Arachidonic Acid: Bodybuilder's Friend or Foe?

[strategicmove]

Some supplements contain arachidonic acid (AA), espousing it as an important anabolic compound. On the other hand, I have read articles describing arachidonic acid as a chief inflammatory compound producing producing several undesirable consequences.

Specifically, an article in the February 2007 edition of the Life Extension Magazine by William Faloon titled "Eating Your Way to Prostrate Cancer" suggests that an excess or elevated level of arachidonic acid can stimulate prostrate cancer, create processes leading to heart attack, cause tissue destruction, chronic inflammation, and increased resistance of tumor cells to apoptosis (programmed cell destruction).

He recommended the reduction of arachidonic acid's effects via the consumption of cyclooxygenase (COX) inhibitors that inhibit the toxic by-products of arachidonic acid metabolism. COX inhibitors include low-dose aspirin, curcumin, green tea, and resveratrol.

So, is arachidonic acid a bodybuilder's friend or foe?

Only objective responses, please!

 

[krogtaar]

inflammation appears to be good for muscle growth, not good for other things.

 

[BullzEye]

i believe cycling AA seems to diminish the serious potential side effects.

 

[Cellardude]

i believe cycling AA seems to diminish the serious potential side effects.

agreed.

 

[Cellardude]

I also read somewhere that AA may speed up prostrate cancer however it was never proven to have a direct link to prostate cancer itself.

 

[jjohn]

I also read somewhere that AA may speed up prostrate cancer however it was never proven to have a direct link to prostate cancer itself.

Just remember, if you HAVE cancer cells, it will speed up growth. But, there are no evidence that it causes it.

 

[BullzEye]

Although AA is a great product, i will not run another cycle. Joint pain, and removing fish from my diet was not something i want to do again.

I did make reasonable gains both in size and strength, but im sure some of that was due to eating beef 4x a day, and eggs for the other 3 meals...

They are the true musclebuilders.

 

[jjohn]

Although AA is a great product, i will not run another cycle. Joint pain, and removing fish from my diet was not something i want to do again.

I did make reasonable gains both in size and strength, but im sure some of that was due to eating beef 4x a day, and eggs for the other 3 meals...

They are the true musclebuilders.

The eggs also contain AA which is one of the egg's secret for muscle building

 

[Cellardude]

mnnn Ive been wondering jjohn. has anyone tried cissus with AA? some results on a incarnate and xfactor stack would be awesome. how about throwing that stack into the mega stack thread jjohn .

 

[BullzEye]

The eggs also contain AA which is one of the egg's secret for muscle building

And so does beef

I was upward of 16 whole eggs a day + 800g of beef + 4 AA caps, yeah i grew, but i could hardly walk...

 

[jjohn]

mnnn Ive been wondering jjohn. has anyone tried cissus with AA? some results on a incarnate and xfactor stack would be awesome. how about throwing that stack into the mega stack thread jjohn .

Haha, that will be coming someday if this thread goes well I have done cissus and it worked great for me!

 

[BullzEye]

mnnn Ive been wondering jjohn. has anyone tried cissus with AA? some results on a incarnate and xfactor stack would be awesome. how about throwing that stack into the mega stack thread jjohn .

Possibly X-Factor and the revised version of AP?

 

[Cellardude]

id love to see a log on it of some sort ehem . I want to run x-factor with incarnate RPM and citrulline malate. seems like a killer combo.

 

[BullzEye]

Possibly X-Factor and the revised version of AP?

bump :ntome: Would there be any issue with AP's anti-inflammatory effects?

 

[johnyq]

And so does beef

I was upward of 16 whole eggs a day + 800g of beef + 4 AA caps, yeah i grew, but i could hardly walk...

Jesus, I laughed, but that is a lot. At that point you really have to start weighing the effects of hormonal supplements instead.


I'm not sold one or the other, I'm apprehensive though.

 

[BullzEye]

Jesus, I laughed, but that is a lot. At that point you really have to start weighing the effects of hormonal supplements instead.


I'm not sold one or the other, I'm apprehensive though.

Unfortunately at this age and stage AAS/PH's are not an option for me. There is progress with what i am doing anyway. People underate the anabolic effect of food.

