[Timme]

Which do you prefer and why?

[ReaperX]

I speculate to a certain degree how much amino acids you really need in general. I don't go out of my way though to supplement with amino acids in general outside of what Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard provides me.

[Timme]

Originally Posted by ReaperX

I speculate to a certain degree how much amino acids you really need in general. I don't go out of my way though to supplement with amino acids in general outside of what Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard provides me.

Maybe you should?

Although many studies have shown that amino acid ingestion acutely stimulates protein anabolism, only few studies have investigated whether long-term supplementation promotes changes in body composition.

We therefore tested the hypothesis that l-leucine (LEU) and l-phenylalanine (PHE) supplementation might have a positive impact on the body composition of rats submitted to intermittent periods of food restriction and refeeding (weight cycling or WC).

The WC protocol comprised three cycles, each consisting of 1 week of 50% food restriction followed by 2 weeks of ad libitum ingestion. The groups submitted to WC ingested the control diet (WC-CON) or the diet supplemented with LEU+PHE (WC-AA). A pair-fed group receiving the control diet (PF-CON) was used as a reference for the effects of WC.

Although food intake was the same in all groups, higher body weight and energy efficiency were observed in the WC-AA group compared to the PF-CON and WC-CON groups although not significantly in relation to the latter. These results were the consequence of a significant increase of lean body mass and body protein content in the WC-AA group compared to the PF-CON and WC-CON groups.

The WC-CON and WC-AA groups presented 36.1% and 18.9% more body fat, respectively, than the PF-CON group but this difference was not significant.

Neither fasting insulin nor glucose concentration nor postprandial insulin secretion was significantly affected by the supplemented diet.

In conclusion, supplementation with LEU+PHE improved the body composition profile of rats submitted to WC, mainly by increasing lean body mass and body protein content.

Life Sci. 2007 Apr 24; Effects of leucine and phenylalanine supplementation during intermittent periods of food restriction and refeeding in adult rats.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science.../sdarticle.pdf

[Timme]

Sorry if I sounded cocky, I didn't mean that.

[Distilled Water]

Originally Posted by ReaperX

I speculate to a certain degree how much amino acids you really need in general. I don't go out of my way though to supplement with amino acids in general outside of what Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard provides me.

I was on the same boat as you for a while, maybe 2 years. In the past 2 though i have started using BCAA and I can definatley tell a diff. with recovery. When cutting I seem to keep more muscle and strength and when bulking I tend to get stronger. Just some thought. I only use BCAA's around workout time. Usually ~15gr during has worked best for me. But i respect your opinion

I perfer BCAA's nly because they are the only type i have used. I tried the old Purple wrath and just couldnt stomach the taste and it didnt seem to be helping out much. Leucine has really caught my attention and I may be using it down the road

[Timme]

Originally Posted by Distilled Water

I was on the same boat as you for a while, maybe 2 years. In the past 2 though i have started using BCAA and I can definatley tell a diff. with recovery. When cutting I seem to keep more muscle and strength and when bulking I tend to get stronger. Just some thought. I only use BCAA's around workout time. Usually ~15gr during has worked best for me. But i respect your opinion

I perfer BCAA's nly because they are the only type i have used. I tried the old Purple wrath and just couldnt stomach the taste and it didnt seem to be helping out much. Leucine has really caught my attention and I may be using it down the road

But why not all of the EAA'S?

[ReaperX]

Let me clarify what I had meant by my previous post. I did use amino acid specific supplements, and for a long time I took this high dosage amino acid blend that they have been mixing in cancer patients at our hospital to drink. It worked ok for me for awhile, but I would never pay the price tag that the hospital pays for them. The Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard protein has a decent amount of BCAAs and amino acids per scoop, and I average about 5 shakes a day.

Purple Wraath in my opinion is unnecessary, but of course like I said, that is just my opinion.

