EAA, BCAA or Leucine. Which do you prefer?

[Timme]

Which do you prefer and why?

 

[ReaperX]

I speculate to a certain degree how much amino acids you really need in general. I don't go out of my way though to supplement with amino acids in general outside of what Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard provides me.

 

[Timme]

I speculate to a certain degree how much amino acids you really need in general. I don't go out of my way though to supplement with amino acids in general outside of what Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard provides me.

Maybe you should?

Although many studies have shown that amino acid ingestion acutely stimulates protein anabolism, only few studies have investigated whether long-term supplementation promotes changes in body composition.

We therefore tested the hypothesis that l-leucine (LEU) and l-phenylalanine (PHE) supplementation might have a positive impact on the body composition of rats submitted to intermittent periods of food restriction and refeeding (weight cycling or WC).

The WC protocol comprised three cycles, each consisting of 1 week of 50% food restriction followed by 2 weeks of ad libitum ingestion. The groups submitted to WC ingested the control diet (WC-CON) or the diet supplemented with LEU+PHE (WC-AA). A pair-fed group receiving the control diet (PF-CON) was used as a reference for the effects of WC.

Although food intake was the same in all groups, higher body weight and energy efficiency were observed in the WC-AA group compared to the PF-CON and WC-CON groups although not significantly in relation to the latter. These results were the consequence of a significant increase of lean body mass and body protein content in the WC-AA group compared to the PF-CON and WC-CON groups.

The WC-CON and WC-AA groups presented 36.1% and 18.9% more body fat, respectively, than the PF-CON group but this difference was not significant.

Neither fasting insulin nor glucose concentration nor postprandial insulin secretion was significantly affected by the supplemented diet.

In conclusion, supplementation with LEU+PHE improved the body composition profile of rats submitted to WC, mainly by increasing lean body mass and body protein content.

Life Sci. 2007 Apr 24; Effects of leucine and phenylalanine supplementation during intermittent periods of food restriction and refeeding in adult rats.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MImg&_imagekey=B6T99-4NJWP1M-3-7&_cdi=5109&_user=10&_orig=search&_coverDate=04/24/2007&_sk=999999999&view=c&wchp=dGLbVtz-zSkWW&md5=54feeba0c157555baef997008eba6e16&ie=/sdarticle.pdf

 

[Timme]

Sorry if I sounded cocky, I didn't mean that.

 

[Distilled Water]

I speculate to a certain degree how much amino acids you really need in general. I don't go out of my way though to supplement with amino acids in general outside of what Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard provides me.

I was on the same boat as you for a while, maybe 2 years. In the past 2 though i have started using BCAA and I can definatley tell a diff. with recovery. When cutting I seem to keep more muscle and strength and when bulking I tend to get stronger. Just some thought. I only use BCAA's around workout time. Usually ~15gr during has worked best for me. But i respect your opinion

I perfer BCAA's nly because they are the only type i have used. I tried the old Purple wrath and just couldnt stomach the taste and it didnt seem to be helping out much. Leucine has really caught my attention and I may be using it down the road

 

[Timme]

I was on the same boat as you for a while, maybe 2 years. In the past 2 though i have started using BCAA and I can definatley tell a diff. with recovery. When cutting I seem to keep more muscle and strength and when bulking I tend to get stronger. Just some thought. I only use BCAA's around workout time. Usually ~15gr during has worked best for me. But i respect your opinion

I perfer BCAA's nly because they are the only type i have used. I tried the old Purple wrath and just couldnt stomach the taste and it didnt seem to be helping out much. Leucine has really caught my attention and I may be using it down the road

But why not all of the EAA'S?

 

[ReaperX]

Let me clarify what I had meant by my previous post. I did use amino acid specific supplements, and for a long time I took this high dosage amino acid blend that they have been mixing in cancer patients at our hospital to drink. It worked ok for me for awhile, but I would never pay the price tag that the hospital pays for them. The Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard protein has a decent amount of BCAAs and amino acids per scoop, and I average about 5 shakes a day.

Purple Wraath in my opinion is unnecessary, but of course like I said, that is just my opinion.

 

[hardestgainer]

I was on the same boat as you for a while, maybe 2 years. In the past 2 though i have started using BCAA and I can definatley tell a diff. with recovery. When cutting I seem to keep more muscle and strength and when bulking I tend to get stronger. Just some thought. I only use BCAA's around workout time. Usually ~15gr during has worked best for me. But i respect your opinion

I perfer BCAA's nly because they are the only type i have used. I tried the old Purple wrath and just couldnt stomach the taste and it didnt seem to be helping out much. Leucine has really caught my attention and I may be using it down the road

Definantly notice a diff on bcaas for sure. Just started using them within the last 6 months. awesome for cutting and bulking.