 

[johnyq]

Unfortunately at this age and stage anabolic steroids/PH's are not an option for me. There is progress with what i am doing anyway. People underate the anabolic effect of food.

I don't doubt it, what I meant is you may be hurting yourself more than if you took the anabolic steroids/PH route. That is a personal decisions though, one you have obviously made

 

[BullzEye]

I don't doubt it, what I meant is you may be hurting yourself more than if you took the anabolic steroids/PH route. That is a personal decisions though, one you have obviously made

I agree. I do think limiting my diet (like i am doing with my second cycle of AA) is a serious detriment - one that i will probably not be following again. I would be a strong supporter of AA supplementation if omega-3's were permitted, but unfortunately that is not the case. I may in future look into Cissus + MRM/Glucosamine and see how well this masks the dryness.

 

[strategicmove]

...

What happened to your old avatar? Was great!

 

[strategicmove]

inflammation appears to be good for muscle growth, not good for other things.

Not necessarily. It depends on what type of inflammation we are talking about. There are different types of inflammations, acute (roughly transient, short-term) and chronic (roughly persistent). Chronic inflammation is implicated in the pathogenesis of several serious medical conditions including, but not limited to, atherosclerosis, cancer, heart valve dysfunction, obesity, diabetes, congestive heart failure, digestive system diseases, Alzheimer's disease, Allergy, Anemia, Arthritis, Fibromyalgia, Firbrosis, Kidney Failure, and Lupus.
You probably either meant muscle soreness due to cellular lactic-acid build or structural muscle "damage" due to delayed-onset muscle soreness (DOMS). Lactic-acid levels, though, return to normal levels within an hour of muscular stress, whereas pains associated with DOMS peaks with 24-72 hours after exercise. DOMS are not caused by elevated lactic acid levels, and I am not sure both are induced by arachidonic acid.

 

[strategicmove]

i believe cycling AA seems to diminish the serious potential side effects.

This will definitely make a lot of sense. Same as for some other supplements, but for different reasons.

 

[strategicmove]

i believe cycling AA seems to diminish the serious potential side effects.

The chart below highlights arachidonic acid's cascading pathway to damaging compounds in the body, causing arthritic, carcinogenic, and cardiovascular conditions. I am not sure which of these is beneficial to bodybuilders. To be sure, I want us to discuss arachidonic acid's proper anabolic pathway juxtaposed with the possible sides, so we can make an informed decision regarding the benefits of arachidonic acid for muscular hypertrophy.

 

[BullzEye]

The chart below highlights arachidonic acid's cascading pathway to damaging compounds in the body, causing arthritic, carcinogenic, and cardiovascular conditions. I am not sure which of these is beneficial to bodybuilders. To be sure, I want us to discuss arachidonic acid's proper anabolic pathway juxtaposed with the possible sides, so we can make an informed decision regarding the benefits of arachidonic acid for muscular hypertrophy.

That is a very interesting and informative post. What needs to be provided now is if the presence of Prostoglandlin E2 needs to be present to exert its anabolic effects - if not, it seems the most common sides could be diminished relatively easily without jeapordizing its efficacy. I hope a MN rep chimes in...

 

[strategicmove]

...Would there be any issue with AP's anti-inflammatory effects?

What is "AP"?

 

[BullzEye]

What is "AP"?

Anabolic Pump - it has some strong anti-inflammatory affects. Just done some research,shows it should be fine. That would be quite the non-hormonal stack i must say.

 

[jjohn]

Anabolic Pump - it has some strong anti-inflammatory affects. Just done some research,shows it should be fine. That would be quite the non-hormonal stack i must say.

There are 3 logs coming up with PSlin

 

[strategicmove]

The chart below highlights arachidonic acid's cascading pathway to damaging compounds in the body, causing arthritic, carcinogenic, and cardiovascular conditions. I am not sure which of these is beneficial to bodybuilders. To be sure, I want us to discuss arachidonic acid's proper anabolic pathway juxtaposed with the possible sides, so we can make an informed decision regarding the benefits of arachidonic acid for muscular hypertrophy.

