11-oxo vs. Lean Xtreme

[DCbuilder]

I've used Lean Xtreme w/ success in the past, both as part of the NHA stack and standalone.

In a month or two I want to start using it again, but wondered if anyone has used 11-oxo for the same purposes:

Cortisol control / losing vat (belly fat)

Lean Xtreme uses 7-OH. The dosing is 2 caps, 2-3 x per day. Using the max dose, 1 bottle (90 caps) lasts 15 days.

The dosing for 11-Oxo states: 3-6 caps per day. I know some have been using high dosing for anabolic effects (higher than 6 per day). But for my purposes, would I use 3 caps or 6 caps? If 6 caps, is it 3 in the AM and 3 before bed? If I used 3 caps 1 bottle would last 20 days. 6 caps and 1 bottle would last 10 days.

Lean Xtreme is also about $10 cheaper.

So in addition to the questions regarding 11-oxo dosing, my question is do you think 11-oxo is worth the extra price to see results, or should I simply get another bottle of Lean Xtreme?

Thanks.

 

[matthew76]

i think the answer should come from you, my friend
do you want a product that cost less? more?
do you just want fat lose? anabolic effects?

 

[DCbuilder]

I want a product that will help me to lose fat. If anabolic effects are a "package deal" with that product, that does not bother me one bit.

But I know they are 2 separate things essentially. At least that is my understanding. With 11-oxo, you can either run the product at recommended doses to achieve cortisol control/belly fat loss, or you can run the product at a much higher dose to achieve its anabolic affects.

I'm not really interested in running it at significantly higher doses (how many caps/day for a 200/lber?) due to the fact the price would be pretty high, especially since my primary goal would be for fat loss. Unless I would only need to run around 6 or 7 caps a day. But more than that and I may look into that later...

In terms of price, I really don't care about a $10 difference if the product will actually make a difference (i.e. I'll be able to notice a difference in a good way from taking 11-oxo vs. 7-OH).

But if the fact is that running 11-oxo at 3 caps/day (or even 6 caps/day) won't give me any anabolic effects nor will it improve the fat loss any more than 7-OH would, then I wouldn't pay $10 more for it.

 

[DCbuilder]

Also, feel free anyone to link me to a thread on 11-oxo dosing for anabolic effects, just to give me some background/perspective - I could not find a link while searching.

(what would you type in for 11-oxo in the search engine? I can't get it to run a search due to the few characters.)

 

[matthew76]

post on 11-OXO

:run: go and check it out

 

[DCbuilder]

Thanks. That guy did run 3/day and didn't seem that excited about it:

"my libido really diminished, but after a few days going off i was back in full force, i didnt really notice alot from 3/day lot a few pounds and little bit stronger"

I'm not sure if his diet was the same as when he started the log, but he seemed to really be bulking w/ double chipotle burritos and what not, so if he ate tons of crap and still lost a few pounds, I think that would be very solid.

I would be eating my normal diet which is sufficient for a clean/lean bulk. Lots of good healthy carbs (sticky brown rice, whole wheat breads), some unhealthy carbs on occasion (regular pastas) and lots of protein/veggies/black beans.

As one guy said, the majority of people ended up running it around 6+ pills (7 or 8 for around 600 mg/day) for the anabolic effects...

I wouldn't be near that range, at least not for my current goals.... 3-4 at most.

So again, wondering if this would be a better option than Lean Xtreme, given my goals?

 

[matthew76]

seeing how 11-oxo is pretty expensive (for 1 cycle) i personaly would go with the lean xtreme -

however, you may want to look in to x-lean (ibe) - great product

 

[DCbuilder]

seeing how 11-oxo is pretty expensive (for 1 cycle) i personaly would go with the lean xtreme -

however, you may want to look in to x-lean (ibe) - great product

Yea, I did some more research on it. Based on running 300 mg/day for 30 days of 11-oxo (4 pills), Ergo recommends the following PCT:

2 bottles 6-OXO:

days 1-10: 6 caps 6-OXO
days 11-20: 4 caps 6-OXO
days 21-30: 2 caps 6-OXO

or

2 bottles 6-OXO Extreme:

days 1-5: 10 caps 6-OXO Extreme
days 6-10: 8 caps 6-OXO Extreme
days 11-15: 6 caps 6-OXO Extreme
days 16-20: 4 caps 6-OXO Extreme
days 21-25: 2 caps 6-OXO Extreme

So to run such a cycle, you would need 2 bottles of 11-oxo ($39 each) and 2 bottles of either 6-Oxo or 6-Oxo Extreme between $30 and $40 each.

