BCAA timing, dosing, results.....

Jmuls

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I've read many articles and posts regarding the importance of supplementing with BCAAs to decrease recovery time, increase energy, and promote an anti-catabolic state. I've read of advocates of BCAA use recommending 5-10g, 5x/day, and how this can have a major impact on lean muscle gains. Almost seems too good to be true. Just curious what kind of doses people are using and at what times of the day to maximize the results/benefits. You're feedback is appreciated. Thanks!
 
Skircus7

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I've read many articles and posts regarding the importance of supplementing with BCAAs to decrease recovery time, increase energy, and promote an anti-catabolic state. I've read of advocates of BCAA use recommending 5-10g, 5x/day, and how this can have a major impact on lean muscle gains. Almost seems too good to be true. Just curious what kind of doses people are using and at what times of the day to maximize the results/benefits. You're feedback is appreciated. Thanks!
I take 10-15g of BCAAs during my cardio sessions, and 10-15g of BCAAs during my workout sessions. It really decreases DOMS.

I wouldnt do cardio without it. It helps preserve muscle mass during cardio.
 
xjsynx

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I take 10-15g of BCAAs during my cardio sessions, and 10-15g of BCAAs during my workout sessions. It really decreases DOMS.

I wouldnt do cardio without it. It helps preserve muscle mass during cardio.
^ True Story.

I take 10g of BCAA's 4-5 times a day, each on an empty stomach.

First thing in the morning 10g
Before lunch 5-10g
pre-peri workout 15-20g
Before bed 10-15g drink about half and save the other half if I wake up in the middle of the night.
 

getjacked63

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I take 10-15g of BCAAs during my cardio sessions, and 10-15g of BCAAs during my workout sessions. It really decreases DOMS.

I wouldnt do cardio without it. It helps preserve muscle mass during cardio.
do you drink DURING cardio (as in take swigs while your running) or drink right before a cardio session?
 
Skircus7

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do you drink DURING cardio (as in take swigs while your running) or drink right before a cardio session?
yeah, I actually drink Xtend DURING cardio. I do cardio on the elliptical machine, so it is very easy to take swigs during cardio. I had reconstructive knee surgery and also had most of my meniscus cartilage taken out of the same knee :sick: As a result, I cannot run on the treadmill or the street because the constant impact really hurts.
 
DrnkMnky

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On days I work I mix 6 scoops Excell (42 g) in a gallon juug and drink throughout the day. I also use 4 scoops (28 g) for pre, during, and post workout.

So some days I might have up to 70 g BCAAs. I also work a very strenous job and am currently cutting.
 

getjacked63

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On days I work I mix 6 scoops Excell (42 g) in a gallon juug and drink throughout the day. I also use 4 scoops (28 g) for pre, during, and post workout.

So some days I might have up to 70 g BCAAs. I also work a very strenous job and am currently cutting.
damn, i would love to be able to do this, however my wallet just doesnt allow it.....taking that much excell cannot be cheap, especially when stacked with other supps.
 
john123131

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just use them during and post workout....10 grams during cardio/weights...and 5-10 grams post with wms and whey
 
Steveoph

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I will probably be buying some bulk BCAA's in the near future, but right now all I'm doing is Whey, Fish Oil, and Protein (and SMASH now too) but I never was getting DOMS with proper cooldown/post WO nutrition.

And man I love elliptical machines. When I was trying to lose weight I would go for one-hour cardio sessions and burn almost 1300 calories .
 
Skircus7

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And man I love elliptical machines. When I was trying to lose weight I would go for one-hour cardio sessions and burn almost 1300 calories .
Elliptical machines RULE!! :D

:head:
 
Jmuls

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^ True Story.

I take 10g of BCAA's 4-5 times a day, each on an empty stomach.

First thing in the morning 10g
Before lunch 5-10g
pre-peri workout 15-20g
Before bed 10-15g drink about half and save the other half if I wake up in the middle of the night.
xjsynx, what does this type of dosing schedule do for you when you're in a bulking phase? I guess what I'm getting at is, has that type of dosing made a big enough difference in your gains that you wouldn't think twice about taking it out of your supplement regimine. Just trying to get as much feedback about high dosing like this. Thanks!
 
xjsynx

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xjsynx, what does this type of dosing schedule do for you when you're in a bulking phase? I guess what I'm getting at is, has that type of dosing made a big enough difference in your gains that you wouldn't think twice about taking it out of your supplement regimine. Just trying to get as much feedback about high dosing like this. Thanks!
In a bulking or cutting phase it keeps your body in an anabolic state, and supplies your body the building blocks to build LBM and preserve muscle. It also raises hgh levels and suppresses Exercise Induced Catabolism.

