


Shauuner said he gains 35lbs of solid lean muscle which I interpreted as ZIP, ZILCH, NADDA fat.

For example:

10% BF - 180lbs

2 yrs later

10% BF- 215lbs

No fat gain ? It dosen't happen. Sorry. If anyone would like to correct me and tell me that 35lbs of solid muscle with ZERO fat gain has happened to anyone I'd like to know.

If there was a fat gain on top of the 35lbs of solid muscle then that number '35lbs' is extremely subjective.
 

ReaperX

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I just find it very,very,very,very hard to believe. If it were to occur it would have to happen with the presence of mega amount of steriods.
 
shaunnner

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lol ok i meant some fat and water...sorry i was in a bad mood and lean muscle slipped out lol
 

ReaperX

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lol ok i meant some fat and water...sorry i was in a bad mood and lean muscle slipped out lol




Anyways for Pre-workout, the product I've found to be effective is ARLI's WTF Pump'd.

The lemonade taste kinda reminds me of puke+lemonade mixed together, and after you are done drinking it, there is basically sand left all around the shaker cup, but it has just enough stim and works very well as a pre-workout IMO.



SuperPump 250- Too much stim, made me sick to my stomach and go diarrhea like 15 times

N.O.-XPLODE- Made me dizzy from stim

TRAC-NO XTREME- The orange flavor tastes kinda nasty. It was OK at first, but isn't really doing much anymore

WTF Pump'd- Excellent pre-workout. Gross flavor+sand particles
 
shaunnner

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i will have to give it a try. but i dont know what to choose. there are so many like white flood etc.
 

ReaperX

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I've noticed a lot of companies overkill the stim aspect of it.


Endorush by BSN's @ 1/4-1/2 bottle is good

WTF Pump'd by ALRI is also good 40 min to workout.

I've been trying different preworkout stuff and reporting back on how they work.


I'm not trying to stirr the pot or anything, but I'll never buy stuff from Controlled Labs again.
 
shaunnner

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really,, thanks for givin me heads up because i was just told to buy it because its cheap and works awsom.
 
xjsynx

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Oh, results? Like a pump? That's not a result that means anything as far as muscle mass or strength gains. You get results from lifting, and progressive overload, not from a pump-pill.

Stop pursuing pain and start pursuing strength and then you'll be able to cut your supplement budget in half and get closer to your goals.
:clap2:

I also read an article about NO production. I just know the body has it in check, because too much NO = bad results. I will try to look it up.
 
xjsynx

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good point. but some pre-workout supps help with strength endurance. (not no2 black). Ultimately it would lead to some kind of gain. Not direct gains from pre-workout supps but they do help.
Cell, we aren't talking about pre-wo supps. We are talking about the NO hype.
 
Australian made

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I hope you are kidding.
i think Reaper is just being Reaper. he can be rather opinionated but puts up a good argument nonetheless.

CEE and mono both worked for me either way.
 

ReaperX

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I only use monohydrate. Even using ALRI's WTF Pump'd it has CEE which I disregard and mix monohydrate with. Whenever I use pre-workout supps I always add my own monohydrate just because.


I suffer bad from monohydrate which leads me to only use it for periods of about 4 weeks at a time. I consistantly gain 3-4lbs in water weight and it makes me sick to my stomach sometimes as well.
 

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If you are naturally skinny, untrained, and not eating optimally, and started working out for the first time on a good program and ate like a horse you could gain 35 lbs of almost all muscle in 2 years.

Think about it, that's only 1.5lbs/month, just a little more than most natural trainers could typically gain without "assistance" and without putting on too much fat. If you're genetically inclined to be skinny you'll have to work and eat really hard to do it, but you COULD do it and not look any fatter in the mirror, which is what really counts.
 
Socrates44

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Shaunner different things work for different people, stick to what you like. The NO might not add muscle physically but the peripheral effects it gives you, like your pump, showing veins might get psyched to have a really good workout. If you do choose to use NO use it with bulk aminos and possibly a dextrose medium.

One thing you can't forget is to take an Anti-Oxidant with NO because it is a free radical. I noticed you mentioned white flood, I think controlled labs are pretty good with putting AOX with their Nitric Oxide. Make sure to avoid products that contain L-Norvaline like vyo-techs nitrobolic.
 

ReaperX

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Right now I'm just doing a bare basics for my nitric oxide.


3.5g of citrulline malate upon waking up

3.5g of cirtulline malate again 40 min prior to workout.