That means the cycle would be about $140-$160.

Vs. a 30 day supply of Lean Xtreme for $31.

I think for now I'll stick w/ LX, but maybe give 11-Oxo a try further down the road, depending on reviews...

 

[grila jujitsu]

11-oxo is a prohormone and is not to be confused with a cort blocker! if you take it you can get shut down also it would require a pct and im not saying an ai im talking about a serm!! i hate companys that label prohormones as other things when there not!!

 

[matthew76]

money wise - it's wise to go with lean xtreme

 

[DCbuilder]

11-oxo is a prohormone and is not to be confused with a cort blocker! if you take it you can get shut down also it would require a post cycle therapy and im not saying an ai im talking about a serm!! i hate companys that label prohormones as other things when there not!!

So are you saying 6-oxo/extreme are not sufficient? What would you suggest - nolva?

 

[TTewell]

is 7-OH a prohormone? I know it's marketed for PCT but I was under the impression it was a PH.

 

[Jstrong20]

I get great results of lx and would stick with it. If you wanted to look into a ph I wouldn't go with 11oxo because it can't be worth the price. If you want to go the ph route you may want to look into furaz type products. I know one guy on here has a log on it and thinks it great. He is leaning out fast without muscle loss. You could probably run lx and furaza combined and it would be cheaper than 11oxo at an effective dose.

 

[heebs10]

11-oxo is a prohormone and is not to be confused with a cort blocker! if you take it you can get shut down also it would require a post cycle therapy and im not saying an ai im talking about a serm!! i hate companys that label prohormones as other things when there not!!

:goodpost: this is somewhat confusing in the way they advertise 11oxo, its very misleading.

 

[matthew76]

:goodpost: this is somewhat confusing in the way they advertise 11oxo, its very misleading.

ding ding ding - we have a winner

i agree 110%

for the price, and it being soooo underdosed, i would not THINK of buying it

 

[bigschmidt821]

it does have a cortisol blocking effect, however it is suppresive not horribly suppresive but it is still suppresive. that is what i dont like about ergo pharm marketing it, PA made a comment making fun of AX saying that he doubted they knew of its cortisol blocking effects. but yet he doesnt seem to make it clear its anabolic effects and that its suppresive. i understand he cant say its anabolic cuz he isnt allowed to do so, which means he shouldnt market it at all

 

[matthew76]

i like this thread... great views!

yeah, PA does not mention 11-OXO having anabolic effects - atleast companys like AX will step up to the plate - kinda like PA with Bonds

 

[ManInTheBox]

from the results i have seen from my clients at the place i work at (nutrition @ work, small nutrition store in champaign, il) i have seen people cut fat, and build muscle, rapidly. 11 oxo is the #1 prohormone out right now, in my opinion.

 

[matthew76]

{opinion} - that is all

epi is the hottest PH right now

 

[bigschmidt821]

epi is the hottest by far, 3AD is a good stack with it i loved it.

 

[TTewell]

is 7-OH a prohormone? I know it's marketed for post cycle therapy but I was under the impression it was a PH.

I was thinking of 3-OHAT, i believe.

 

[grila jujitsu]

oof

So are you saying 6-oxo/extreme are not sufficient? What would you suggest - nolva?

exactly ! i would say go with nolva or better yet torem!!

 

[grila jujitsu]

thanks

:goodpost: this is somewhat confusing in the way they advertise 11oxo, its very misleading.

thank you !