My personal experience is faster recovery, and increased size and strength. Especially, because my diet is the weak link in my training, due to my hectic schedule and lack of food preparation. With a better diet, I am certain my gains in size and strength would increase.
 
bLacKjAck.

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For bulking BCAA's don't hurt anything. But I don't use them as much during a bulk, because of less cardio, there is less chance for muscle wasting because I am eating constantly.

During a cut/recomp tho, BCAA's are absolutely crucial imo, bc of the increased cardio sessions, and increased intensity of those cardio sessions. During cutting you don't eat as many calories, and BCAA's are an amazing way to preserve muscle without adding extra calories to a diet that shouldn't have room for that.
 
Jmuls

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xjsynx and bLacKjAck.

Exactly the feedback I was looking for. Thanks!
 

Sub7

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when taking 50 grams of more of BCAAs, isn't there a risk of creating an amino acid imbalance? I know that consuming too much Leucine can deplete isoleucine and valine bu of course this doesn't apply to BCAAs because they have all 3 of these already. however, isn't there any risk or sides because you are still taking only 3 aminos out of 20+

Sub7
 
DrnkMnky

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when taking 50 grams of more of BCAAs, isn't there a risk of creating an amino acid imbalance? I know that consuming too much Leucine can deplete isoleucine and valine bu of course this doesn't apply to BCAAs because they have all 3 of these already. however, isn't there any risk or sides because you are still taking only 3 aminos out of 20+

Sub7

I don't see there being a risk as long as your protein intake from food/whey is high throughtout the day.
 

Sub7

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I don't see there being a risk as long as your protein intake from food/whey is high throughtout the day.
If you are taking 10 grams or so of BCAA, yes, I agree. But at 50 grams a day, you are ingesting a tremendous amount of just 3 amino acids; looks very likely to create an imbalance...
 
xjsynx

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when taking 50 grams of more of BCAAs, isn't there a risk of creating an amino acid imbalance? I know that consuming too much Leucine can deplete isoleucine and valine bu of course this doesn't apply to BCAAs because they have all 3 of these already. however, isn't there any risk or sides because you are still taking only 3 aminos out of 20+

Sub7
A bodybuilder should be consuming anywhere from 1-2 grams of protein per bodyweight lb, so you should be receiving adequate amounts of non-essential amino acids from protein sources for shakes and solid foods.

Some keypoints of leucine (Source unkown did a print to PDF awhile back):
"The branched chain amino acids, leucine, isoleucine, and valine are three of the essential amino acids which have the perfect capability for acting as signaling molecules to control muscle growth. This is because the liver lacks the enzyme responsible for initiating their breakdown. Therefore, while a large amount of the other amino acids are degraded and taken up by the liver and other tissues of the gut, the BCAAs enter into peripheral circulation, where skeletal muscle tissue is relatively unscathed"

"Leucine’s primary role appears to be increasing protein synthesis. But recall that muscle growth is the difference between protein synthesis and breakdown (degradation). Leucine appears to decrease protein breakdown. For example leucine has lowered markers of muscle damage in both resistance training and endurance conditions."

"increased leucine concentration activates mTOR, which activates protein synthesis, and increases a cells capacity to produce new proteins."

"leucine intake per day for athletes may be optimized at 20-30
grams a day"

Why is the maintenance of leucine levels so important to maintaining protein synthesis?
While the answer is extremely complex, it can be simplified as follows.
1. Recall that mTOR is the machinery that leucine acts on to trigger protein synthesis.

2. It appears that leucine, insulin, and growth factors such as insulin like growth factor increase the activity of mTOR.

3. But, decreased energy stores in the cell, such as occurs during exercise, decreases the activity of mTOR.
When leucine levels are maintained they are able to counter the negative effects of lowered energy stores. But, the combination of lowered leucine, and decreased energy stores in the cell leads to a net decrease in protein synthesis.

Can supplementation inhibit the catabolic effects of cardio?
This question is critical and applies mainly to two situations.
1. Long duration cardio
2. Cardio on an empty stomach, particularly after an overnight fast. Both are avoided because they are catabolic. But why are they catabolic? Evidence suggests that they may be so due to lowered plasma leucine levels. Thus, supplementing with an essential amino acid mixture prior to endurance exercise that
is long duration, or cardio in the morning may negate the catabolic effects seen. More studies need to be done to examine this, but the implications are great for two reaons
1. Long duration cardio relies on a greater percentage of fat
2. cardio on an empty stomach relies on a greater percentage of fat then cardio closer to a previous meal.
 

