Best muscle-hardening supplement?

[dhuge67]

I seem to have an issue (maybe due to how I lift, but maybe genetics) with my arms specifically not looking hard, except when holding a heavy weight or lifting a heavy weight. I am not sure what this is due to, but it's annoying. My muscles look hard and full as hell when I, for example, lift the 90 lb dumbbells off of the rack and then sling them up to shoulder-height to begin military presses, but when I am not holding the DBs, my arms look "flat."

I also follow a pretty low-carb diet, never getting near 250 grams a day. I'm at most around 150, and more normally around 100 grams, sometimes being as low as 30.

What would people recommend (supplement, dietary, or training advice) to get more of a "hard" and "strained" look to the muscles, while they are at rest?
:frustrate

 

[Cellardude]

muscle harding feeling has to do with the your blood flow I believe. I think its the low carb diet that is causing the flat feeling. I remember when I was on anabolic pump I had a nice muscle harding effect all over. Maybe you should try that.

 

[dhuge67]

How many carbs are we talking?

I am talking about the look of muscle-tension. I only get it when I have weight in my hands, or when I was using Epistane. It also occurs for about an hour after a dose of IGF-2, but the hardness seems to fade. I'm thinking it has more to do with low carbs than it does training parameters or supplementation, or even genetics.

I'm still not sure though and I'm kinda scared to bump carbs too high for the sake of an aesthetic effect.

 

[JJC]

I agree. More carbs will help fill out your muscles. Whenever I ran a low carb, moderate/high fat, and high protein diet, I felt/looked flat, felt weaker, had less energy, and was not nearly as vascular.

As far as hardening supps go...I'm not exactly sure. I think almost any anti-e and/or test booster or something containing divanil. I've also heard ecdy products will harden you up...but I haven't tried any yet. Hopefully someone else can be more helpful here...

Honestly, it looks like your bodyfat is already pretty low so normally I would've said that could be it, but maybe your arms are just not big enough to stretch the skin like you're looking for. I've got the same problem tho, so don't feel too bad!

 

[Cellardude]

How many carbs are we talking?

I am talking about the look of muscle-tension. I only get it when I have weight in my hands, or when I was using Epistane. It also occurs for about an hour after a dose of IGF-2, but the hardness seems to fade. I'm thinking it has more to do with low carbs than it does training parameters or supplementation, or even genetics.

I'm still not sure though and I'm kinda scared to bump carbs too high for the sake of an aesthetic effect.

I think so too. I doubt it has much to do with your training or supplements. I think it is the fact that your low on carbs. you can bump up the carbs and add in anabolic pump. My carb intake was extremely high while on anabolic pump. In fact i took 100g of carbs post workout. many users of anabolic pump have reported swelling of muscles, harding and some fat lost. I myself didnt experience fat lost but I didnt get fatter.

 

[JJC]

How many carbs are we talking?

I am talking about the look of muscle-tension. I only get it when I have weight in my hands, or when I was using Epistane. It also occurs for about an hour after a dose of IGF-2, but the hardness seems to fade. I'm thinking it has more to do with low carbs than it does training parameters or supplementation, or even genetics.

I'm still not sure though and I'm kinda scared to bump carbs too high for the sake of an aesthetic effect.

Well there you go. You liked when you were using Epistane, didn't you? In that case, get an anti-e. Try transdermal formestane(5g of formestane + 1 bottle of penetrate). You will start to harden up and see some nice vascularity. Once you're done, you will lose some of that look but since I used it I can still get the veins across my shoulders and chest to pop.

But also look into playing around with your carb intake.

 

[Cellardude]

I agree. More carbs will help fill out your muscles. Whenever I ran a low carb, moderate/high fat, and high protein diet, I felt/looked flat, felt weaker, had less energy, and was not nearly as vascular.

As far as hardening supps go...I'm not exactly sure. I think almost any anti-e and/or test booster or something containing divanil. I've also heard ecdy products will harden you up...but I haven't tried any yet. Hopefully someone else can be more helpful here...

