benzo / gaba question

[sdb88m361]

Are benzos GABA agonist?, or are they synthetic GABA neurotransmitters?

Ex. Does xanax stimulate the brain to release more GABA or does it just bind to the the GABA A receptor sites and stimulate them that way?

 

[romanreid]

As far as I know

The Benzo have receptor protien binding sides in the area where the GABA is normally release causing the sedative effect. I am not sure if this is right but I think this occurs in a pregaglionic synapes in the limbic system.


Now I believe that the benzos dont directly antagonize the same receptors as the neurotransmitter but works in increase the about of GABA the inhibits the appropriate neuron... its been along time since I was in school so I hope some one else can offer more

Roman

 

[LilPsychotic]

Are benzos GABA agonist?, or are they synthetic GABA neurotransmitters?

Ex. Does xanax stimulate the brain to release more GABA or does it just bind to the the GABA A receptor sites and stimulate them that way?

Binds to stereospecific benzo receptors at several sites in the CNS, resulting in enhancement of the inhibitory affect of GABA.

 

[matthew76]

And always remember

Enters breast milk/not recommended for Lactating nipples

Knowing is half the battle!

 

[sdb88m361]

So would somthing like phenibut be safer then say valium?

 

[Sampsa88]

Serax works same kind as gaba

 

[Aleksandar37]

Serax works same kind as gaba

No it doesn't. To answer the original question from 2007, since this got bumped to now, benzos are allosteric modulators. Serax and other benzos will increase the efficiency of GABA, but it's not the same thing.

 

[Sampsa88]

Yeah its not but same relax effect but serax acts faster and harder

 

[Sampsa88]

And is addictive when something stress you

 

[Jiigzz]

No it doesn't. To answer the original question from 2007, since this got bumped to now, benzos are allosteric modulators. Serax and other benzos will increase the efficiency of GABA, but it's not the same thing.

This is akin to saying (kind of but not really) that DAA is similar to testosterone as DAA may increase Test production

 

[Jiigzz]

And is addictive when something stress you

What Alex is saying is that GABA itself is responsible for its effects; Benzos don't work in the same way as GABA (as in don't produce the effects of GABA) but rather just make GABA more effective (in simple terms).

 

[Aleksandar37]

Yeah its not but same relax effect but serax acts faster and harder

If you're comparing GABA and benzos, then sure, some effects might be similar to a degree. But that's like comparing shooting at a target with a rifle and a shotgun. It all depends on what you are taking either for.

 

[Sampsa88]

Yeah. Interesting
i didnt say those are same thing and didnt talked how they do it, i did say both make you calm but Serax is more effective i think i know (former panic attack guy) I got 5 hour straight calm effect the first 2 hours are the best. Gaba gives steady effect and i only use it when i cant get sleep, better than drugs but its not even close like effect as Serax gives.

 

[Aleksandar37]

What Alex is saying is that GABA itself is responsible for its effects; Benzos don't work in the same way as GABA (as in don't produce the effects of GABA) but rather just make GABA more effective (in simple terms).

Exactly

 

[Aleksandar37]

Yeah. Interesting
i didnt say those are same thing and didnt talked how they do it, i did say both make you calm but Serax is more effective i think i know (former panic attack guy) I got 5 hour straight calm effect the first 2 hours are the best. Gaba gives steady effect and i only use it when i cant get sleep, better than drugs but its not even close like effect as Serax gives.

Definitely. Former panic attack guy here as well My panic attacks back then would have laughed at a GABA supplement.

 

[Sampsa88]

And another thing nowdays Pikatropin is my future choise simply that Pikatropin kicks in faster and harder and its gaba niacin combo. I use hybrid nutritions neuropump and after every workout the calm effect hits hard, strange the calm doesnt come when training only after as it is preworkout.

 

[Sampsa88]

Yeah... Unfortunately same thing here...

