powerfull vs Bulk 1-carboxy-2-amino-3-pyrobenzo
- 09-09-2007, 12:19 PM
Can this idiot post the test on your Cissus? Answer the QUESTION PA. If anyone would be open to testing it should be you so not sure why you skip over the question or pretend it's not asked.
- 09-09-2007, 12:24 PM
- 09-09-2007, 12:30 PM
I clearly answered the question. Here it is again since you can not grasp onto it. 1-carboxy is L-Dopa with natural decarboxylase inhibitors native to the herb and this is the reason you get an effect from our product(Unlike your idiol PA who claims it's useless) compared to previous or current L-dopa products on the market.
Now I want my question answered from PA.
Can I post the Cissus test? Before posting, I will test in 3 more times to validate the initial findings.
PA stop avoiding the question.
09-09-2007, 12:31 PM
09-09-2007, 12:33 PM
09-09-2007, 12:35 PM
09-09-2007, 12:45 PM
Here is my take on what PAT is doing. Pat has felt the heat of the feds come down on him firsthand and knows what they can do if they so choose. The supplement industry is one piece of legislation away form extinction and the supplement companies with their unethical business practices and insane and irresponsible claims are practically drafting the legislation themselves by their reckless and self-serving actions. Yes it is a business and yes it is cut throat, but more and more companies are entering this area every day and are desperate to make as much money as they can, by whatever methods they can, and then cash out. PA i believe really loves this industry and Ergopharm is his passion in life and he sees this industry about to be destroyed. Now PA has a bit of blame in this as 1-ad was what captured the feds attention, but there were so many other companies that made so much more dangerous compounds that he feels somewhat martyred by his experiences. There is a a bit of self pity going on with PA, but I also believe that he does not want to see this industry regulated out of existence.
09-09-2007, 12:45 PM
I'd like to see these tests posted, because I'm confused on what you're challenging in regards to his Cissus.
09-09-2007, 01:01 PM
Its such a pity egos and personalities get so tied up with the science. I guess its always the case when you really love what you do and are passionate about it. Hate + Love are flip sides of the same coin.
09-09-2007, 01:06 PM
He can review them when it's posted on the forums..ofcourse if permission is granted
09-09-2007, 01:08 PM
09-09-2007, 01:16 PM
And being in the software industry, I can understand the cultural + also language barriers in dealing with India from a business perspective. It is a completely different world there, and businesses do not work the same way. I've sometimes wanted to poke my own eardrums out trying to work out details of something in code with developers. Even just in family life (my neighborhood has a lot of indian families) they are quite a different model than the american nuclear family. Not worse, not better just different and so it takes a lot of effort to get things working with them. Once you have things up and running, its not as bad. Its the startup thats is painful.
09-09-2007, 01:17 PM
If you let Pat review your tests it does us all good. If you just claim to have them but don't let anyone see them all it does is create excess drama.
I am very interested in what your decarboxylase inhibitors are as if they are real I may need to try your powerfull.
09-09-2007, 01:18 PM
I don't mean to be the d*ck that I so totally am, but I really don't see what you're accomplishing by asking such questions in a public message board. It's none of my damn business if you get PA's permission to post results, nor is it the business of this thread topic or the other few thousand people that read this forum. This is a private matter between you and Giant Nutrition.
09-09-2007, 01:19 PM
09-09-2007, 01:22 PM
09-09-2007, 01:23 PM
09-09-2007, 01:50 PM
09-09-2007, 01:51 PM
09-09-2007, 02:36 PM
And also, what are these decarboxylase inhibitors? Names of the compounds?
09-09-2007, 02:46 PM
09-09-2007, 03:09 PM
Why is it a double edge sword? PA continously creates threads questioning other products and is cheered on for it. I just responded to his questioning of our products in a thread I did not create, and Pat Arnold entered his attacks, and you question my motives..funny.
Why let someone reveiw a Test first?
If it's fabricated, he will win in court. Since Pat Arnold has concerned himself with us than I must release my concern on his product.