Sub7

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shameless bump in the hope that I can get an answer... :wave:
 
xjsynx

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I thought I pretty much covered it, or I did in one of the other many threads on BCAAs. As far as an imbalance in amino acids? Your body can have a deficiency in an amino acids, but if it is a non-essential, your body can synthesize them, unlike the inability to synthesize essential aminos. Furthermore, the only imbalance I see is not enough BCAAs. Other than that your other aminos should be covered by your daily protein intake.

To conclude, Charles Poliquin covered this again during training:

Now, during workout the most important thing is Branched Chain Amino Acids (BCAAs). People who claim they don't get results from them simply don't take enough. A 200 pound man should take 40 grams of BCAAs during a workout. I also add 9 grams of Carnosine.
BCAAs have a host of research-supported benefits including preventing catabolism, stimulating anabolism, lowering DOMS, and providing endurance, energy, and an increased rate of recovery. Military personnel in many countries now receive BCAA solutions to prevent mental fatigue during maneuvers.
For post-workout I use a "protein pulse" which I learned about from Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale. Take about 15 grams of essential amino acids. Wait about ten minutes and then have a post-workout drink.
 

getjacked63

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xjsynx could you elaborate on the "protein pulse" for post workout? that seems very interesting!
 
Jmuls

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Hmmm.....please explain further with regards to this "protein pulse." Thanks!
 
xjsynx

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In a nut shell, when suplementing BCAAs, primarily Leucine, it puts your body in an anabolic state. Once your body is in an anabolic state, you then supply it the materials to create muscle growth.
 
Jmuls

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This was taken from Charles Poliquin's April edition of "Question of Strength" on T-Mag.....

Mega-Dose BCAAs

Q: What's your current thoughts on pre-, mid-, and post-workout drinks?

A: Pre-workout I don't use drinks. For pre-workout I like to use things that will increase neural drive like Acetyl L-Carnitine, huperzine A, vinpocetine, and things like that. Also, I prefer solid foods rich in tyrosine over drinks pre-workout because I want the blood sugar to be stable.

Now, during workout the most important thing is Branched Chain Amino Acids (BCAAs). People who claim they don't get results from them simply don't take enough. A 200 pound man should take 40 grams of BCAAs during a workout. I also add 9 grams of Carnosine.

I make my own amino acid blend capsules and find that you can train much harder with them and not get sore. In between sets you take four or five capsules. My athletes might go through 40 or 50 capsules per workout. We just dump about fifty capsules in a bottle and make sure they're all gone by the end of the workout. I find that to be very anabolic. Most people who try that protocol break their plateaus right away.

BCAAs have a host of research-supported benefits including preventing catabolism, stimulating anabolism, lowering DOMS, and providing endurance, energy, and an increased rate of recovery. Military personnel in many countries now receive BCAA solutions to prevent mental fatigue during maneuvers.

For post-workout I use a "protein pulse" which I learned about from Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale. Take about 15 grams of essential amino acids. Wait about ten minutes and then have a post-workout drink. Biotest's Surge fits the bill nicely.

Sure, mention the 4 to one ratio for lean guys is applicable.

The makeup of the drink depends on how lean you are. If you're a fat bastard, then you should stick with whey, glycine, and glutamine. If you're lean and need to put weight on, I like to use one gram of protein for every four grams of carbs.

For the carbs I like to use a mixture of things that are fast and slow, some glucose and some maltodextrin. I also like to take a high dose of taurine and R-Lipoic Acid after training. There are some new types of carbohydrates being used like rice oligodextrin (currently used in Metabolic Drive Complete) that look promising too.
 
AnonyMoose

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On days I work I mix 6 scoops Excell (42 g) in a gallon juug and drink throughout the day. I also use 4 scoops (28 g) for pre, during, and post workout.

So some days I might have up to 70 g BCAAs. I also work a very strenous job and am currently cutting.

np and other places sell in in bulk - more affordable option.
 

hensleyac

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No phone # for Nutraplanet

Well I read a bunch of threads cuz Im looking for good BCAA's and everything points me to Nutraplanet and the Excell product.

