Experts, need some suggestions on this....

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    Experts, need some suggestions on this....


    Ill try and make this as short as i can. I teach high school chemistry, along with coaching football and track. I have lifted many years and i know the great importance of preworkout and PWO nutrition......and here lies the problem.....

    For our football program, we lift our kids 3 times a week using bigger,faster, stronger (dont bash here). We lift our kids on the whistle and we are rapid fire....basically organized chaos. Our kids really get after it....they love to lift...bigtime. (we won the state championship in 05) But here is the problem. As soon as we get through lifting, its 3pm, and we hit the practice field for 3 hr. practice.....we NEVER NEVER eat any PWO nutrition....

    Our kids bust their tails for an hour, and just walk out of the weightroom without eating any type of protein/carb mix. I have tried and tried to tell our head coach, etc, but just seems we arent going to do anything about it.

    Im trying to come up with something that would be very quick and easy to get protein/carbs in our kids as soon as they finish lifting......but remember, this has to be done in bulk and be able to feed over a hundred kids......

    MY THOUGHTS.....order whey protein in bulk from some supplier and a discount. Heck, maybe that would cut us a deal if we display their logo in our weightroom, etc....just thinking out loud...

    We could use our powdered gatorade as our carb source or buy bulk dextrose and use that.....

    So we could have 2 big tubs in our weightroom. When kids get through lifting, they walk by and scoop up protein from barrel #1, then scoop either gatorade powder or dextrose from barrel #2, add water and go and drink..... I think this would have a tremendous positive effect for muscle growth for our kids, saying we dont have any PWO nutrition right now...
    thats all i can think of

    anyone else with help or could give me suggestions?
    Any board sponsors wanna help me out with this....Not trying to get anything free by any mean, just want to help our fball players.

    thanks

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    Might add some bulk BCAA. I know for me any time I will be exerting extensive active output I will always carry 18-22g of BCAA's with me...in bulk form they are pretty cheap. But you are right there HAS to be some type of postworkout nutrition for it to be effective.

    You might as well not even lift before practice if there is none...that is just ignorant..and I know you know that. Might try suggesting they lift at a diff time of day than right before practice?? That would seem to me to be the best alternative. Even dextrose/whey will be gone within an hr easily, then theres 2 more hrs of catabolism. But if you HAD to do it, I would do your plan. Whey/Gatorade (powder) then say 1 hr later throw a couple scoops of BCAA in their water bottles. This would HAVE to make a huge difference in your kids performance.
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    i would talk to Dave (Customizer) from Black Star Labs about getting a price quote on bulk Cytofuse

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/black-star-labs/
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    Quote Originally Posted by bLacKjAck. View Post
    Might add some bulk BCAA. I know for me any time I will be exerting extensive active output I will always carry 18-22g of BCAA's with me...in bulk form they are pretty cheap. But you are right there HAS to be some type of postworkout nutrition for it to be effective.

    You might as well not even lift before practice if there is none...that is just ignorant..and I know you know that. Might try suggesting they lift at a diff time of day than right before practice?? That would seem to me to be the best alternative. Even dextrose/whey will be gone within an hr easily, then theres 2 more hrs of catabolism. But if you HAD to do it, I would do your plan. Whey/Gatorade (powder) then say 1 hr later throw a couple scoops of BCAA in their water bottles. This would HAVE to make a huge difference in your kids performance.

    thanks both of ya so far for the responses....

    blackjack: we can only lift during our 7th period slot (2-3pm). It is our school schedule...no way around that. But im with u....at least its better than getting nothing at all

    rushi: thanks for the suggestion.....i just contacting him...
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    You could also incorporate ground oats fairly cheaply...perhaps mixed with the dextrose. Honey..even though it's a pain to use..is another option.

    I'd be wary of getting really cheap whey..particularly with a high whey concentrate percentage as a lot of the kids might get gastro issues from this.

    Otherwise, it looks like you are on the right track.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    I'd be wary of getting really cheap whey..particularly with a high whey concentrate percentage as a lot of the kids might get gastro issues from this.
    Very good point, just wanted to re-iterate this.
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    btw, keep us updated as to how this situation turns out.
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    I've said it before..... I'd be wary of providing ANYTHING that is not mainstream (Gatorade or whole food) without doing a lot of thinking as to the consequences of 1 angry parent, who happens to talk to one anti-protein/supplement doctor.

