GLA + Endothil-Cr= Amazing stack?

Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. Registered User
    Socrates44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    233

    GLA + Endothil-Cr= Amazing stack?


    Ok, GLA (gamma-linoleic acid) is an Omega-6 fatty acid. It is commonly found in Evening Primrose Oil, marketed towards women.
    Seeing as I am a cheap-a$$ I have come to realize GLA is converted into Arachidonic Acid in the body. This fatty acid eventually creates leukotrienes which are bad news for asthmatics, but good news for lifters.

    Now i have personally used Endothil with great success. Since endothil helps to recruit stem-cells for new muscle growth after you have tricked your body into thinking it was dying, couldnt you use the inflammatory effect of GLA to prolong and accelerate the endothils affect?

    Anyone tried this? Does this sound like a killer stack to anyone else or am I a dolt?

  2. Registered User
    emiliozapata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    45
    Posts
    632
    Rep Power
    1036

    havent tried it but borage oil is an even greater source of the GLA than what EPO is
  3. Registered User
    Vipersg123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Age
    27
    Posts
    609
    Rep Power
    572

    endothil is literally green tomato...
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    Socrates44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    233

    Quote Originally Posted by Vipersg123 View Post
    endothil is literally green tomato...
    I know, and it ticks me off... I am super skeptical of everything I try, but I got like 40 tabs from the Arnold and I tried it out. I trained to failure and it worked amazingly. I have no idea why or how, but it definitely put some mass and strength on me.
  5. Controlled Labs Board Rep
    Board Sponsor
    cervasa1977's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Columbia SC
    Posts
    248
    Rep Power
    221

    Quote Originally Posted by Socrates44 View Post
    I know, and it ticks me off... I am super skeptical of everything I try, but I got like 40 tabs from the Arnold and I tried it out. I trained to failure and it worked amazingly. I have no idea why or how, but it definitely put some mass and strength on me.
    maybe it was you training to failure that put the mass on endothil is a joke..........
  6. Registered User
    emiliozapata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    45
    Posts
    632
    Rep Power
    1036

    Apparently black currant seed oil is the stuff to get for GLA content, interesting that it converts to ARA in the body, i wonder how efficient the conversion is, mg for mg.
  7. Registered User
    Socrates44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    233

    Yea because if something in that endothil actually works (and im not claiming miracles) and it does what it says, if you induce inflammation and work out to failure, you could be seeing some serious mass gains.
  8. Recovering AXoholic
    Board Sponsor
    thesinner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Isle of Misfit Toys
    Age
    28
    Posts
    10,063
    Rep Power
    11888

    I could've sworn ARA was an essential fatty acid, meaning you're body cannot produce it.
    Athletic Xtreme Rep
    Bob@athleticxtreme.com
    IFFI
    Ask me about the Athletic Xtreme Product Line
  9. Registered User
    Socrates44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    233

    GTE (Green Tomato Extract) has been shown to cause angiogenesis in small quanities. Angiogenesis is the creating of new blood vessels. Endothil, gets its name from endothelial, the endothelial cells are those that line the interior of the artery. These cells contain certain receptors called alpha 7-nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (a-7ACR) for short. These receptors are the target of the GTE. When they interact, the a-7ACR uses the GTE as its substrate and activates a cascade that causes angiogenesis. However, this will only take place under hypoxia or inflammation (commonly found in muscle wasting diseases such ALS and Muscular Dystrophy). Side note: endothil was actually made for these disorders.


    Like I said before, I am an endo and I can put on muscle really easy. After two weeks of using this stuff I put on 5-7lbs and my strength shot up. I can't wait to try it again with some GLA.
  10. Registered User
    Socrates44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    233

    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    I could've sworn ARA was an essential fatty acid, meaning you're body cannot produce it.
    Your body can only produce omega 3 fatty acids. However, since you are bringing in an exogenous omega 6, your body can transduce GLA into AA, giving you the inflammatory properties.
  11. Recovering AXoholic
    Board Sponsor
    thesinner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Isle of Misfit Toys
    Age
    28
    Posts
    10,063
    Rep Power
    11888

    Good luck socrates, let us know how this pans out.
    Athletic Xtreme Rep
    Bob@athleticxtreme.com
    IFFI
    Ask me about the Athletic Xtreme Product Line
  12. Registered User
    Wordz_Worf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    nowhere special
    Posts
    255
    Rep Power
    226

    Interesting stuff.
  13. Gold Member
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Delirium, Tremens
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    961

    Quote Originally Posted by Socrates44 View Post
    I have come to realize GLA is converted into Arachidonic Acid in the body. This fatty acid eventually creates leukotrienes which are bad news for asthmatics, but good news for lifters.
    Unfortunately for you, it doesn't actually work that way.