=7g citrulline/ED


I just mix this with kool-aid. It does not have the bells/whistles to it, but I'm taking a break from being penis pounded in the ass from supplement companies selling their shotgun NO supplements. Their crap is either a hit or miss.....and mainly a miss up until now.


AAKG would be cheaper, but I am starting to hate AAKG, it is making me nauseated when I use high amounts. I'm probably going to stop buying it in bulk after I finish what I have and just use citrulline malate only.
 
drksun

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here's the scoop. lots of people have been talking about no2 black and it's not because its a good product. From what ive heard its like 100 dollars or so. Just because it has a fancy box and is really expensive does NOT make it a godly preworkout supplement. back when i looked at the ingredience list no2 black seemed like nothing more than AAKG with some other stuff in it. Not worth 100+ dollars my friend and those super amazing pumps or w/e they claim is bull. get bulk AAKG from nutraplanet. 100g = 7 bucks. thats a deal. dont be tricked by fake marketing and a fancy box. expensive doesnt always mean great. it means their good at their jobs which is to trick the uninformed consumer. I would recommend either White Flood + citrulline malate (200g) which will cost you about 50 bucks and last for 3+ months. Those are some intense pumps for half the price. or bulk citruliine malate + beta alinine + AAKG up to you. save your money. dont buy junk.
:goodpost:

its ture, the whole mri line is way overpriced
 

ReaperX

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I need to try using Beta-Alanine longer. I've used it before, but I have not used it long enough to the point where I am benefiting from it since it needs to be used consistantly. I also use about 1.5g of beta-alaine which I think is probably not enough either.
 
shaunnner

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too much no2 is bad. you can over dose not death but loose muscle if you take to much. i read about it.
 

ReaperX

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Taking citrulline or aakg allows maximum production and regulation of the body's natural no production. I believe that the body has a finite capacity and after awhile it stops itself. With the free radicals, from what I understand this occurs only when the body is in a state of inflammation......

This is what Patrick Arnold told me when I asked him about this.
 
xjsynx

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I need to try using Beta-Alanine longer. I've used it before, but I have not used it long enough to the point where I am benefiting from it since it needs to be used consistantly. I also use about 1.5g of beta-alaine which I think is probably not enough either.

I know there is a dosage according to bodyweight; however, a lot of studies used 6g of BA.

Also, you won't benefit much from BA use unless the reps are high.
 
xjsynx

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Taking citrulline or aakg allows maximum production and regulation of the body's natural no production. I believe that the body has a finite capacity and after awhile it stops itself. With the free radicals, from what I understand this occurs only when the body is in a state of inflammation......

This is what Patrick Arnold told me when I asked him about this.
...

I'm not a fan of arginine supplements for blood flow, but the idea that Citrulline Malate (CM) is a nitric oxide (NO) stimulator is just perverse. There is absolutely no reason to think that CM could increase NO levels in the arteries of our muscle, but every reason to think that it could reduce it. That's right, CM could have the exact OPPOSITE effect to what you're trying to achieve!

NO and Citrulline Malate

The original thinking comes from the fact that CM is biochemically produced along with NO from the conversion of arginine. In other words, our body breaks down arginine to give us both NO and CM. One 40-year-old study shows that CM may actually reverse direction and get converted back to arginine, the rationale being that more arginine =more NO.

Arginine => NO + CM

But, aside from being bass ackwards, here are a few ways in which the theory could break down:

1) Nitric Oxide is produced from arginine along with CM, so if the reaction is reversed, shouldn't NO be consumed in the process? In other words, if you're going to make arginine out of CM, you could need both products of the original biochemical reaction to do it -meaning that you'd actually use up NO.

CM + NO => Arginine

If this is true, it would mean you're using up NO so you might hopefully (fingers crossed), eventually, get some NO. This is like trying to make money by lending it out to your friends. You're not sure if you'll get it all back, and even if you do, you're only back where you started (there is no such thing as accrued interest in biochemistry) .

Although the above theory seems sound, the reality is that CM is actually converted to arginine with aspartic acid, not NO. This means that NO would not in fact be used up in the reaction. So far so good for CM.

2) CM might negatively affect natural NO production because of another basic element of chemistry known as the Law of Mass Action (LMA). Without geeking out, LMA states that as the end products of a chemical reaction build up, in our example NO and CM, it becomes harder for the reaction to occur.