    The parents need to be involved if anything "supplemental" is offered.
    Imagine 1 kid on roids...... and the parents blaming it on your secret drink after lifting?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanbane View Post
    I've said it before..... I'd be wary of providing ANYTHING that is not mainstream (Gatorade or whole food) without doing a lot of thinking as to the consequences of 1 angry parent, who happens to talk to one anti-protein/supplement doctor.

    The parents need to be involved if anything "supplemental" is offered.
    Imagine 1 kid on roids...... and the parents blaming it on your secret drink after lifting?
    yea, after reading and doing more thinking, i just dont know about the protein. Gastro problems, partents thinking it is "roids"...etc.....

    what would u guys suggest in terms of using mainsteam stuff (i.e gatorade, oats)....im trying to think of something whole as a protein source (maybe whole milk in the cartons?). Just thinking out loud......

    thanks for the help so far
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    Quote Originally Posted by msucurt View Post
    yea, after reading and doing more thinking, i just dont know about the protein. Gastro problems, partents thinking it is "roids"...etc.....

    what would u guys suggest in terms of using mainsteam stuff (i.e gatorade, oats)....im trying to think of something whole as a protein source (maybe whole milk in the cartons?). Just thinking out loud......

    thanks for the help so far
    Well, I think protein powder might still be a good idea.... it's just a matter of how you go about it. Suggestion: A letter provided to parents, educating them on the benefits of post workout nutrition. Explain how protein powders are a good convenient option, and then explain that the kids will have a 15 min window between lifting and practice to eat. The parents then get to decide on sending food with the kids, buying their own protein, or paying $2/week (some low nominal fee) to allow the kids to use protein available at the school.

    Just a general idea...... along the same lines, if ANY protein is provided/available for kids use, I'd suggest pre-packaged portions, or at least a store available, mainstream brand. While it's not necessarily the best, it limits your liability or risk of accusations.
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    Wow, I can't believe in this day and age a football team lifts and then has a 3 hour practice right after lifting. That is just pathetic. Nothing like making the team catabolic. Anyway, good luck with you efforts.
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    Curt,
    You can always find info from college football programs. I know for a fact the SEC school I went to had protein, creatine, and other stuff out on the training table for the athletes (not just football).

    They GAVE the players tubs of whey.

    But - you would have to involve the parents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80 View Post

    But - you would have to involve the parents.
    exactly.... world of difference between college and high school.
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    Ok, i have been in discussion about this with our football staff. If everything is cleared with administration and parents, what would u suggest the easiest, most economical solution to our problem. Once again, we are looking to give our kids something PWO immediately as they walk out the weightroom and before we go to practice at 3pm. I have a few suggestions...but would like other suggestion also...

    1. Athletes workout from 2-2:50pm. We have a tub(s) of something like cytofuse. Here lies the problem/conflict. When near 50 kids are through lifting, what is the most efficient way of getting this to our athletes in a pretty timely fashion....

    a) let them scoop out their cytofuse, and fill w/water, shake, drink.

    b) have a manager(s) set up and mix drinks for our athletes, so they can grab and go.

    c) premix the cytofuse so kids can just pour and drink.

    d) any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


    thanks
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    Looks like you're dealing with a time crunch as well: I'd at least have a manager mix the stuff up good in an Igloo cooler.... the kids could dispense it themselves into a cup on their way out. I'm guessing you guys will just have to give something a try and adjust as needed. Glad to see you're able to make some headway though! I think this could go a long way towards increased performance by all the kids.
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    What state are you in?
    Because in TX you can't do this.
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    I know that Met-rx and EAS make supplements that are approved by the NCAA and the NFL. If you use that angle, then I am sure you could convince most parents that it is ok to be using protein powders and/or MRPs.
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    Just the other day, I was making a list of contacts for my gym's owner, whose interested in getting protein and supplements privately labelled. A few of the board sponsors do this, and can prob cut you some sweet deals. Try hitting up the following email addresses:

    Carl@trueprotein.com
    Matt@allthewhey.com

    Best of Luck to ya.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texxlnghorn View Post
    What state are you in?
    Because in TX you can't do this.
    FLORIDA
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Just the other day, I was making a list of contacts for my gym's owner, whose interested in getting protein and supplements privately labelled. A few of the board sponsors do this, and can prob cut you some sweet deals. Try hitting up the following email addresses:

    Carl@trueprotein.com
    Matt@allthewhey.com

    Best of Luck to ya.


    thesinner
    THANKS so much. Sinner, i am trying to find something that is premixed with the compliant protein/carb ratio and ready to drink (i.e cytofuse, etc), where the kids just simply pour and drink after is has been mixed by coaches/managers.

    thanks
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    anyone know how i can contact black star lab for cytofuse. I have PM a rep, but havent heard back in a while. I need to make some major headway on this.