 

[redhawk76]

Let me clarify what I had meant by my previous post. I did use amino acid specific supplements, and for a long time I took this high dosage amino acid blend that they have been mixing in cancer patients at our hospital to drink. It worked ok for me for awhile, but I would never pay the price tag that the hospital pays for them. The Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard protein has a decent amount of BCAAs and amino acids per scoop, and I average about 5 shakes a day.

Purple Wraath in my opinion is unnecessary, but of course like I said, that is just my opinion.

There are also bcaa's in all complete forms of protein, like your chicken.

FREE FORM amino acids have benefits over whey protein shakes

 

[blackjackcat]

Bingo! You are spot on with this comment.

There are also bcaa's in all complete forms of protein, like your chicken.

FREE FORM amino acids have benefits over whey protein shakes

 

[MentalTwitch]

BCAAs FTW!

 

[Distilled Water]

But why not all of the EAA'S?

Well because BCAA are the 1st thing I started using and Im getting great results and i havent seen anyone who's using EAA's and seeing better results, catch my drift?

Leucine though......looks nice and its cheap. I may try 10gr postworkout next time I'm cutting

 

[Timme]

Well because BCAA are the 1st thing I started using and Im getting great results and i havent seen anyone who's using EAA's and seeing better results, catch my drift?

Leucine though......looks nice and its cheap. I may try 10gr postworkout next time I'm cutting

Yes, i catch your drift

 

[ReaperX]

Ok there are already 4 things wrong with this study that was presented to me (I'm going off of what was copy and pasted b/c the link does not work):

1. The number of rats total was never stated. They could have used 5,10, or 100. There are just statistics thrown around to quantify gains. (MuscleTech does this shady angle all too well)

2. This piggybacks the first statement: What do they mean the results conclude ? Does 99% mean it concluded or just 51% ? I'm assuming they used the 'majority rule' which percentages are not stated (and neither were the # of rats used).

3. I don't know if you caught the 'ad libitum' statement that was there, but basically what the study is summing up is: 'rats were fed 50% of what they usually eat for one week, the the other 2 they were allowed to eat how ever much they wanted to.' The amount of intake should have been controlled the whole time.

4. Three weeks is not long enough to quantify the statement they are making.



So there you go.

 

[Rodja]

Ok there are already 4 things wrong with this study that was presented to me (I'm going off of what was copy and pasted b/c the link does not work):

1. The number of rats total was never stated. They could have used 5,10, or 100. There are just statistics thrown around to quantify gains. (MuscleTech does this shady angle all too well)

2. This piggybacks the first statement: What do they mean the results conclude ? Does 99% mean it concluded or just 51% ? I'm assuming they used the 'majority rule' which percentages are not stated (and neither were the # of rats used).

3. I don't know if you caught the 'ad libitum' statement that was there, but basically what the study is summing up is: 'rats were fed 50% of what they usually eat for one week, the the other 2 they were allowed to eat how ever much they wanted to.' The amount of intake should have been controlled the whole time.

4. Three weeks is not long enough to quantify the statement they are making.



So there you go.

If you are so skeptical of BCAA supplementation, then go to PubMed and see the studies on BCAA consumption and their positive effects. Taking free-form BCAAs is much different than consuming whole proteins. Many AAs compete for absorption when they are taken together, which is the reason that there are such different effects depending on how you consume them.

I will defend BCAAs because the anecdotal and personal evidence is so overwhelming. No supplement is necessary, but there is a definite hierarchy with BCAAs being in the top portion.

 

[ReaperX]

I've tried the Xtend refreshing watermelon version. Can anyone else comment on the other flavors ?

 

[redhawk76]

I've tried the Xtend refreshing watermelon version. Can anyone else comment on the other flavors ?

lemonade is good, prob a little better IMO, but I liked watermelon as well. Haven't tried grape, it usually gets worse reviews compared to the other two

 

[MentalTwitch]

There are alot of things on the effectiveness of BCAAs. Not so much EAA or Glutamine. I started on Glutamin, still use it here and there, but BCAAs have definetly showed their worth and now their popularity/effectiveness. JUST ABOUT everyone on here is on Excell,Xtend,Purple Wrath or Bulk BCAAs.