This is analogous to stuffing your mouth with marshmallows — the more you stuff, the harder it becomes. So if we're "stuffing" our body with CM, we're potentially making it harder for it and the co-product, NO, to be produced.

3) It's been repeatedly shown that blood arginine levels have little to do with actual NO production — an observation known as the arginine paradox, which was discussed in a previous Barrticle. So even if CM can convert back to arginine, NO won't be positively affected.


Reality Injection

It's fun to play with theories but we need to get real. The above discussion is an analysis of the current flaws inherent in the CM ad-copy. I know that you're probably shocked that scientific interpretation has been manipulated to sell product, but it happens from time to time.

[Editor's note: while CM may not have any effect on NO production, the product seems to have some affect on increasing anaerobic threshold.]

Realistically though, nitric oxide is a powerful free radical that can be damaging to our cells, but more importantly it regulates our blood flow. As a result, our body tightly regulates NO production to ensure that we don't die.

If NO were subject to simple dietary manipulation, we'd have passed out from hypotension after the first high-protein meal we ever ate. Tying this into the original question, CM does not have any positive impact on NO production.

Key Point: Don't forget the "nitric oxide" supplements currently on the market are really just arginine supplements, little different than those that were popular in the 1980's.
 
xjsynx

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The Biggest Scam in Supplement History

Consumer Alert: The NO2/Arginine Scam
by David Barr​

Take a look at the history of nutritional supplements and you'll find many scams and cons. It's easy to spot these swindles in hindsight; it's a little tougher to identify them during their market peaks. Well, there's a scam going on right now, a big one. In fact, it's growing even bigger as I write this. Are you falling for it? Are you being suckered by bad science and questionable marketing tactics?

Let's cut to the chase: the biggest scam on the market right now is arginine blood flow stimulators. You may know these by the terms "nitric-oxide stimulators" or "NO2 supplements."

Wait, you already knew these supplements were worthless? And you think you already know what the scam is? Doubtfully. Because I'm about to reveal the real con behind these supplements. In this Consumer Alert, I’ll not only blow the lid off of the whole scam, but I’ll also reveal to you a better hemodilator that's been proven for years to increase blood flow, aid in recovery, and stimulate muscle protein synthesis.

This article covers the science showing why arginine products don’t stand up to their claims, but the rabbit hole goes much deeper than that. Hang on Alice, you’re in for a wild ride.

Why Arginine? Why Now?

Why are so many supplement companies focusing on arginine? Well, now that prohormones are banned, companies are scrambling to throw out the next big supplement to keep them in business. If nothing truly groundbreaking is within their grasp, they'll come out with a worthless supplement supported by dubious science. Want to know what's really pathetic? If this garbage supplement makes some money, other companies will rip off the bad idea and market their own versions, regardless of whether or not the supplement works!

Are the copycats and knockoffs, with their additional bells and whistles, better? No. In fact, some sleazy manufacturers are even including potentially harmful substances like glycocyamine in their products!

This copycat movement was really noticeable at the recent Olympia Expo, where only variations on two products seemed to exist: creatine and nitric oxide stimulators. While readers may be aware of the inherent risks of creatine wannabes from our Consumer Report on Dangerous Creatine, recent evidence demonstrates how nitric oxide stimulators can be considered the greatest con since ENRON. Let's dig into the evidence.

Hemodilators: Theory and Practice
The hemodilator (or blood vessel dilator) products saturating the market are purported to stimulate blood flow and subsequently enhance nutrient delivery to muscles, resulting in increased size and strength. As you may know, these products contain little more than the amino acid arginine, something that's been on the supplement market for years and years. Basically, arginine supplementation is claimed to stimulate the synthesis of the hemodilator nitric oxide (NO) in our blood vessels.

The existing theory looks like this:
Arginine -> Nitric Oxide -> Vasodilation -> Nutrient Delivery -> Muscle Growth and Strength

Now there’s nothing inherently wrong with arginine. In fact, it’s an important amino acid. It’s just not the amino acid to really help your gains — more on that later.

New research has been revealed since the first T-Nation article on these types of supplements was published. Now we can focus on that which is directly applicable to us: studies on healthy adults.


Sick Over Arginine

The whole hemodilator theory is relatively simple. Arginine is the precursor for NO synthesis and it's been shown that high dose arginine infusion directly into the bloodstream can lead to vasodilation in healthy fasted humans (17). Unfortunately, high doses can lead to decreases in total body water and sodium (4). And even a dose as low as 10 grams has been associated with gastric upset when consumed orally (26,14).