Honestly, it looks like your bodyfat is already pretty low so normally I would've said that could be it, but maybe your arms are just not big enough to stretch the skin like you're looking for. I've got the same problem tho, so don't feel too bad!

stretching skin wise anabolic pump gave me that streching skin wise look. It improved my arms in overall hardness especially PWO with the 100 grams of carbs. if your looking for more of a skin streching look anabolic pump is what you looking for. Overall hardness, insane pumps, skin strectching actually. It's quite amazing. maybe others might be able to chime in with their experiences with Anabolic pump. I recieved a mega sample from a friend (60 pills) and I noticed some nice gains and hardness from it. but yeah I do believe your carb intake is whats causing that flat muscle look.

 

[JJC]

I think so too. I doubt it has much to do with your training or supplements. I think it is the fact that your low on carbs. you can bump up the carbs and add in anabolic pump. My carb intake was extremely high while on anabolic pump. In fact i took 100g of carbs post workout. many users of anabolic pump have reported swelling of muscles, harding and some fat lost. I myself didnt experience fat lost but I didnt get fatter.

I didn't get much out of Anabolic Pump nor P-Slin (although I think P-Slin > AP for me). But P-Slin is another option if you wanted to try something like AP. So is ALA.

Those supps are kind of frightening to me though, because I feel that I am a little carb sensitive. Taking in 60-100g carbs in one sitting always made me feel a little uneasy...you might feel the same way too. But any of those supps will help keep the spike in blood sugar low.

 

[dhuge67]

I didn't get much out of Anabolic Pump nor P-Slin (although I think P-Slin > AP for me). But P-Slin is another option if you wanted to try something like AP. So is ALA.

Those supps are kind of frightening to me though, because I feel that I am a little carb sensitive. Taking in 60-100g carbs in one sitting always made me feel a little uneasy...you might feel the same way too. But any of those supps will help keep the spike in blood sugar low.

I did just buy P-Slin, but I don't think I'll go beyond that and get AP, because I just can't do that kind of carb intake at 3 meals a day, plus P-Slin.
:sad:

 

[thesinner]

muscle harding feeling has to do with the your blood flow I believe. I think its the low carb diet that is causing the flat feeling. I remember when I was on anabolic pump I had a nice muscle harding effect all over. Maybe you should try that.

:thumbsup:

carb depletion will flatten you out.


Some good supps for increasing hardness would be:
Ecdysterones
Anabolic Pump
HyperdrolX2

if funds permit, you can stack all 3 of them together for a crazy sick harness/recomp stack

 

[JJC]

I did just buy P-Slin, but I don't think I'll go beyond that and get AP, because I just can't do that kind of carb intake at 3 meals a day, plus P-Slin.
:sad:

Yeah I hear ya. It was always hard to remember to take the stupid pill three times a day and before carb containing meals. It was just too much carbs, too many times per day.

P-Slin was better, IMO...althought I don't think I'd buy it again. Give it a shot though. It will help give you some peace of mind when you bump of your carb count before workouts. Plus if you time it right, you will be able to glean some clean, real, non-stim energy from it. Maybe look into ALA too, that should help with the increased carb intake as well.

But like I mentioned before, you liked Epistane which has SERM-like/anti-estrogen properties. So an anti-e could help too. You've got some options to look into now though.

 

[dsade]

Some good supps for increasing hardness would be:
Ecdysterones

At high enough dosage (>1.5 grams a day of active) I agree.

 

[Cellardude]

:thumbsup:

carb depletion will flatten you out.


Some good supps for increasing hardness would be:
Ecdysterones
Anabolic Pump
HyperdrolX2

if funds permit, you can stack all 3 of them together for a crazy sick harness/recomp stack

:goodpost:

I couldnt have said it better myself. :whip:

 

[JJC]

:goodpost:

I couldnt have said it better myself. :whip:

Hey! I said most of those too! :sad: haha

 

[RisingAgainst]

At high enough dosage (>1.5 grams a day of active) I agree.

I agree as well, despite popular flamings on my usage of Ecdy products.