 

[Iron Warrior]

BCAA's all the way. It's not a new sexy supplement but it delivers results

 

[Timme]

There are alot of things on the effectiveness of BCAAs. Not so much EAA or Glutamine. I started on Glutamin, still use it here and there, but BCAAs have definetly showed their worth and now their popularity/effectiveness. JUST ABOUT everyone on here is on Excell,Xtend,Purple Wrath or Bulk BCAAs.

You do know that Purple Wrath is an EAA supplement? They have only skipped the amino acid tryptophan because it was never used in the research about Essential Amino Acids effect on human skeletal muscles.

 

[MentalTwitch]

You do know that Purple Wrath is an EAA supplement? They have only skipped the amino acid tryptophan because it was never used in the research about Essential Amino Acids effect on human skeletal muscles.

Yea, my point was BCAAs seem to be more dominant supplement. PW is still getting great reviews. Most lean toward the BCAAs from what i notice.

 

[Rogue Drone]

I don't use BCAAs because my study of their use suggests two things, one is that if one's whole protein intake is at the optimal 1.4 to 2.0g/kg bodyweight range, which mine usually is, they provide little or no additional anabolic benefit, and I believe that a throughout the day use has a negative reduction effect on Brain Dopamine and Norephephrine levels and I've never noticed any real workout stamina benefit from pre or during workout use.

This article pretty much sums up what I believe about them
BCAAs Supplement Profile

 

[vidapreta]

Would there be any benefit to taking BCAA and EAA ?? Just to have all your bases covered,or is this a stupid idea ??

 

[Skircus7]

I use BCAAs or EAAs during cardio & weights, and I also add 5-6g of Leucine to my post workout shake.

All three for me :cheers:

 

[angelo212]

I don't use BCAAs because my study of their use suggests two things, one is that if one's whole protein intake is at the optimal 1.4 to 2.0g/kg bodyweight range, which mine usually is, they provide little or no additional anabolic benefit, and I believe that a throughout the day use has a negative reduction effect on Brain Dopamine and Norephephrine levels and I've never noticed any real workout stamina benefit from pre or during workout use.

This article pretty much sums up what I believe about them
BCAAs Supplement Profile

I agree. Unless there is a calorie restriction there is no need to supplement with BCAA.

 

[Timme]

I agree. Unless there is a calorie restriction there is no need to supplement with BCAA.

But BCAAs dramatically increase protein synthesis. You can not increase it that much without the extra amino acids in free form.

 

[vidapreta]

Are there any noticable strength gains when megadosing BCAA's or not really???

 

[djbombsquad]

25 grams out of 200 grams of bcaa's are great.

 

[vidapreta]

25 grams out of 200 grams of bcaa's are great.

What??

 

[Rogue Drone]

But BCAAs dramatically increase protein synthesis.

In a deficiency state, any form of additional protein will do this. When not in that state, the studies suggest it's no better than the other forms.

You can not increase it that much without the extra amino acids in free form.

The studies done in humans do not support the claim that free forms are superior.

Protein aspects aside, don't underestimate how much mental focus and emotional strength can be negatively affected by a reduction in Dopamine and NE levels. BCAA used once a day, probably not a big deal in this area, used multiply, not good. That alone keeps me away from them.

 

[Timme]

In a deficiency state, any form of additional protein will do this. When not in that state, the studies suggest it's no better than the other forms.



The studies done in humans do not support the claim that free forms are superior.

Protein aspects aside, don't underestimate how much mental focus and emotional strength can be negatively affected by a reduction in Dopamine and NE levels. BCAA used once a day, probably not a big deal in this area, used multiply, not good. That alone keeps me away from them.

Maybe I shouldn't use so much EAA after all. I don't want to reduce Dopamine.

 

[nelix]

nothing kills my libido like BCAA.

EAA and leucine don't seem to have the same effect

 

[justreading]

Wow I am loving BCAA but have noticed that my libido and sleep have been MESSED up since I started them. This is going to be a hard decision on which is more important! As of today I am stopping the BCAA I think.

 

[ItsHectic]

Has anyone noticed EAAs messing up there libido or sleep?

I just read that 25grams of BCAAs per day should mess with libido or dopamine.

 

[Timme]

Has anyone noticed EAAs messing up there libido or sleep?

I just read that 25grams of BCAAs per day should mess with libido or dopamine.

Try EAAs. I believe that they are better then only BCAAs because they have all the essential amino acids. If you tuse a EAA supplement you can get away with eating less protein from real food and thus needing fewer calories.

