what do you think of this stack?

[grila jujitsu]

ok so im trying to put a supp stack together thats going to ****en beat the **** out of any other supp stack!
ok so make any changes, but please tell me why you would or wouldnt have a supp.

ok hear is the list:
Xfactor
kre alkalyn
PowerFULL
cordygen5
Ebol
anagen

 

[jmh80]

I'd probably cut that in half, honestly.

P'full is some good sheet man.

I'd use it with the Kre-alk, and maybe the Cordygen (have not used either of those - but seems like they would stack well with PF).

 

[thesinner]

IMO, there's really no benefit in creating 'kitchen sink stacks'

Not only will you have no idea what part of the stack is giving results, but the amount of mass you put on is best limited by how much you eat.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/48829-thesinners-1st-law.html

 

[grila jujitsu]

fo sho. would u hink adding maybe xf or ebol would be chill?

 

[thesinner]

Yeah, I think XF+Ebol might be a fun stack to run. But there's no point in going overboard and running all those fellas at once. Perhaps when you're done with the above stack, you could try implementing other supps during your time off.

 

[grila jujitsu]

thanks

IMO, there's really no benefit in creating 'kitchen sink stacks'

Not only will you have no idea what part of the stack is giving results, but the amount of mass you put on is best limited by how much you eat.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/48829-thesinners-1st-law.html

thanks man yet again you provided me with huge info!!!

 

[bitterplacebo]

Xfactor
kre alkalyn
PowerFULL
cordygen5
Ebol
anagen

This could just be me and my extremely tight budget right now, but the only thing I would be willing to invest in out of that would be the creatine.

X-Factor seems like a good idea. Just I think I could probably get the same benefits of AA if I implement a specific diet high in whole eggs and red meat. I'm thinking about trying this as soon as I get some things sorted out. It would be a cyclical diet alternating every few weeks between AA/hypertrophy specific bulking and then a recomp/cut where I switch in more omega fatty acids. Always good if it's possible to get the same benefits of a supplement through diet alone.

PowerFULL would also be out of the question for me, regardless of money issues. I don't like the fact that it messes with your dopamine levels. Increasing the levels of this neurotransmitter can cause some side effects indistinguishable from schizophrenic symptoms. It also worsens symptoms in current schizophrenic patients.

Cordygen5 sounds interesting, and not too expensive. Can anyone speak about their personal experience with it? Might have to put it on my wish list.

I also have remained skeptical of the ecdysterone products, but again I'd be interested to hear in personal experiences.

 

[ahs4n]

Wouldn't you have to eat a ****load more eggs and readmeat? 1000 mg of AA is pretty hard to get in one day.

 

[bitterplacebo]

Wouldn't you have to eat a ****load more eggs and readmeat? 1000 mg of AA is pretty hard to get in one day.

Seems possible to me. If you go to http://riley.nal.usda.gov/NDL/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl you can view the nutritional data for any food in their data base. AA is listed under the fatty acid components as '20:4' and a single large whole egg has 71mg of it. It's not all that many eggs to get to 1000mg. I've even just read that the AA content of meats is often under reported.

I haven't done the math, but an egg or two every meal combined with some red meat might end up being cheaper than an AA supplement. More practical also, because you get fat and protein calories towards your diet. Two birds, so long as you don't mind cholesterol.

 

[Frequency]

Seems possible to me. If you go to http://riley.nal.usda.gov/NDL/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl you can view the nutritional data for any food in their data base. AA is listed under the fatty acid components as '20:4' and a single large whole egg has 71mg of it. It's not all that many eggs to get to 1000mg. I've even just read that the AA content of meats is often under reported.

I haven't done the math, but an egg or two every meal combined with some red meat might end up being cheaper than an AA supplement. More practical also, because you get fat and protein calories towards your diet. Two birds, so long as you don't mind cholesterol.