 

[Sampsa88]

Oh... I mean Hybrid Neuropump. Cool preworkout if try to find preworkout like old jack3d and craze without caffeine that i cant use anymore B)

 

[Aleksandar37]

Check out the new formulation of High Volume http://pescience.com/high-volume.html for a solid pre-workout with no stims

 

[Sampsa88]

Thanks i red the link looks interesting. Very bold claiming for they to say that it works better for the pumps than caffeine but i hope it does because the pump that comes from the brain is always more vascular than the pump effect that comes from normal arginine and so on ... Not that i say those suck but what i remember when i used old jack3d and craze

 

[Dopamean1]

They're agonists; which long term can cause down regulation. Picamilon is a good way to counter this as it causes upregulation of GabaA receptors

 

[Aleksandar37]

They're agonists; which long term can cause down regulation. Picamilon is a good way to counter this as it causes upregulation of GabaA receptors

Nope, still not agonists. Yes, down regulation is possible, but it is transient. Do you have a reference for this last statement? I ask because it makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[Dopamean1]

Nope, still not agonists. Yes, down regulation is possible, but it is transient. Do you have a reference for this last statement? I ask because it makes absolutely no sense at all.

The influence of a 15-day hypokinesia on the development of anxiety-depression state and quantitative changes in the central GABA-A macromolecular receptor complexes in the rat brain has been investigated under conditions of the despair (forced swim) test. Simultaneously, the effects of well-known nootropic drugs picamilon and piracetam on the dynamics of state parameters in the experimental animals have been evaluated. It was found that hypokinesia led to the development of anxiety and depression accompanied by reduction in the amount of active GABA-A receptors. The injections of piracetam and picamilon showed a tendency to restoration of the number of active GABA-A receptors and to normalization of the behavioral parameters.
PubMed

Granted it's discussing Piracetam as well; I ca certainly attest to a lowered benzo tolerance after use of Picamilon

 

[Aleksandar37]

author, journal, and date or a link please?

 

[test112]

author, journal, and date or a link please?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16845932/

 

[Aleksandar37]

Thank you for the link Now, any articles in English? Dopamean1, did you read this article or are you going off the abstract?

 

[test112]

I'm interested too; I also would have thought it would cause receptor downregulation, not the opposite.

 

[RipdnTxs]

I just pmd a guy about Benzos, I want to wean off Klonipin and am going to see my Doc about the best way to achieve this. Ive lost all motivation to do anything other than what I have to. I would love to hear anybody success or failure of getting off this med and how they went about getting off. Ive read alot of horror stories about weaning off. Need some AM help or suggestions on this.....

 

[Aleksandar37]

Stick with whatever schedule your physician suggests to come off of it. I came off of it with no side effects because I was carefully titrated off. Xanax was the only one that gave me issues which were tolerable and lasted about 3 weeks.

 

[RipdnTxs]

I plan on using the Docs protocol when I get in to see him, how long did it take U to get completely off and exactly how did he wean Ur dosages ???

 

[Aleksandar37]

It's been several years now, but I think he lowered my dose by like 0.25 or 0.5 mg per week until I hit zero, so it took a few weeks. Might have even been lowering it every 3-5 days. It won't take a long time to do, but it won't be a few days if you're on a high dose.

 

[Dopamean1]

Yes, unfortunately PubMed takes up part of my day every day. I've been prescribed klonopin for 4 years, have came off several times, sometimes with success, sometimes seizure. When it comes to Gaba and related compounds, I'm too familiar with the effects of each one. As far as Picamilon and gabaa receptors, aside from that article, over the last 2 weeks of talking Picamilon at the most every 2 or 3 days, I've been able to reduce my Kpin dosage dramatically. I may not be an author of a cited article, but experience goes further than research IMO.

 

[RipdnTxs]

Ive been on 1.5-2.0 mg a day for four years. I dropped to 1.5 for 10 days and then to 1.0 for the past 8 days and yesterday evening I felt like I had a mild panic attack and then pretty extreme anger. Ive had a few panic attacks that landed me in the ER before the Klonipin, but like I said earlier I,m just not motivated for much anymore other than sleep. I tried some Picamilon last week one evening and that made me feel like my mind was kinda empty, my son asked me why I was being so quite. I was just kinda there but no there if that maikes any sense. Appreciate the feedback and anymore suggestions are more than welcome on this...

 

[Aleksandar37]

I may not be an author of a cited article, but experience goes further than research IMO.

Your n=1 self-medicating experiment doesn't actually equal experience, but have fun with that.

 

[Dopamean1]

I love that term self medicating. Well I do put medication in my mouth by myself so I guess you're right. Anyone can take it for what it's worth. If it helps awesome. If not, your opinions are welcome. If you don't like what you see, wouldn't it be more productive to hit the gym rather than take it out on a keyboard? Think we can end this topic.