    The only way to utilize the increased anabolism from arachidonic acid is to consume arachidonic acid. May I suggest X-Factor?
    MOTIV8 II Challenge
    -=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
  14. Registered User
    Socrates44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    233

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeternitatis View Post
    Unfortunately for you, it doesn't actually work that way.

    The only way to utilize the increased anabolism from arachidonic acid is to consume arachidonic acid. May I suggest X-Factor?
    Actually GLA is transduced down into AA and Dihomo-gamma-linoleic acid and I think EPA correct?

    Now taking a pro-inflammatory agent like AA is one of the most absurd things I can think of. You are turning on Thromboxane which causes a myriad of problems (increased vasoconstriction, increases platelet aggregation which increases the risk of embolies and clots). With GLA you are getting the slight inflammatory period of AA, but then having it wiped clean by the EPA and DHLA (merely a contraindication of pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory). While I am not bashing your product, I believe people need to be truly informed about AA before it is widely accepted as an everyday supplement.

    Arachidonic Acid
    1.)platelet aggregation
    2.)Vasoconstriction
    3.)Leukotriene synthesis (causes bronchoconstriction)

    The GLA will have the slight inflammatory effect of AA with the excellent health benefits of Omega-3 fatty acids.


    Also, if I am not mistaken, you probably reccommend that people not use Omega-3 supplementation while using X-Factor correct?
  15. Gold Member
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Delirium, Tremens
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    961

    I'm not arguing the metabolism of GLA at all. What I'm saying is that the theory doesn't work out in the real world.

    Have you used XF before? I think it's important that you have in order to compare the results. But I'm willing to wager that not only will GLA NOT provide the anabolism associated with X-Factor supplementation, but it may be counterproductive at such high doses.

    I encourage you to try this out though. Preferably without any other supplements to confound the results.
    MOTIV8 II Challenge
    -=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
  16. Gold Member
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Delirium, Tremens
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    961

    Quote Originally Posted by Socrates44 View Post
    Actually GLA is transduced down into AA and Dihomo-gamma-linoleic acid and I think EPA correct?

    Now taking a pro-inflammatory agent like AA is one of the most absurd things I can think of. You are turning on Thromboxane which causes a myriad of problems (increased vasoconstriction, increases platelet aggregation which increases the risk of embolies and clots). With GLA you are getting the slight inflammatory period of AA, but then having it wiped clean by the EPA and DHLA (merely a contraindication of pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory). While I am not bashing your product, I believe people need to be truly informed about AA before it is widely accepted as an everyday supplement.

    Arachidonic Acid
    1.)platelet aggregation
    2.)Vasoconstriction
    3.)Leukotriene synthesis (causes bronchoconstriction)
    I guess you haven't seen the studies showing AA supplementation at 4.7 grams per day for 50 days showing no signs of the above markers.
    MOTIV8 II Challenge
    -=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
  17. Registered User
    Socrates44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    233

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeternitatis View Post
    I guess you haven't seen the studies showing AA supplementation at 4.7 grams per day for 50 days showing no signs of the above markers.
    No I have not, but if you have the link I would enjoy the read. I am a pharmacologist first, lifter second, and I have been wanting to hear good news about AA for a long time from a reliable second-party.

    Not saying you arent reliable, but you may be a little biased

  18. Gold Member
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Delirium, Tremens
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    961

    Quote Originally Posted by Socrates44 View Post
    No I have not, but if you have the link I would enjoy the read. I am a pharmacologist first, lifter second, and I have been wanting to hear good news about AA for a long time from a reliable second-party.

    Not saying you arent reliable, but you may be a little biased

    Sure, I'll go find it. It's what we based our 50 day cycle recommendation on.
    MOTIV8 II Challenge
    -=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
  19. Gold Member
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Delirium, Tremens
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    961

    Okay, here's this for now. Still looking for that other one. I don't think I saved it with my regular X-Factor info, so it might take me a while to find it.


    "... adding 1.5 g/d of dietary AA for 50 d to a typical Western diet containing about 200 mg of AA produces no observable physiological changes in blood coagulation and thrombotic tendencies in healthy, adult males compared to the unsupplemented diet. " - Lipids. 1997 Apr;32(4):421-5

    "AA (1.5 g/d) was incorporated into the diet of six men from day 16 to 65... the lack of any adverse effects on immune response indicates that supplementation with AA may be done safely when needed for other health reasons.' - Lipids. 1997 Apr;32(4):449-56.