I've never attacked another company nor concerned myself with others. My objective is growing USPlabs and releasing great products that work.
PowerFULL and all the USPlabs line up has graced AM for over 2 years. There is a reason why we are still around and growing fast.
09-09-2007, 03:21 PM
09-09-2007, 03:26 PM
First of all (as I've stated in another thread), if I could only use 1 supp for the rest of my life, it would be cissus. For that very reason, I'm forever grateful to USP.
So this question is merely out of sincere curiosity, but why shouldn't USP let PA have a look at the report before releasing it? Maybe just send him a copy, with the understanding that you will be releasing it publicly in 24 (or 48) hrs. Is that dumb?
09-09-2007, 03:31 PM
09-09-2007, 03:32 PM
09-09-2007, 03:36 PM
09-09-2007, 03:41 PM
09-09-2007, 03:46 PM
It's just my personal opinion, but if I ever have a concern about a company's product, I send them an email or some other form of private contact. Doing it in a public forum just causes commotion, misinformation, and just plain chaos.
USPLabs is a great company. I use their products all the time. But in my eyes the bickering and fighting just comes from these threads just doesn't make either party look good.
Do whatever you want, and the best luck with whichever path you choose.
09-09-2007, 03:46 PM
Again, this is all pure conjecture, because we really don't know what is contained in USP's "report."
09-09-2007, 04:38 PM
I'm not a chemist or a lawyer, but I agree that it would probably be in USP's best interest not to release any test results of a direct competitor without the consent of said competitor. I'd like to try and believe that the concern over others' products is for the good of the consumers, unfortunately that's not the way a business usually works. If there is a real problem with Giant's cissus, I'd like Patrick to be notified so he can attempt to rectify the problem or let it be known to his consumers. JMHO.
09-09-2007, 04:38 PM
Pat Arnold released an inhouse lab test on Cissus that can be viewed on his website.
Once our patent is issued(hopefully issued), we will deal with all the cissus issues but for now, we have to much innovation on our hands to worry about Pat Arnold.
09-09-2007, 04:42 PM
It doesn't mean anything. As I was saying on the phone, the reason I first
looked at it was because of this (and other) in vitro literature, but in
vitro data is weak and needs to be confirmed via in vivo research. That in
vitro study was the reason they decided to look in vivo, in animal models,
to see if it really did inhibit resveratrol metabolism and it didn't.
Consequently, that's why I dropped the idea of using quercetin. It's
actually mentioned in that study quote I sent you below. I'll bolded and
underline that portion:
But, in evaluating the bioavailability of resveratrol, it should
also be accounted for that in red wine, the main dietary
source of resveratrol and piceid in the western diet, numerous
polyphenols, like stilbenes, flavonoids, or anthocyanins
occur. It cannot be ruled out, that resveratrol metabolism in
vivo is inhibited by other polyphenols due to competitive
metabolization via the same phase II enzyme systems.
Although by now, after coadministration of resveratrol, catechin,
and quercetin to rats no inhibition of resveratrol metabolism
could be observed, in vitro experiments showed the
inhibition of resveratrol glucuronidation and sulfation in
liver and duodenum samples by quercetin [14, 24]. Furthermore,
it is known that epicatechin gallate and epigallocatechin
gallate are potent inhibitors of human liver sulfotransferases
09-09-2007, 04:53 PM
On a side note, is USP a public company? Because if you guys can achieve a monopoly on the cissus market (depending, of course, on the claims and breadth of your patent), I'd love to invest, lol.
09-09-2007, 05:11 PM
09-09-2007, 05:32 PM
09-09-2007, 05:54 PM
09-09-2007, 06:14 PM
09-09-2007, 06:16 PM
09-09-2007, 06:20 PM
I was thinking of trying a 7-keto product, but its slightly cost prohibitive (over $2/day) at the superdoses to really strip off the VAT as well as SAT.
I'll keep an eye out for when you are releasing it.
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