 

[ItsHectic]

I just checked 100% whey protein and it contains EAAs including tyrosine(precursor to dopamine).

 

[Wedgylx]

I've tried the Xtend refreshing watermelon version. Can anyone else comment on the other flavors ?

watermelon is amazing. I liked grape too.

the grape flavor (2 scoops) mixed with a scoop of Purple Wrath V1 still tastes great to me, and that says alot for anybody who tried PW1

 

[Wedgylx]

I don't use BCAAs because my study of their use suggests two things, one is that if one's whole protein intake is at the optimal 1.4 to 2.0g/kg bodyweight range, which mine usually is, they provide little or no additional anabolic benefit, and I believe that a throughout the day use has a negative reduction effect on Brain Dopamine and Norephephrine levels and I've never noticed any real workout stamina benefit from pre or during workout use.

This article pretty much sums up what I believe about them
BCAAs Supplement Profile

I only use mine on cuts. I also notice better results when mixing them with WMS.

 

[Rogue Drone]

It's no wonder the Members here are always on the hunt for the Superduper Libido Pooper Upper.

66% swearing by BCAA = Dopamine dropping = Prolactin Rising = Members getting limpy, the thrill is gone. It's probably not helping with "Game" either.

I don't know how true that simplistic formula really is, and I don't want to test it out, then I'll be thinking it's a lack of Test(osterone) issue.

 

[kraftkid]

I use BCAA's quite a bit and have for some time. I think they make a major difference when trying to lean out in muscle preservation. I also like the convenience of being able to take them with me (capsules), when not using bulk in shakes.

I have NEVER experienced a problem sleeping, or issues with libido. That is a new one on me.

 

[MentalTwitch]

I ouldlike to see actuall proof on th libido and sleep. Many outside factors can come into play in saying that is the cause.

 

[DaveGabe24]

Personally, I would only use BCAA's everyday when in a caloric deficit. Other than that, free-form pre/during/post workout is always good.

My best option is BCAA's with bulk Leucine added in.

 

[justreading]

I ouldlike to see actuall proof on th libido and sleep. Many outside factors can come into play in saying that is the cause.

Well than what you really would need to see is the effects on dopamine levels that article speaks about... You have a point in that but now that its been brought to my attention I can look back and think that it may be a legitimate concern.

 

[kraftkid]

If this is a real issue, it must be individual dependent. I have taken one of my doses of BCAA's immediately prior to bed for the last couple of years and I have not seen these issues.

I have noticed when I don't closely monitor my coffee consumption or use of stims, I may have restless sleep and wake up groggy. For me, i cut off all stims at about 5PM.

Justreading. Not doubting you at all, but are you sure there aren't any other variables that could have caused these probs? Just trying to weed out likely candidates.

 

[MentalTwitch]

Was goin to buy Excell or maybe Bulk BCAAs fromNP. Now i'm second guessin' it. Maybe the bulk EAAs with Taurine?

Bulk EAAs from NP
L-Leucine - 4500mg
L-Isoleucine - 800mg
L-Valine - 2000mg
L-Lysine - 2000mg
L-Phenylalanine - 1700mg
L-Threonine - 1400mg
L-Histidine - 650mg
L-Methionine -450mg

 

[Timme]

Was goin to buy Excell or maybe Bulk BCAAs fromNP. Now i'm second guessin' it. Maybe the bulk EAAs with Taurine?

Bulk EAAs from NP
L-Leucine - 4500mg
L-Isoleucine - 800mg
L-Valine - 2000mg
L-Lysine - 2000mg
L-Phenylalanine - 1700mg
L-Threonine - 1400mg
L-Histidine - 650mg
L-Methionine -450mg

I would have taken the bulk EAAs

 

[AnonyMoose]

What??

ditto that - what?

20 of 200?

 

[ultraman]

I like Excell (BCAA powder) and Animal Nitro (EAA pills). :cheers:

 

[msucurt]

Was goin to buy Excell or maybe Bulk BCAAs fromNP. Now i'm second guessin' it. Maybe the bulk EAAs with Taurine?

Bulk EAAs from NP
L-Leucine - 4500mg
L-Isoleucine - 800mg
L-Valine - 2000mg
L-Lysine - 2000mg
L-Phenylalanine - 1700mg
L-Threonine - 1400mg
L-Histidine - 650mg
L-Methionine -450mg

I went with XTEND for during workout, and L-Leucine for PWO, along with CEE.

 

[Markoni321]

15g BCAA + 5g Leucine