[hardestgainer]

Originally Posted by Distilled Water

I was on the same boat as you for a while, maybe 2 years. In the past 2 though i have started using BCAA and I can definatley tell a diff. with recovery. When cutting I seem to keep more muscle and strength and when bulking I tend to get stronger. Just some thought. I only use BCAA's around workout time. Usually ~15gr during has worked best for me. But i respect your opinion

I perfer BCAA's nly because they are the only type i have used. I tried the old Purple wrath and just couldnt stomach the taste and it didnt seem to be helping out much. Leucine has really caught my attention and I may be using it down the road

Definantly notice a diff on bcaas for sure. Just started using them within the last 6 months. awesome for cutting and bulking.

[redhawk76]

Originally Posted by ReaperX

Let me clarify what I had meant by my previous post. I did use amino acid specific supplements, and for a long time I took this high dosage amino acid blend that they have been mixing in cancer patients at our hospital to drink. It worked ok for me for awhile, but I would never pay the price tag that the hospital pays for them. The Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard protein has a decent amount of BCAAs and amino acids per scoop, and I average about 5 shakes a day.

Purple Wraath in my opinion is unnecessary, but of course like I said, that is just my opinion.

There are also bcaa's in all complete forms of protein, like your chicken.

FREE FORM amino acids have benefits over whey protein shakes

[blackjackcat]

Bingo! You are spot on with this comment.

Originally Posted by redhawk76

There are also bcaa's in all complete forms of protein, like your chicken.

FREE FORM amino acids have benefits over whey protein shakes

[MentalTwitch]

BCAAs FTW!

[Distilled Water]

Originally Posted by Timme

But why not all of the EAA'S?

Well because BCAA are the 1st thing I started using and Im getting great results and i havent seen anyone who's using EAA's and seeing better results, catch my drift?

Leucine though......looks nice and its cheap. I may try 10gr postworkout next time I'm cutting

[Timme]

Originally Posted by Distilled Water

Well because BCAA are the 1st thing I started using and Im getting great results and i havent seen anyone who's using EAA's and seeing better results, catch my drift?

Leucine though......looks nice and its cheap. I may try 10gr postworkout next time I'm cutting

Yes, i catch your drift

[ReaperX]

Ok there are already 4 things wrong with this study that was presented to me (I'm going off of what was copy and pasted b/c the link does not work):

1. The number of rats total was never stated. They could have used 5,10, or 100. There are just statistics thrown around to quantify gains. (MuscleTech does this shady angle all too well)

2. This piggybacks the first statement: What do they mean the results conclude ? Does 99% mean it concluded or just 51% ? I'm assuming they used the 'majority rule' which percentages are not stated (and neither were the # of rats used).

3. I don't know if you caught the 'ad libitum' statement that was there, but basically what the study is summing up is: 'rats were fed 50% of what they usually eat for one week, the the other 2 they were allowed to eat how ever much they wanted to.' The amount of intake should have been controlled the whole time.

4. Three weeks is not long enough to quantify the statement they are making.



So there you go.

[Rodja]

Originally Posted by ReaperX

Ok there are already 4 things wrong with this study that was presented to me (I'm going off of what was copy and pasted b/c the link does not work):

1. The number of rats total was never stated. They could have used 5,10, or 100. There are just statistics thrown around to quantify gains. (MuscleTech does this shady angle all too well)

2. This piggybacks the first statement: What do they mean the results conclude ? Does 99% mean it concluded or just 51% ? I'm assuming they used the 'majority rule' which percentages are not stated (and neither were the # of rats used).

3. I don't know if you caught the 'ad libitum' statement that was there, but basically what the study is summing up is: 'rats were fed 50% of what they usually eat for one week, the the other 2 they were allowed to eat how ever much they wanted to.' The amount of intake should have been controlled the whole time.

4. Three weeks is not long enough to quantify the statement they are making.



So there you go.

If you are so skeptical of BCAA supplementation, then go to PubMed and see the studies on BCAA consumption and their positive effects. Taking free-form BCAAs is much different than consuming whole proteins. Many AAs compete for absorption when they are taken together, which is the reason that there are such different effects depending on how you consume them.

I will defend BCAAs because the anecdotal and personal evidence is so overwhelming. No supplement is necessary, but there is a definite hierarchy with BCAAs being in the top portion.