Researchers involved in a third study demonstrating oral arginine-induced GI distress actually had to reduce the quantity originally given so the trials could be completed effectively (29). Despite the reduction to seven grams an hour for three hours (for a 200 pound man), the researchers reported: "All of our subjects reported mild intestinal cramping and diarrhea that lasted for approximately five hours."

But wait, it gets worse! This arginine dose still had no significant effect on glycogen storage following exercise (29)! Because oral arginine only has 70% bioavailability, and up to 50% of this can be broken down to ornithine, taking arginine tablets or powder is impractical for research (6, 9). This is why arginine is usually infused directly into the blood via peripheral IV for scientific studies, and even then an impractical dose of 30 grams of this amino acid is common.

In fact, one study compared infusions and oral dosing. The researchers found that six grams of arginine had no effect via either route of administration, while it took a 30 gram infusion to cause vasodilation (6). So, it takes a 30 gram IV dose to get results. If we were to get these results from an oral dose, we’d have to take 43 grams because only 70% of it is bioavailable (i.e. 30 / .7 = 43).

Now if 10 grams can cause gastric upset, then the 43 gram oral dose (with bioavailability taken into account) makes me more than a little uneasy.

Arginine: A No Go for NO

If you think that this lack of effect is an isolated incident, other studies investigating high oral doses of arginine and NO induced blood flow have shown no effect when 21 grams (7 g 3x/d) were used (1). Two additional studies where 20 grams per day were taken for 28 days also showed no effects (11,12).

At first, this complete lack of effect was a little surprising considering that arginine is the precursor for nitric oxide synthesis. But upon closer inspection, natural arginine levels are far in excess of what should activate the enzyme responsible for NO production — an effect known as the arginine paradox (21).

In yet another study, a six day, arginine free diet had no effect on nitric oxide synthesis. This indicates that arginine isn't limiting for NO production, and its regulation is far more complicated than supplement companies would have us believe (9).

Of course, the whole rested and fasted thing doesn’t apply to you, so let’s see what happened when exercise was involved. This next noteworthy study used 10 grams of arginine along with 70 grams of carbohydrates in subjects who either performed resistance training or cycling exercise (26). The results? There were no changes in blood flow or glucose uptake compared to placebo, regardless of which mode of exercise was used. This is significant because it directly contradicts the claims of the supplement manufacturers.

For those who are more skeptical, or perhaps just brainwashed by flashy advertising, you’re probably not happy with studies using pure arginine. Oh no, it has to be special arginine, like the ones used in the popular products, before you’ll believe any results. Fine, let's look into the science and crack that nut.


The Acid Test
While it’s important to understand the evidence behind normal arginine supplementation, many would argue that it doesn’t apply to the original nitric oxide-stimulating supplement, NO2. This is because the aforementioned product contains arginine alpha-ketoglutarate, not simply arginine. The theory is that alpha ketoglutarate (AKG) somehow makes this supplement "work." Okay, that’s cool, let’s see what science has to say.

This specific product had several studies performed on it, and they were presented at the International Society of Sports Nutrition conference in the summer of 2004. While the findings do not yet come from peer reviewed publications, they yield important information about the efficacy, or lack thereof, of this supplement.

The first study examined the blood levels of arginine and "time released arginine" (following a four gram supplementation with each) to determine whether the latter enhanced the duration of elevated blood arginine levels (18). The reasoning for this study is due to the claim that NO2 has time-release technology, resulting in "perpetual pumps."

Unfortunately for the company, blood arginine levels were nearly all quite similar, and at times 30% lower, in the time-release trial compared to the pure arginine trial! The reason for the lower levels of the former group remains elusive, but could be due to a decreased absorption by the gut, an increased uptake by tissues, or a half dozen other fates for arginine (see 4). Not surprisingly, there was nothing resembling a "time release" effect.

The second study of interest evaluated the effects of NO2 on body composition, muscle strength and endurance (8). For eight weeks, subjects took either 12 grams of NO2 or placebo and underwent a resistance training protocol. At the end of the time period, subjects between groups had no differences in either muscle mass or body fat percentage.

Interestingly, the NO2 group threw an average of 19 pounds onto their bench 1RM, while the placebo group added less than a six pound mean. Does it seem strange to anyone else that this supplement alone supposedly added an average of more than 13 pounds to bench press 1RM over placebo without a concomitant change in muscle mass? This would indicate that the changes are strictly neural in origin, which gets quite complicated and goes beyond the scope of this article.