    Also, we are getting all brand new equipment in our weight room mid july.

    10 cages
    10 clean/jerk platforms
    10 inclines
    10 reg. benches.....

    etc.....and all with embroidered logos, sealed platforms with logo, etc

    should look really nice....over 50 grand invested in equipment alone
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    something very similar to this in Valdosta

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    Geez.... that's gonna be a sweet setup man!!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanbane View Post
    Geez.... that's gonna be a sweet setup man!!!!!!!!
    yea, and to think we dont supply our kids with anything for PWO....absolutely nothing,,,,and then on top of an hour of working out....we practice for 3 hours.....

    well, im gonna go to earth's end to figure something out and get something done....hell, if we have to drink little cartons of milk from the cafeteria, we will....at least its SOMETHING.

    ok, im done ranting again...
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    Most Gyms aren't that kick-ass of a set-up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Most Gyms aren't that kick-ass of a set-up.
    well, if u could see our weightroom right now, u would understand. All of our equipment is at least 20 yrs old. Just to name a few of the things that is wrong with our current weightroom...

    our incline benches are at least 45 degrees or more...so, we think we are working chest, we are really working our front delts...

    Our power racks are absolutely garbage....rusted, bent, unstable to name a few

    Our clean bars are rusted, old, screws come out, just really bad.

    Our plates are both standard and metric....can u imagine how many times our kids have put both a standard and metric plate on their bars. Now we have taught our kids not to do this, and have gotten rid of most of the metric plates, but u get the idea.

    Our platforms are falling apart....

    75% of the time we have no AC.....just 1 handing fan.

    Oh, and by the way, over the last 3 years we are 39-3....4 district champions...1 state championship....and like 57-5 last 5 years....heck, i cant even remember, but we are pretty good to say the least (not bragging by any means). Just saying we deserve this bigtime.

    :squat:
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    Quote Originally Posted by msucurt View Post
    well, if u could see our weightroom right now, u would understand. All of our equipment is at least 20 yrs old. Just to name a few of the things that is wrong with our current weightroom...

    our incline benches are at least 45 degrees or more...so, we think we are working chest, we are really working our front delts...

    Our power racks are absolutely garbage....rusted, bent, unstable to name a few

    Our clean bars are rusted, old, screws come out, just really bad.

    Our plates are both standard and metric....can u imagine how many times our kids have put both a standard and metric plate on their bars. Now we have taught our kids not to do this, and have gotten rid of most of the metric plates, but u get the idea.

    Our platforms are falling apart....

    75% of the time we have no AC.....just 1 handing fan.

    Oh, and by the way, over the last 3 years we are 39-3....4 district champions...1 state championship....and like 57-5 last 5 years....heck, i cant even remember, but we are pretty good to say the least (not bragging by any means). Just saying we deserve this bigtime.

    :squat:

    Yeah, my highschool's gym went through a similar transformation between my freshman and sophomore year (we didn't even have power racks pre-transformation).
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    IMO with such little time

    BCAA's and carbs are the best.

    god I cant imagine downing a protein shake in 100 degree heat then going to practive. even nectar is thin and juicy and id gag

    bcaa's and gatorade are it IMO


    i mean there are already agatorade containers start dumping bcaa's into it sure it will be bitter but **** when ur thirsty hot and tired. piss would taste good

    just a suggestion

    i think bcaa's and juice will be the best bet. and have the kids eat something while they train a bannana or soemthing or drink a shake something like homemade xtend during thier workout


    **** 3 hr practices wow lol everyday?
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    There is a fix to this problem


    It's called early morning workouts. I played football and rowed crew at the hs & college levels. The crew workouts were 10xtimes that of the football. In crew we had two/day workouts 6 months out of the year. You just need to get their asses in the gym at 0600. I remember putting the boat in the water 0545 and freezing my ass off. The team had meetings to make sure everyone had a ride, a lot of us road in the back of the coaches pickup. Of course the workouts are voluntary/mandatory, that way you don't get jammed. Make arrangements with the cafeteria to have a high protein post meal ready for breakfast.
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    that must have been the old days lol

    i remmeber riding in teh back of trucks today everyone is a ***** and parents are babies lol


    i give u props thread starter, gettin involved in a overlooked aspect of highschool sports. i wish my coaches did the same thing
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