Some explanations of some enzymes in the earlier flow-chart:

5-LOX (5-Lipooxygenase)
An enzyme that is produced in higher amounts by the body in response to an overload of arachidonic acid. 5-LOX functions to degrade arachidonic acid. However, 5-LOX directly stimulates the propagation of cancer cells. Furthermore, 5-LOX produces breakdown products from arachidonic acid. These products, leukotriene B4, 5-HETE, and hydroxylated fatty acids, motivate tissue destruction, chronic inflammation, as well as the increased resistance of tumor cells to apoptosis or programmed cell destruction.

Apart from 5-LOX, the body produces other dangerous enzymes such as cyclooxygenase-1 (COX-1) and cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2) that participate in the breakdown of arachidonic acid.

COX-1 leads to the production of thromboxane A2. Thromboxane can enhance abnormal arterial blood clotting or thrombosis, leading to heart attack and stroke.

COX-2 participates directly in cancer cell propagation. Its breakdown product, prostaglandin E2 fosters chronic inflammation.

 

[strategicmove]

Anabolic Pump - it has some strong anti-inflammatory affects. Just done some research,shows it should be fine. That would be quite the non-hormonal stack i must say.

If it is anti-inflammatory, then taking it simultaneously with arachidonic acid will weaken or neutralize the impact of arachidonic acid.

 

[BullzEye]

If it is anti-inflammatory, then taking it simultaneously with arachidonic acid will weaken or neutralize the impact of arachidonic acid.

The anti-inflammatory effects seem to be negligible through anecdotal feedback, but yes to some degree the efficacy would be tarnished.

 

[strategicmove]

The anti-inflammatory effects seem to be negligible through anecdotal feedback, but yes to some degree the efficacy would be tarnished.

If Anabolic Pump's anti-inflammatory effects are negligible, then it is an interesting anti-inflammatory!

 

[dhuge67]

The AA content in fatty meat, eggs, and such is also why those on the Anabolic Diet do well and are constantly pumped....it's the inflammation.

It's the mirrors.

 

[strategicmove]

The AA content in fatty meat, eggs, and such is also why those on the Anabolic Diet do well and are constantly pumped....it's the inflammation.

It's the mirrors.

Its just that inflammation, especially due to dramatic elevations of cellular arachidonic acid levels, is not necessarily a good thing.

 

[strategicmove]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullzEye
Anabolic Pump - it has some strong anti-inflammatory affects. Just done some research,shows it should be fine. That would be quite the non-hormonal stack i must say.

There are 3 logs coming up with PSlin

What are your expectations, John?

 

[<^>]

We all have seen the results and posts from various users of XF but my roomate is a kinesiology major (spelling?) and he was telling me that fatty acids are the primary source of energy in muscles.

It seems this product you eliminate that and i just dont really understand the long term effects and whatnot.

 

[jjohn]

What are your expectations, John?

Even though AA increases insulin sensitivity, I do beleive that PSlin will greatly enhance the glycogen stored in muscles, and create way better pumps during the workout, increasing power, of course, thus increasing gains. This is all speculation though, but I am confident. :head:

 

[jjohn]

We all have seen the results and posts from various users of XF but my roomate is a kinesiology major (spelling?) and he was telling me that fatty acids are the primary source of energy in muscles.

It seems this product you eliminate that and i just dont really understand the long term effects and whatnot.

What are you trying to say there bud?

 

[Cellardude]

Even though AA increases insulin sensitivity, I do beleive that PSlin will greatly enhance the glycogen stored in muscles, and create way better pumps during the workout, increasing power, of course, thus increasing gains. This is all speculation though, but I am confident. :head:

and i would gladly test your speculation to prove you right

 

[BullzEye]

If Anabolic Pump's anti-inflammatory effects are negligible, then it is an interesting anti-inflammatory!

haha... i should have made my post clearer, the anti-inf. effects when used in conjunction with AA seem to be negligible, as strong results are still present...

 

[strategicmove]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cellardude
mnnn Ive been wondering jjohn. has anyone tried cissus with AA? some results on a incarnate and xfactor stack would be awesome. how about throwing that stack into the mega stack thread jjohn

Haha, that will be coming someday if this thread goes well I have done cissus and it worked great for me!