Im pretty sure 71mgs is pre cooked and dozen eggs a day alone is far from cheap. Its defintely cheaper to go the pill route seeing as you would only be paying 1.80 for a gram. It would probably cost twice as much for the eggs alone

 

[jmh80]

PowerFULL would also be out of the question for me, regardless of money issues. I don't like the fact that it messes with your dopamine levels. Increasing the levels of this neurotransmitter can cause some side effects indistinguishable from schizophrenic symptoms. It also worsens symptoms in current schizophrenic patients.

I'm willing to bet I've taken more P'full than anyone outside of the USP staff.

I have had no issues of schizophrenia.
I'm a chemical engineer - my brain operates at a high level. I haven't had any issues since taking P'full.

Ergo - overblown.

 

[bitterplacebo]

I'm willing to bet I've taken more P'full than anyone outside of the USP staff.

I have had no issues of schizophrenia.
I'm a chemical engineer - my brain operates at a high level. I haven't had any issues since taking P'full.

Ergo - overblown.

Not trying to create a problem where there's not, just trying to say be careful if you're messing with certain neurotransmitters. Any problems that arise wouldn't be permanent, but anyone with psychiatric history should think twice. I know there's supplement warnings, but amidst the other awesome claims that are made, people might not take them seriously.

So I'm just offering a second warning because I'd like to see those supplement warnings labels made a little bit more clearer and imperative. I only know from my own experience that I decided (without doctor consultation) to take supplements that manipulated dopamine and it wasn't the healthiest choice. My cognitive abilities didn't seem impaired (just like you say you aren't affected), but the symptoms were enhanced in the positive/negative symptoms. Some might be well-adjusted enough to tolerate a few instabilities caused by supplements, but some are not. It probably wouldn't be serious or critical problems, but an unstable mind is definitely an unpleasant experience. And it would hopefully be avoidable if people are more aware.

 

[Guest]

PowerFULL would also be out of the question for me, regardless of money issues. I don't like the fact that it messes with your dopamine levels. Increasing the levels of this neurotransmitter can cause some side effects indistinguishable from schizophrenic symptoms. It also worsens symptoms in current schizophrenic patients.

There is 0 evidence that naturally increasing dopamine levels in healthy humans is unhealthy unless you have parkinsons(and thats still a debate). Remember we are increasing dopamine by a pre cursor and the human body has enzymes that prevent the human body from screwing itself. You can flood the brain with dopamine unless you are on a dopamine iv.

 

[bitterplacebo]

There is 0 evidence that naturally increasing dopamine levels in healthy humans is unhealthy unless you have parkinsons(and thats still a debate). Remember we are increasing dopamine by a pre cursor and the human body has enzymes that prevent the human body from screwing itself. You can flood the brain with dopamine unless you are on a dopamine iv.

Yes, I wasn't try to scare healthy people away. What I said was my own personal stance based on a few evidence of l-dopa in schizophrenics combined with my own personal experiences. Some people aren't as balanced as others with respect to neurotransmitters, myself included in that group. I'm saying that because of this I would not include PowerFULL in my own supplement stack. I hope everyone understood that this is a personal concern of mine, and one that I'm not willing to take risks about. It's not something I'm always comfortable with going into details about, unless I think it's going to help others somehow, but I apologize for not elaborating more in that first post.

 

[jmh80]

Good post Bitter. I think that's all I was looking for. Your original post was quite vague.

 

[ncangey0513]

Cordygen5 sounds interesting, and not too expensive. Can anyone speak about their personal experience with it? Might have to put it on my wish list.

****s banging (no shameless plug.) On the real though, if you want me to pull up some past logs/reviews on C5 for you I'd be more than happy to.

 

[grila jujitsu]

jea my ninja

****s banging (no shameless plug.) On the real though, if you want me to pull up some past logs/reviews on C5 for you I'd be more than happy to.

hell yea ! please do!

 

[chaos92287]

ya cordygen5 is some good sh*t. you wont notice the effects early on but stay on it for a couple weeks and you'll see the results. and millenium sport is a solid company, run by some really good guys

 

[grila jujitsu]

what do you think op anabolic pump, ebol and x factor. would that be chill do you think i would be over doing it?