I'll briefly mention that while nitric oxide itself can have a negative effect on the force of muscle contraction (25), this effect has yet to be shown in humans, and doesn’t warrant serious consideration for our purposes. More importantly, all of the scientific evidence indicates that it's not even possible for us to consume high enough levels of arginine to effectively increase nitric oxide levels! Since this unpublished study is already gracing the advertisements for this supplement, we need to examine the results in a little more detail.

If the subjects in the above study were untrained, they would all add a significant amount of strength without changes in muscle mass within the first several weeks of working out. In this case, these rapid neural adaptations would be expected in both groups, but wouldn't explain how arginine seemingly tripled the improvement in the nervous system activation.

However, since the subjects were in fact trained, the situation is even more puzzling. Unlike novice trainees, strength increases in trained individuals tend to be more a result of muscle growth, which means that there should've been some changes in lean body mass accompanying the other gains. There wasn't.

I would've been impressed, albeit skeptical, by a three or four pound gain over the placebo group on bench press 1RM, but an average of 13 pounds?! Looking at it another way, this means an average gain of two and a half pounds on bench 1RM each week, and this progress is maintained for a whole eight weeks on the same program!

If this trend continued for all exercises, which it presumably does, everyone with these results could easily become a competitive powerlifter. Although such improvements might be theoretically possible, you must remember that these fantastic results were achieved on a training program and diet that normally leads to a mere six pound addition to bench press. Furthermore, to have such incredible strength gains throughout every muscle group, without even the slightest trend for improved muscle growth, demands questioning.

Considering the other research which showed no effect on blood flow and no time release effect, the results just don’t fit. Whether it be improper group selection, outliers in the data, or measurement error, the results presented remain questionable.

With my objective experience as a strength coach, researcher and bodybuilder, I don't believe these results to be possible. Having said that, this article is merely intended to give you the facts that you won’t get anywhere else, and allow you make up your own mind.
to be continued...
 
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...continued

Let’s sum of the results of this study and others:

• One group used oral arginine in this study, but oral arginine supplementation doesn't affect blood flow.

• The arginine group used "time release" arginine, but so-called time release arginine is not actually time released.

• The trained individuals in the NO2 group got stronger without increasing muscle growth, but trained individuals get stronger mostly due to muscle growth.

• The training program and diet alone yielded a six pound increase in bench 1RM, yet four grams of NO2 taken three times a day tripled strength gains on the same program.

In short, something just isn't right.


But Wait, I Thought I Felt Something!
I’m sure some people are reading this and thinking, "But I know these products work because I’ve taken them and feel their effects!" While these perceived effects are potent, I submit to you that based on the scientific evidence, this is merely a result of the placebo effect.

The placebo effect is when someone uses an inert substance, which should produce no effect, yet somehow still experiences an effect. This occurs frequently when pharmaceutical companies test a new drug. They give one group the real drug and another group an inert sugar pill. Interestingly, the group receiving the sugar pill often has a series of side effects like dry mouth, headaches, dizziness, adding ten pounds to their bench, etc. — all caused by their own minds!

One famous research analysis calculated the placebo effect to account for 75% of a drug’s effect, although this exact figure remains controversial (19). It’s amazing what dogma we can succumb to in the face of contrary reason and evidence, merely because we want to believe something. This belief, desire and trust all seem to work at the neurological level of the brain (10). This indicates that it’s more than a matter of a few people being tricked by unscrupulous companies.

Unfortunately, the situation is even worse when it comes to sports supplements because of our expectations. Hundreds of advertisements with spectacular claims, combined with our incredibly strong desire to believe that these supplements work, often defeat our poor psyches. I call this a directed placebo effect, because we have not only a simple belief in what the supplement is supposed to do, but a powerful desire to believe in its effectiveness.

What can make our desire to believe in these products even stronger is the very fact that we've already purchased them! After all, recognizing that a product doesn’t work is like admitting that we were duped — something no one wants to do. Hey, I've fallen into this trap too in the past. We're all susceptible.

Even if you still believe in the products in question, you’ll now be aware of this powerful psychological effect.


But What About Growth Hormone Release?
In response to this rather damning article, some companies will scrounge up data showing that arginine can elevate growth hormone levels. While we’ve known for the past decade that this applies only to huge doses infused into the bloodstream, many people will be unaware of this trick.