 

[dhuge67]

I may look into running Hyperdrol at some point. Is it best run for 4 or 8 weeks?

 

[thesinner]

At high enough dosage (>1.5 grams a day of active) I agree.

that high? I've had good results at much lower dosages (~500mg actives)

 

[RisingAgainst]

that high? I've had good results at much lower dosages (~500mg actives)

Eh... I havent... just over a gram, (I'm thinking it was about 1200mgs actually) is where I noticed effects... (my disclaimer to all: no, I wasn't feeling like a jacked russian on special russian roids...).... I did however get fair strength gains and great hardness/appearance.

 

[thesinner]

Eh... I havent... just over a gram, (I'm thinking it was about 1200mgs actually) is where I noticed effects... (my disclaimer to all: no, I wasn't feeling like a jacked russian on special russian roids...).... I did however get fair strength gains and great hardness/appearance.

yeah, there's a bit too much hype on the stuff. It's a good ergogenic aid, and it really helps with recovery (IMHO). It will not be enough to qualify you for Mr. O 2008, though.........maybe '09......if you're lucky.

 

[AtomSmasher]

I'm taking Furazadrol right now and im getting some great muscle hardening and vascularity. Not sure if your looking for a pro hormone to take, but fura would be a good choice if you were.

 

[LilPsychotic]

I seem to have an issue (maybe due to how I lift, but maybe genetics) with my arms specifically not looking hard, except when holding a heavy weight or lifting a heavy weight. I am not sure what this is due to, but it's annoying. My muscles look hard and full as hell when I, for example, lift the 90 lb dumbbells off of the rack and then sling them up to shoulder-height to begin military presses, but when I am not holding the DBs, my arms look "flat."

I also follow a pretty low-carb diet, never getting near 250 grams a day. I'm at most around 150, and more normally around 100 grams, sometimes being as low as 30.

What would people recommend (supplement, dietary, or training advice) to get more of a "hard" and "strained" look to the muscles, while they are at rest?
:frustrate

Yeah, Its def. the low carb diet. Throughout the week I have 3 moderate carb days (100-150g), three low carb days (~50g), then a high carb day(~500g). During the first six days, I get progressively flatter then blow up on the high carb day. The idea is when you deplete your body of glycogen, fat goes with it. But in order not to lose any mass I have to bring everything back up on the high carb day, then start the cycle again. I usually do this for most of the year, unless I'm on cycle where I need a surplus of complex carbs.

 

[dsade]

that high? I've had good results at much lower dosages (~500mg actives)

I think you probably weigh 1/3 of what I do.

 

[thesinner]

I think you probably weigh 1/3 of what I do.

you weigh 540lbs?!

Lol, dosages would more likely function asymptotically rather than linearly. (Now if we only know the limit, we'd be cooking with bug juice). Either that, or I'm gonna have to yell at Crader for not kicking your ass in gear.

 

[dhuge67]

you weigh 540lbs?!

And he's not even fat! :woohoo:

 

[dhuge67]

Anyway, so I guess in this case the best muscle hardening supplement is FOOD. haha, there we go again.

 

[dsade]

you weigh 540lbs?!

Lol, dosages would more likely function asymptotically rather than linearly. (Now if we only know the limit, we'd be cooking with bug juice). Either that, or I'm gonna have to yell at Crader for not kicking your ass in gear.

I wonder if Ecdy can be cyclodextrined, since the half-life is so miniscule. This would lend itself perfectly to multiple dosages throughout the day.

I remember when the 1-t Cyclo came out, I added a small bit of water and crystal light and made these lozenges that I would suck on every hour. Made some excellent gains, and it was simple to dose 5-10 times a day.

 

[Cellardude]

Anyway, so I guess in this case the best muscle hardening supplement is FOOD. haha, there we go again.

well put :hammer:

 

[xjsynx]

Aspire36

 

[JJC]

Aspire36

Not sure if that's the muscle he's looking to harden...:lol:

 

[thesinner]

I wonder if Ecdy can be cyclodextrined, since the half-life is so miniscule. This would lend itself perfectly to multiple dosages throughout the day.