 

[Rodja]

what do you think op anabolic pump, ebol and x factor. would that be chill do you think i would be over doing it?

Sounds like a stack that I would enjoy running. What doses are you planning on running?

 

[grila jujitsu]

jea

Sounds like a stack that I would enjoy running. What doses are you planning on running?

i was thinking the max dosage on the bottle. what do you think?

 

[ItsHectic]

kre-alkalyn is like sooooo last week. CM is back in now... low dose.

 

[pistonpump]

if you use ebol i would say use anagen with, and ideally id like to see a ebol, anagen, pro-anabol stack! Kinda harnessing the different forms of ecdy that each product has, maybe Rodja would be the best candidate haha. What you think Rodja?

I agree with jmh alot of supps in the original post. You could run that but i would think you would be wasting money it would be better to take two and then go into two or three after that stack and so on. So many in so little time wont yield the results you would get if you ran them back to back imo. THis also lets you see how each of them effect you.


What is the one supplement from that list that you really really would like to try over the others? Maybe i can suggest what i think would go good with that.

 

[Rodja]

if you use ebol i would say use anagen with, and ideally id like to see a ebol, anagen, pro-anabol stack! Kinda harnessing the different forms of ecdy that each product has, maybe Rodja would be the best candidate haha. What you think Rodja?

I agree with jmh alot of supps in the original post. You could run that but i would think you would be wasting money it would be better to take two and then go into two or three after that stack and so on. So many in so little time wont yield the results you would get if you ran them back to back imo. THis also lets you see how each of them effect you.


What is the one supplement from that list that you really really would like to try over the others? Maybe i can suggest what i think would go good with that.

I would really like to try PA stacked with either DCP or Burn3d and XF. That would probably be the ultimate recomp stack.

 

[grila jujitsu]

yes or no

kre-alkalyn is like sooooo last week. CM is back in now... low dose.

CM? creatine mono?

 

[grila jujitsu]

if you use ebol i would say use anagen with, and ideally id like to see a ebol, anagen, pro-anabol stack! Kinda harnessing the different forms of ecdy that each product has, maybe Rodja would be the best candidate haha. What you think Rodja?

I agree with jmh alot of supps in the original post. You could run that but i would think you would be wasting money it would be better to take two and then go into two or three after that stack and so on. So many in so little time wont yield the results you would get if you ran them back to back imo. THis also lets you see how each of them effect you.


What is the one supplement from that list that you really really would like to try over the others? Maybe i can suggest what i think would go good with that.

either xfactor or ebol?

 

[ItsHectic]

CM? creatine mono?

Yep, the classic.

 

[grila jujitsu]

actually i was thinking maybe i would run the ebol, anagen and pro-anabal. :food:

 

[grila jujitsu]

here are the 3 stacks i am going to take:1. anagen, pro-anabol and ebol.
2. xfactor, glucophase XR and anabolic pump.
3. PowerFULL, KreAlkaliyn 1500 and codygen5.

i think these 3 stacks are ****en crazy brah? what ya think ?

 

[bitterplacebo]

here are the 3 stacks i am going to take:1. anagen, pro-anabol and ebol.
2. xfactor, glucophase XR and anabolic pump.
3. PowerFULL, KreAlkaliyn 1500 and codygen5.

i think these 3 stacks are ****en crazy brah? what ya think ?

They will be run consecutively, not concurrently, right? If you run each stack in that order, it seems well planned. Except possibly putting xfactor with the first stack would be one suggestion. I never dabbled into the ecdysteroid supplements before, so I'm not sure about #1. Does that seem like too much to put together?

The anabolic pump and cordygen5 seem like fine supplements and I'll probably be trying them also in a week or two.

 

[grila jujitsu]

good stuff

They will be run consecutively, not concurrently, right? If you run each stack in that order, it seems well planned. Except possibly putting xfactor with the first stack would be one suggestion. I never dabbled into the ecdysteroid supplements before, so I'm not sure about #1. Does that seem like too much to put together?