 

[SlowNSteady]

matthew76...how would you compare Lean Xtreme to X-Lean...im want to buy either one but im not sure which one. You said X-lean was a great product can you elaborate? Like have you or know someone who has taken it? Thanks

 

[fatburner2007]

Good questions...kind of curious myself

matthew76...how would you compare Lean Xtreme to X-Lean...im want to buy either one but im not sure which one. You said X-lean was a great product can you elaborate? Like have you or know someone who has taken it? Thanks

 

[machine528]

I am on 11-oxo right now and am definatly noticing a difference going into my 10th day. My libido and drive has not dropped at all it has actually gone through the roof. My has had a very nice jump. I am starting to notice i am looking alot leaner. I am running it at 6 pills a day for the first week 7 pills a day for the 2nd week, 8 pills a day for the 3rd and 4th week and based on how i feel and my results i may do a 5th week. The stack is definatly expensive however i will prolly respond alot better than most because i have never used hardcore PH's like superdrol, Pheraplex, M1t or even 1 AD.

 

[matthew76]

sure, i can elaborate - i recently purchased x-lean (with x-dream/force)

i have taking the lean for around 4 days now and have actually felt better on it than i did while taking lean xtreme - joints feel good, i feel good in general

hope this helps

 

[Patrick Arnold]

11-oxo is a prohormone and is not to be confused with a cort blocker! if you take it you can get shut down also it would require a post cycle therapy and im not saying an ai im talking about a serm!! i hate companys that label prohormones as other things when there not!!

11-oxo is a cortisol blocker and an extremely effective one

http://www.ergopharm.net/products_11oxo_article.php

it is also a prohormone

we market ours as a cortisol because the recommended dosage is one which is effective for cortisol yet underdoses for prohormone effects

we don't hide the fact that it is an androgenic precursor either, as you can see at the end of the article

 

[Patrick Arnold]

it does have a cortisol blocking effect, however it is suppresive not horribly suppresive but it is still suppresive. that is what i dont like about ergo pharm marketing it, PA made a comment making fun of AX saying that he doubted they knew of its cortisol blocking effects. but yet he doesnt seem to make it clear its anabolic effects and that its suppresive. i understand he cant say its anabolic cuz he isnt allowed to do so, which means he shouldnt market it at all

shmitty read the end of the article i just posted the link to

that article has been on our site for months

 

[bigschmidt821]

i did just read it, so i apoligize for my previous statement. my question is tho, how is it ok for you to sell it? i know its natural that is very clear to me but its anabolic and i thought you werent allowed to sell any thing anabolic in this particular nature (a shame really) also all this aside good job with that interview it was very straightforward. you looked a lil nervous tho

 

[matthew76]

good article - guess i should FULLY read things before making statements

i'm curious about 6-OXO... i need a good anti-e that wont Fkuc up my joints

 

[SlowNSteady]

Matthew, how was the lean extreme when you took it? You said your cutting and doing a clean bulk yes? Did you use it during PCT or just alone or stacked with other supps? I start my PCT Aug. 10th and I'm looking to keep my gains, lose some fat, and a cortisol blocker. Lean Xtreme has been around for a bit and X-Lean is fairly new so idk what to go with. Also, hows retain 2?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

i i know its natural that is very clear to me but its anabolic and i thought you werent allowed to sell any thing anabolic in this particular nature (a shame really)

nothing restricts anything involving my business

 

[bigschmidt821]

nothing restricts anything involving my business

so you're business isnt restricted? then is there anything else that u plan on releasing in the future that could rival the old 1AD?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

so you're business isnt restricted? then is there anything else that u plan on releasing in the future that could rival the old 1AD?

thats a tall order

i am not formally restricted but i certainly am subject to greater scrutiny than most because of my balco involvement

 

[bigschmidt821]

thats a tall order

i am not formally restricted but i certainly am subject to greater scrutiny than most because of my balco involvement

thats a shame really, i still dont understand it bein illegal its not on the bann list

 

[BigAsTheSky]

thats a shame really, i still dont understand it bein illegal its not on the bann list

But at one time not so long ago THG was not on the banned list either.:frustrate

 

[bigschmidt821]

thats what i was reffering to. how can they say it was illegal to Patrick it wasnt banned.