I remember when the 1-t Cyclo came out, I added a small bit of water and crystal light and made these lozenges that I would suck on every hour. Made some excellent gains, and it was simple to dose 5-10 times a day.

This revamps an old idea I once had. Check your PM box.

 

[dhuge67]

Uhm, how weird is it that the Drive write-up is basically an answer to this post?

 

[prld2gr8ns]

I wonder if Ecdy can be cyclodextrined, since the half-life is so miniscule. This would lend itself perfectly to multiple dosages throughout the day.

Is ecdy lipophilic?

 

[thesinner]

Is ecdy lipophilic?

Oh yeah!

 

[dsade]

Is ecdy lipophilic?

Absolutely. Got your PM, sinner...gotta look into supply.

We are also going to have to get a pretty strong Ecdy extract...perhaps 80%, but I think this is an ideal candidate for cyclo.

 

[thesinner]

Absolutely. Got your PM, sinner...gotta look into supply.

We are also going to have to get a pretty strong Ecdy extract...perhaps 80%, but I think this is an ideal candidate for cyclo.

Sinner = excited

If you haven't noticed my mentioning in several threads, I'd be very excited to see a new ecdy product come about.

 

[dsade]

Prior to this, short of scoring a minimum 80% extract for dirt cheap I would not push this hard.

A cyclo, on the other hand, would be perfect. Cyclo-Ecdy? EcdyDextrin?

 

[Dancebot 2000]

If your set in your low carb ways, you could try Glycerol, like in Glycergrow from Controlled Labs. It fills your glycogen stores without adding carbs, giving you that full look back. Carbolin is also really good for looking hard.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

If your set in your low carb ways, you could try Glycerol, like in Glycergrow from Controlled Labs. It fills your glycogen stores without adding carbs, giving you that full look back. Carbolin is also really good for looking hard.

That's a debate I've been having with Glycerol as of lately. It's not considered a true carb, yet it feels glycogen stores primarily by it's role as a main constituent in gluconeogenisis and it's subsequent conversion into... guess what~glucose. Something of interest would be checking ketosis state after a dose of Glycerol to see if it would indeed have any detrimental effects on a low carb diet. My thinking is that it would just by physiology alone.

Dsade if you secure a 80% ecdy, put me down for a couple hundred grams. Sinner and the guys have got my interest re-piqued again. EcdyDextrin sounds stellar.:thumbsup:

 

[easymac]

gimme some EcdyDextrin please :head:

 

[prld2gr8ns]

gimme some EcdyDextrin please :head:

Looks like the name rings a cord.

 

[phrost]

furazadrol

 

[dhuge67]

furazadrol

Uh, no. **** didn't do anything for me. Tried it a good while back (2 bottles - 3-4 pills a day) and didn't get much out of it. Maybe better recovery, but no fat loss or muscle gain.

 

[thesinner]

furzadrol is furzabol minus the methyl. Furzabol is Winstrol with a very very minor adjustment (make a nitrogen atom an oxygen).

Furzadrol and Prostanozol are gonna be great curring agents (very poor muscle builders, terrible for bulking). But you have to keep your expectations with reason. You can't simply take it alone and expect to get shredded. A solid diet and training need to come before supplements and all 3 need to come before steroids. Once you understand this hierarchy, you will be envied by your success.

 

[swole210]

I'm currently following a carb cycling diet(have been for bout two months now) and have had great success in losing the lard!:head: Now of course on my carb up day, look a lot fuller and vascular, but I never get flat lookin on low carb days which is the major part of the week. I can just be standing there not flexing, and not pumped at all(cold), and see a lot of striations in my shoulders for example. So maybe my anti (Restore) and m anit Cort (Retain 2) are keeping me.....umm I mean my muscles looking hard So maybe give something like this combo a try and see what happens.

 

[pistonpump]

aspire36....haha that was hilarious.


i was going to say an AI and something like Retain as well.