The anabolic pump and cordygen5 seem like fine supplements and I'll probably be trying them also in a week or two.

jea thats how i plan to run them. run stack 1 then after done run stack 2 then run stack 3. why do you think that i should put the xf with stack 1? i will log all of it. anyone else have any opinions on it?

 

[bitterplacebo]

jea thats how i plan to run them. run stack 1 then after done run stack 2 then run stack 3. why do you think that i should put the xf with stack 1? i will log all of it. anyone else have any opinions on it?

I thought stack #1 looked like the one with the most anabolic potential, and X-factor would also increase growth potential, but through a different means. I was just thinking it might amplify muscular hypertrophy. However, it could be the case that it won't make much difference because you're already taking so much in stack #1 to enhance your anabolism. It might be safer to leave in stack #2, so that your anabolic potential is still increased some after coming off all the ecdy.

The way you had looks good. It's like stack #1 is your pure anabolic and strength, stack #2 would then help with recomposition while still maintaining some anabolic growth, then stack #3 would be like a natural recovery, growth, and maintenance.

 

[pistonpump]

here are the 3 stacks i am going to take:1. anagen, pro-anabol and ebol.
2. xfactor, glucophase XR and anabolic pump.
3. PowerFULL, KreAlkaliyn 1500 and codygen5.

i think these 3 stacks are ****en crazy brah? what ya think ?

i would split the glucophase and AP so they are in different stacks. Im not sure but dont they kind of do the same thing? I dont think stacking them would be that much of a benefiet :shrug:
Another thing dont do stack 1 first imo.

 

[grila jujitsu]

ok

i would split the glucophase and AP so they are in different stacks. Im not sure but dont they kind of do the same thing? I dont think stacking them would be that much of a benefiet :shrug:
Another thing dont do stack 1 first imo.

how do you think i should order them ? um i dont be leave that glucophase and ap do the same thing. i thought it was xfactor and glucophase that are similar but not by there chemical comp.

 

[grila jujitsu]

I thought stack #1 looked like the one with the most anabolic potential, and X-factor would also increase growth potential, but through a different means. I was just thinking it might amplify muscular hypertrophy. However, it could be the case that it won't make much difference because you're already taking so much in stack #1 to enhance your anabolism. It might be safer to leave in stack #2, so that your anabolic potential is still increased some after coming off all the ecdy.

The way you had looks good. It's like stack #1 is your pure anabolic and strength, stack #2 would then help with recomposition while still maintaining some anabolic growth, then stack #3 would be like a natural recovery, growth, and maintenance.

for sure ! thanks for the info. i think this is how im going to keep it.

 

[thesinner]

here are the 3 stacks i am going to take:1. anagen, pro-anabol and ebol.
2. xfactor, glucophase XR and anabolic pump.
3. PowerFULL, KreAlkaliyn 1500 and codygen5.

i think these 3 stacks are ****en crazy brah? what ya think ?

Not really liking stack option #1: this is 3 ecdysteroidal products being put together. Not really going to produce a synergistic effect. Would just be simpler (IMO) to just take one product, but at a higher dose.

Stack 2 is ok. I would prob drop the glucophase XR. Anabolic pump is some potent sh*t. Piling on another potent insulin mimmicker is gonna make you feel like crap, and it probably wouldn't make you gain anything from it.

Stack 3 is, well I have no qualms with stack 3. Just watch out with PowerFULL. JMH80 and a few other reputable names on this board swear by the stuff as a potent workout enhancer/musclebuilder. I swear by the stuff as a potent sedative (actually had to stop taking at recommended dosages because it made me sleep too much).


Well, that's my 2 cents on the whole thing. Let us know what you decide to do, and how it all turns out.

 

[jmh80]

Not really liking stack option #1: this is 3 ecdysteroidal products being put together. Not really going to produce a synergistic effect. Would just be simpler (IMO) to just take one product, but at a higher dose.

Stack 2 is ok. I would prob drop the glucophase XR. Anabolic pump is some potent sh*t. Piling on another potent insulin mimmicker is gonna make you feel like crap, and it probably wouldn't make you gain anything from it.