Hi John, any news yet on an Arachidonic Acid/Incarnate or Arachidonic Acid/X-Factor stack? An update should be interesting!

 

[jjohn]

Quote:

Hi John, any news yet on an Arachidonic Acid/Incarnate or Arachidonic Acid/X-Factor stack? An update should be interesting!

Well, I stated someday.. Not necessarily in this particular thread lol. But maybe someday

 

[strategicmove]

Well, I stated someday.. Not necessarily in this particular thread lol. But maybe someday

No need to get defensive. Just wanted to know the current status. It is also fine, if you decide to drop the idea completely. No hassles!

 

[EasyEJL]

We all have seen the results and posts from various users of XF but my roomate is a kinesiology major (spelling?) and he was telling me that fatty acids are the primary source of energy in muscles.

It seems this product you eliminate that and i just dont really understand the long term effects and whatnot.

Well, no, you are just eliminating omega 3s - fish + flax. You are still getting fatty acids from meat sources.

 

[EasyEJL]

Some supplements contain arachidonic acid (AA), espousing it as an important anabolic compound. On the other hand, I have read articles describing arachidonic acid as a chief inflammatory compound producing producing several undesirable consequences.

Specifically, an article in the February 2007 edition of the Life Extension Magazine by William Faloon titled "Eating Your Way to Prostrate Cancer" suggests that an excess or elevated level of arachidonic acid can stimulate prostrate cancer, create processes leading to heart attack, cause tissue destruction, chronic inflammation, and increased resistance of tumor cells to apoptosis (programmed cell destruction).

He recommended the reduction of arachidonic acid's effects via the consumption of cyclooxygenase (COX) inhibitors that inhibit the toxic by-products of arachidonic acid metabolism. COX inhibitors include low-dose aspirin, curcumin, green tea, and resveratrol.

So, is arachidonic acid a bodybuilder's friend or foe?

Only objective responses, please!

I think the real question is what levels of elevated AA over what sort of timeframe affect this. I don't think (other than jjohn ) many people here have done more than 2-3 cycles of x-factor. But there is definitely some cause for concern. Were there studies listed there we could link to online to read more about the specifics?

 

[jjohn]

http://molecularnutrition.net/studies_baylor.html
http://molecularnutrition.net/pdf/BenStudyUpdate.pdf

There ya go

 

[strategicmove]

I think the real question is what levels of elevated AA over what sort of timeframe affect this. I don't think (other than jjohn ) many people here have done more than 2-3 cycles of x-factor. But there is definitely some cause for concern. Were there studies listed there we could link to online to read more about the specifics?

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/feb2007_cover_prostate_01.htm

 

[EasyEJL]

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/feb2007_cover_prostate_01.htm

god are there enough references there? still none are dealing with dietary AA. they are either AA added in vitro to human prostate cancer cells "directly" or the products your body does convert AA into added. The problem I see is that I can't tell anything quantity wise from those. Is it the equivalent of 500mg of AA in a 200lb human or is it 500g ? none of them seem to show (at least not in their abstracts) the relative dose. Kinda reminds me of the sweet and low cancer scare.

 

[whitedevil74]

The Baylor Study was interesting because X-Factor seemed to reduce one of the primary markers of chronic inflammation (IL6). I have nothing to back this up but supplemental AA can be either good for you or bad for you depending on a person's activity levels. I would like to see X-factors effects on the body's levels of C-reactive protein which is another indicator of damaging inflammation in the body. Honestly there is just not any information either way to draw any firm conclusions about AA's effects on trained vs untrained individuals but I do believe that this is where AA's promise is located.

 

[dhuge67]

http://molecularnutrition.net/studies_baylor.html
http://molecularnutrition.net/pdf/BenStudyUpdate.pdf

There ya go

At least there are two Universities listed, but it'd be nice to see a little more.

 

[Outside Backer]

ive always been curious about AA but again from reading over and over. im torn between both,

unfort, I have no funds to run a proper cycle of x factor but id be interested in seeing more research

 

[therealest77]

Hey guy's I thought this was interesting, even thought their talking about chicken and pigs....

Arachidonic acid is the principal precursor of many biological
regulators. Products derived from arachidonic acid play an
essential role in embryo development, reproduction,