I register add a stawberry to the cart and get an error message. I can't find a phone # to call the order in. Anyone know Nutra's #?
 
xjsynx

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Well I read a bunch of threads cuz Im looking for good BCAA's and everything points me to Nutraplanet and the Excell product.

I register add a stawberry to the cart and get an error message. I can't find a phone # to call the order in. Anyone know Nutra's #?
I don't have their number, but they are quick to respond via the 'Contact Us' link on their site. this also gives me the opportunity to say how great NP's customer service is :head:
 

hensleyac

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Stawberry Excell came today

This thread led me to this product.

Here's my initial opinion

1 to 10 scale (10 being best)

Taste 7 (I've tasted worse for sure)
Mixability 4 (no lie let it sit for 20 minutes)
Package 7 It comes in a bag (like coffee beans). Wants to fall over and spill my PRECIOUS BCAA's all over.
Quality Cant judge yet, but I bought it because people everywhere seem to say good things about it.
 
DrnkMnky

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This thread led me to this product.

Here's my initial opinion

1 to 10 scale (10 being best)

Taste 7 (I've tasted worse for sure)
Mixability 4 (no lie let it sit for 20 minutes)
Package 7 It comes in a bag (like coffee beans). Wants to fall over and spill my PRECIOUS BCAA's all over.
Quality Cant judge yet, but I bought it because people everywhere seem to say good things about it.
Thank you for your purchase:).

How exactly are you mixing it? How much water with how many servings?
 
UNCfan1

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I take 10-15g of BCAAs during my cardio sessions, and 10-15g of BCAAs during my workout sessions. It really decreases DOMS.

I wouldnt do cardio without it. It helps preserve muscle mass during cardio.
I thought about using them during cardio too. Great idea. I too run 10-20g during training.
 

hensleyac

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How to Ready Mix Excell BCAA's

Thank you for your purchase:).

How exactly are you mixing it? How much water with how many servings?
I took 4 bottles of water and took a swig out of each. Poured a full scoop of Excell into each and shook. Came back 20 minutes later and did again.

The drink looks pretty much like clear water with nothing on the bottom and just a few "floaties"

Anybody see a problem with premixing BCAA's days in advance? If not, I'd like to do this with a full case of water.
 
UNCfan1

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I took 4 bottles of water and took a swig out of each. Poured a full scoop of Excell into each and shook. Came back 20 minutes later and did again.

The drink looks pretty much like clear water with nothing on the bottom and just a few "floaties"

Anybody see a problem with premixing BCAA's days in advance? If not, I'd like to do this with a full case of water.
I don't think it would be a problem as long as u kept them cool. Thats a good idea!
 
rysigpi

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No problem on pre mixxing. Mark at scviation said the xtend is fine for a couple weeks in water and in the fridge...:bb3:
 
xjsynx

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No problem on pre mixxing. Mark at scviation said the xtend is fine for a couple weeks in water and in the fridge...:bb3:
I might have to try that, or make some Xtend Ice Cubes/Popsicles...
 
mattyh7688

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currently i take bulk leucine around 10-15grams during workout and i plan on upping to around 30-50grams once i start cutting for a show in september in around june, dont mean to hijack thread but two things ive read that bulk leucine is fine instead of bulk bcaa especially on a budget(which i am) is this ok or should i look into spending the extra money for a bulk bcaa and does these need to be free form amino acids because i take in around 6 scoops of whey a day each scoop having 5grams of BCAA (no worries i still get 250g of protein in real food a day) i understand bulk bcaa may be better but will it make a major difference? either way i plan on adding a good 10grams preworkout and 15-20grams pwo but supplementing during the day should i look into counting the protein shakes
 
xjsynx

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...but two things ive read that bulk leucine is fine instead of bulk bcaa...
If you had to choose one, I would go with Leucine as well. The addition of the rest of the BCAA's (Valine and Isoleucine) help prolong the anabolic effects of Leucine.
 
metroba

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how much is too much bcaa?
 

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I've read many articles and posts regarding the importance of supplementing with BCAAs to decrease recovery time, increase energy, and promote an anti-catabolic state. I've read of advocates of BCAA use recommending 5-10g, 5x/day, and how this can have a major impact on lean muscle gains. Almost seems too good to be true. Just curious what kind of doses people are using and at what times of the day to maximize the results/benefits. You're feedback is appreciated. Thanks!
I like doing 15-30 grams BCAA and start sipping it 15 minutes pre workout and sip the rest during and post workout.
 
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