Stack 3 is, well I have no qualms with stack 3. Just watch out with PowerFULL. JMH80 and a few other reputable names on this board swear by the stuff as a potent workout enhancer/musclebuilder. I swear by the stuff as a potent sedative (actually had to stop taking at recommended dosages because it made me sleep too much).


Well, that's my 2 cents on the whole thing. Let us know what you decide to do, and how it all turns out.

P'full has never really given me the super-deep sleep effects. I didn't notice lethargy.
I did notice HUGE pumps. It does interfer with strength at times. Esp. arm day. Good Lord my forearms would get pumped. Enough for me to have to lower weight lifted for bi's and tri's because I couldn't really control the weight.


Sorta agree with #1 - I think you could run Anagen with PA or Ebol though, just not all 3.


Agree with dropping GXR. Just run AP by itself.

GJ - AP and GXR are different. USP has talked about not using an R-ALA molecule (GXR) with AP for some reason. I forget exactly what - I know he just said not to use it as of now.


Do be careful with pumps on #3. Not sure how the Kre-alk or Cordegyn are with pumps - but if it gets too bad, cut the P'full dose.

 

[grila jujitsu]

thanks guy with all the help!!!!!!:thumbsup: really helped me with the decision. i will have the final idea's up soon. so whats the deal on ecdysterone's? how do they work???

 

[thesinner]

P'full has never really given me the super-deep sleep effects. I didn't notice lethargy.
I did notice HUGE pumps. It does interfer with strength at times. Esp. arm day. Good Lord my forearms would get pumped. Enough for me to have to lower weight lifted for bi's and tri's because I couldn't really control the weight.


Sorta agree with #1 - I think you could run Anagen with PA or Ebol though, just not all 3.


Agree with dropping GXR. Just run AP by itself.

GJ - AP and GXR are different. USP has talked about not using an R-ALA molecule (GXR) with AP for some reason. I forget exactly what - I know he just said not to use it as of now.


Do be careful with pumps on #3. Not sure how the Kre-alk or Cordegyn are with pumps - but if it gets too bad, cut the P'full dose.

R-ALA upregulates ALL insulin receptors; whereas, AP increases muscular insulin sensitivity, and also causes insulin resistance to adipose. Not only will ALA more than likely make you hypoglycemic, but will also start negating the tissue-specific insulin resistance of AP.


As for stack #1. I feel it would be much more effective to just pick one of those guys and run it for 90 days, instead of all 3 at once. Steady gains are much easier to handle, and will keep you motivated much more than gaining in spurts.

 

[thesinner]

P'full has never really given me the super-deep sleep effects. I didn't notice lethargy.
I did notice HUGE pumps. It does interfer with strength at times. Esp. arm day. Good Lord my forearms would get pumped. Enough for me to have to lower weight lifted for bi's and tri's because I couldn't really control the weight.


Sorta agree with #1 - I think you could run Anagen with PA or Ebol though, just not all 3.


Agree with dropping GXR. Just run AP by itself.

GJ - AP and GXR are different. USP has talked about not using an R-ALA molecule (GXR) with AP for some reason. I forget exactly what - I know he just said not to use it as of now.


Do be careful with pumps on #3. Not sure how the Kre-alk or Cordegyn are with pumps - but if it gets too bad, cut the P'full dose.

R-ALA upregulates ALL insulin receptors; whereas, AP increases muscular insulin sensitivity, and also causes insulin resistance to adipose. Not only will ALA more than likely make you hypoglycemic, but will also start negating the tissue-specific insulin resistance of AP.


As for stack #1. I feel it would be much more effective to just pick one of those guys and run it for 90 days, instead of all 3 at once. Steady gains are much easier to handle, and will keep you motivated much more than gaining in spurts.

 

[grila jujitsu]

welll now

R-ALA upregulates ALL insulin receptors; whereas, AP increases muscular insulin sensitivity, and also causes insulin resistance to adipose. Not only will ALA more than likely make you hypoglycemic, but will also start negating the tissue-specific insulin resistance of AP.