Now, there's evidence that ingesting 22 grams per day (in a 200 pound man) of arginine aspartate increased nocturnal growth hormone output (5). The peak GH output during sleep was increased by an average of 60%. Unfortunately, only five subjects were studied and one of them had four times the peak output of the others. Without that one oddball subject, the average peak was cut in half! (Again, these are just peak measurements, not total levels.)

Also of note, prolactin increased by an average of 75%. This hormone is associated with decreased Testosterone (7)! What’s really scary is that a mere five grams of arginine consumed during exercise actually decreased the resistance exercise-induced increase in GH output (24)!

The bottom line is that you can forget about arginine and GH stimulation, despite what the advertisements try to tell you.


The Real Secret

Here’s where things get real interesting. You may want to be seated for this, because I’m about to blow the lid off the whole deal.

Arginine is the amino acid known to be the most potent insulin secretagogue, meaning that it causes insulin release from the pancreas (4). Now this is of critical importance, because insulin itself stimulates vasodilation and blood flow (2), and this occurs via elevations in nitric oxide synthesis (27).

So arginine stimulates insulin, and insulin stimulates nitric oxide. Nitric oxide causes vasodilation and increased blood flow. Hmmm… Combining this info with what the scientific literature tells us, we can see that much of arginine’s vasodilatory effect can be attributed to insulin secretion!

In fact, one study examined the extent of this very effect, and the results are shocking. Researchers infused the standard 30 grams of arginine with or without blocking insulin release from the pancreas (15). As usual, the massive arginine infusion increased blood flow. But, when insulin release was blocked, blood flow decreased by 77%!

When the latter experiment was repeated with an insulin infusion, blood flow was completely restored! So, over three-quarters of the increased blood flow response was caused by insulin. While not all arginine-induced blood flow can be attributed to insulin, you must remember that these studies use the equivalent of over 40 grams orally ingested arginine, which isn't even possible to tolerate.


The Revised Theory:
Arginine -> Insulin -> Nitric Oxide -> Vasodilation -> Nutrient Delivery -> Muscle Growth and Strength

You have to wonder if the companies who produce these supplements knew this when they began to market them. If they did, then they intentionally swindled people. If they didn’t, then they clearly didn’t have any idea what they were asking people to put into their bodies. Either way, it’s lose-lose for them.

To make things worse, AKG is being shown to play a role in stimulating insulin secretion (23), suggesting that companies may have indeed been trying to pull the wool over our eyes the whole time.

While this addition may seem beneficial, you have to remember that we still have no real evidence even suggesting that any of these products work at reasonable doses. And don't forget, an increase in insulin levels (and therefore blood flow) is all too easy to obtain without NO products.

Why would we use arginine to stimulate blood flow when we can get direct effects by manipulating insulin? In Part II of this article, I'll tell you how to do that without arginine supplements. The good news is, you're probably already doing it!


Summary
• Arginine blood flow stimulators ("nitric-oxide" or "NO2" supplements) have been shown to increase vasodilation, but only in unfed people receiving enormous doses through an IV.

• Oral arginine supplementation doesn't affect blood flow.

• A dose as low as 10 grams has been associated with gastric upset when consumed orally. This dose has no significant effect on glycogen storage, even if it didn't cause diarrhea.

• Time release arginine is supposed to lead to a "perpetual pump" effect. New studies have shown this not to be the case.

• NO2 was shown to have no effect compared to a placebo on body composition or muscle strength.

• It's not possible for us to consume high enough levels of arginine to effectively increase nitric oxide levels.

• Copycat NO2 products are no better than the original supplement. In fact, those that contain glycocyamine should be avoided because of potential health concerns.

• If you think these products work for you, then you'd better look into the placebo effect.

• Arginine might temporarily elevate growth hormone levels, but only if you're able to take unrealistic doses. There's little evidence to support that this short term increase in GH would do anything for your physique anyway.

• In one study, arginine aspartate was shown to increase prolactin by an average of 75%. Prolactin is associated with decreased Testosterone levels.

• Five grams of arginine consumed during resistance exercise was shown to decrease normal exercise-induced GH output.

• The positive benefits of oral arginine supplementation can only be achieved through doses higher than the human body can handle. And most (but not all) of this effect is mediated by insulin. So if you want to have blood flow increases equivalent to a huge IV arginine infusion, just manipulate insulin through other means
 

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