 

[BigAsTheSky]

thats what i was reffering to. how can they say it was illegal to Patrick it wasnt banned.

See, there you go trying to apply logic and reason to a witch hunt. :nono:

 

[raptor2003]

so you're business isnt restricted? then is there anything else that u plan on releasing in the future that could rival the old 1AD?

oohhhhh 1-AD

:bruce2: just oohhhhhh

 

[Nemesis]

is 7-OH a prohormone? I know it's marketed for post cycle therapy but I was under the impression it was a PH.

I would also like an answer if possible to this, anyone?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

But at one time not so long ago THG was not on the banned list either.:frustrate

i pled guilty to conspiracy to distribute anabolic steroids even though THG was not scheduled when i sold it

that should scare people because even though i technically was not selling an anabolic steroid (under the definition of the law) the feds didn't care. they said "either plea guilty to this or suffer the wrath of the federal prosecutorial system"

so anyone selling a steroid now that they think is not controlled can easily be subject to the same kind of arbitrary justice.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

See, there you go trying to apply logic and reason to a witch hunt. :nono:

bingo

 

[matthew76]

in the past year or so, the market has has a substantial turn-around from the "post ban" era - i mean products like 11-oxo / epi are better products in "my" opinion than say harsh orals like m1t - if 11-oxo was sold under the "label" of being a PH, then don't you think the feds (coughdickscough) would be all over it knowing PA had anything to do with it - i mean dude, i :clap2: people like PA for forging ahead and still bringing the consumer great products (even if they are pricey)

rant over

 

[bigschmidt821]

i pled guilty to conspiracy to distribute anabolic steroids even though THG was not scheduled when i sold it

that should scare people because even though i technically was not selling an anabolic steroid (under the definition of the law) the feds didn't care. they said "either plea guilty to this or suffer the wrath of the federal prosecutorial system"

so anyone selling a steroid now that they think is not controlled can easily be subject to the same kind of arbitrary justice.

thats horrible. what is the point of the law and banning substances if it doesnt even matter?! its just wrong

 

[BigAsTheSky]

thats horrible. what is the point of the law and banning substances if it doesnt even matter?! its just wrong

There's nothing wrong with the law, laws can be changed. What is the most dangerous is a judge or legislator who has a hard-on for something they know nothing about. I have dealt with politicians (at the local and state level) who get their minds set on something with absolutely no knowledge of what they are persuing -- oftentimes they are totally screwed in the head (for a lack of a better term) just because it's what they want. When it becomes a hot-button issue the tunnel vision becomes magnified infinitely.

Had public opinion towards steroids in sports not been so negative (driven mostly by ignorance) Patrick would have perhaps been able to successfully argue his case. However, with so many of the wrong people against him (judges, prosecutors, politicians and most importantly, people who would have been on a jury) the technicality of something as small as, "he did nothing illegal", was dead before it even hit the floor.

It's all politics and it doesn't matter what the truth or the law is. All that is needed is someone in the right position, with power to get it in their heads they want to make a spectical or make someone else look bad. Just look at what happens in Washington every day -- all it takes is someone to point the finger and guilt is immediately assumed regardless whether anything wrong was done -- and the ignorant MTV, CNN, Blogging masses eat it hook, line and sinker.

 

[Jstrong20]

epi is the hottest by far, 3AD is a good stack with it i loved it.

Do you have any other ph or steroid experience to compare it to? I thought about epi type products but I'm not sure yet as some seem to get so so results. The 3ad/epi stack does sound like it would be a good one though. Do you feel it would compare to superdrol or m1t as far as strenght gains?

 

[bigschmidt821]

my experiance goes as, halodrol, testraflex, winstrol anavar, havoc, epi, superdrol, prostanazol. i say epi and 3AD rivals superdrol easily and is a great cutting idea as well

 

[Jstrong20]

Sounds worth trying. I'll probably try it out this winter. I'm actually surprised more aren't running that stack. I guess most are waiting on 3ad instead of using 11 oxo.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I guess most are waiting on 3ad instead of using 11 oxo.

day be fools