As for stack #1. I feel it would be much more effective to just pick one of those guys and run it for 90 days, instead of all 3 at once. Steady gains are much easier to handle, and will keep you motivated much more than gaining in spurts.

crazy! didnt know that!!

 

[Rodja]

How about this stack: XF, PA, and AP. You have muscle growth through different pathways and the AP and ecdy analogue will help with fat loss. Run this for 60 days (XF for 50) and you will have an awesome recomp.

 

[grila jujitsu]

sound cool ?

How about this stack: XF, PA, and AP. You have muscle growth through different pathways and the AP and ecdy analogue will help with fat loss. Run this for 60 days (XF for 50) and you will have an awesome recomp.

im thinking this is what i will do. i will run the above stack and after i run the full length of each i will do the stack 3.

at the end i think it would be accurate to say i may have gained 8-12lbs? ya think?

 

[thesinner]

How about this stack: XF, PA, and AP. You have muscle growth through different pathways and the AP and ecdy analogue will help with fat loss. Run this for 60 days (XF for 50) and you will have an awesome recomp.

Make that fatloss through 3 different pathways as well: AA is a PPAR agonist.

Let's also not forget that the anti-inflammatory side effects of AP may lower the rate of protein synthesis; however, XF and ecdy both increase protein synthesis. AA does so in through the same mechanism which AP might slower; hence, negating and supercompensating this possible lowered rate of synthesis.

*Note: I using italicized words such as may, might, and possible because I personally believe that this effect is quite negligable.

 

[grila jujitsu]

Make that fatloss through 3 different pathways as well: AA is a PPAR agonist.

Let's also not forget that the anti-inflammatory side effects of AP may lower the rate of protein synthesis; however, XF and ecdy both increase protein synthesis. AA does so in through the same mechanism which AP might slower; hence, negating and supercompensating this possible lowered rate of synthesis.

*Note: I using italicized words such as may, might, and possible because I personally believe that this effect is quite negligable.

what im thinking is that i will just try them all and log them all.

 

[grila jujitsu]

huh?

Make that fatloss through 3 different pathways as well: AA is a PPAR agonist.

Let's also not forget that the anti-inflammatory side effects of AP may lower the rate of protein synthesis; however, XF and ecdy both increase protein synthesis. AA does so in through the same mechanism which AP might slower; hence, negating and supercompensating this possible lowered rate of synthesis.

*Note: I using italicized words such as may, might, and possible because I personally believe that this effect is quite negligable.

so if i were to run xf and ap at the same time they would negate the effects of each?

 

[thesinner]

so if i were to run xf and ap at the same time they would negate the effects of each?

AP supposedly lowers protein synthesis through lowering prostraglandins which the body makes from arachidonic acid. IMO this is a miniscule effect.

Arachidonic acid (aka X-Factor) increases production prostraglandins, which in turn increases protein synthesis. I would imagine this would make up for the anti-inflammatory effects of AP, AND THEN SOME.

make sense?

 

[thesinner]

what im thinking is that i will just try them all and log them all.

That's another good option. Let us know which one you like the best.

 

[grila jujitsu]

lol

AP supposedly lowers protein synthesis through lowering prostraglandins which the body makes from arachidonic acid. IMO this is a miniscule effect.

Arachidonic acid (aka X-Factor) increases production prostraglandins, which in turn increases protein synthesis. I would imagine this would make up for the anti-inflammatory effects of AP, AND THEN SOME.

make sense?

si senor!

 

[thesinner]

thanks guy with all the help!!!!!!:thumbsup: really helped me with the decision. i will have the final idea's up soon. so whats the deal on ecdysterone's? how do they work???

Main mechanism of action with ecdysteroids is through increased rates of heptatic protein synthesis.

Though it's really a vague overview, and the article was written in Russian, here's a study comparing ecdysone to dianabol. [The action of methandrostenolone and ecdysterone ...[Farmakol Toksikol. 1988 Nov-Dec] - PubMed Result (kinda wish I could see the whole thing, so I could see if it was run smoothly. FYI, you can 'rig' studies.)