    "Normal healthy male volunteers (n = 10) were fed diets (high-AA) containing 1.7 g/d of arachidonic acid (AA) for 50 d... Dietary AA had no statistically significant effect on the blood cholesterol levels, lipoprotein distribution, or apoprotein levels. ... the results demonstrate that dietary AA does not alter blood lipids or lipoprotein levels or have obvious adverse health effects at this level and duration of feeding. " - Lipids. 1997 Apr;32(4):427-33.
    MOTIV8 II Challenge
    -=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
  20. Registered User
    kdent7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Age
    31
    Posts
    29
    Rep Power
    128

    GLA -> DGLA (Anti-Inflammatory conversions).

    DGLA -> AA (Pro-Inflammatory conversions).

    DGLA is metabolized to AA via Delta-5 Desaturase. Delta-5 is the enzyme used for both conversion to AA and also for further conversion of EPA to anti-inflammatory compounds.

    Delta-5 is preferential (binding affinity maybe) towards further EPA conversions as opposed to DGLA -> AA conversion.

    Additionally Delta-5 is inhibited by Sesamin intake. (further Anti-Inflammation).

    Am I going to source all of this...not a chance, laziness abound

    I'm currently attempting to fight inflammation with a stack of Super EPA (NOW), GLA (Borage, EPO), Sesamin and Curcumin Extract w/ Bioperine.
  21. Registered User
    Socrates44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    233

    you had mentioned 4.7 grams earlier, where this is stating 1.5 plus 200mg, was that a typo?
  22. Gold Member
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Delirium, Tremens
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    961

    Quote Originally Posted by Socrates44 View Post
    you had mentioned 4.7 grams earlier, where this is stating 1.5 plus 200mg, was that a typo?
    Yes, dammit! That's like the third time I've done that. I meant 1.7 grams. I don't know why I'm always typing 4 instead of 1.

    "Normal healthy male volunteers (n = 10) were fed diets (high-AA) containing 1.7 g/d of arachidonic acid (AA) for 50 d... Dietary AA had no statistically significant effect on the blood cholesterol levels, lipoprotein distribution, or apoprotein levels. ... the results demonstrate that dietary AA does not alter blood lipids or lipoprotein levels or have obvious adverse health effects at this level and duration of feeding. " - Lipids. 1997 Apr;32(4):427-33.
    MOTIV8 II Challenge
    -=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
  23. Recovering AXoholic
    Board Sponsor
    thesinner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Isle of Misfit Toys
    Age
    28
    Posts
    10,063
    Rep Power
    11888

    You're using the numberpad......aren't you?
    Athletic Xtreme Rep
    Bob@athleticxtreme.com
    IFFI
    Ask me about the Athletic Xtreme Product Line
  24. Registered User
    Socrates44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    233

    I was about to say, I have read where over 3 showed negatives, so I was looking forward to reading about it.lol. That low of a dosage shows the anabolic effects?

    Have any free samples of it?
  25. Gold Member
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Delirium, Tremens
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    961

    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    You're using the numberpad......aren't you?
    Haha, that'll do it!


    Quote Originally Posted by Socrates44
    Have any free samples of it?
    No, we don't bother with it. X-Factor needs to load in muscle tissue for at least 1 week for full effects to kick in. Giving out free samples would not show people how well it actually works.
    MOTIV8 II Challenge
    -=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
  26. Registered User
    Socrates44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    233

    ...any free bottles??
  27. Gold Member
    Aeternitatis's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Delirium, Tremens
    Posts
    1,664
    Rep Power
    961

    Sure they're free... if you can afford it: X Factor (100 softgels) By Molecular Nutrition

    :bruce1:
    MOTIV8 II Challenge
    -=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
  28. Registered User
    kdent7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Age
    31
    Posts
    29
    Rep Power
    128

    Addendum to Previous Post


    My previous post above contained some inaccurate info.

    Delta-5 acts in the conversion of upstream fatty acids to EPA, not directly upon EPA itself.

    <Please Resume>
  29. Registered User
    Mannypolarbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Age
    27
    Posts
    70
    Rep Power
    129

    Can we all just get back to the fact that Endothil is a joke??? Endothil actually comes with a 7 day workout routine that they insist you follow while you are on their product. Someone is making a lot of money off of a copied workout plan and some Green Tomato extract... Don't get scammed, do your research on the ingredients before buying.
  30. Registered User
    Socrates44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    233

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannypolarbear View Post
    Can we all just get back to the fact that Endothil is a joke??? Endothil actually comes with a 7 day workout routine that they insist you follow while you are on their product. Someone is making a lot of money off of a copied workout plan and some Green Tomato extract... Don't get scammed, do your research on the ingredients before buying.

    I have done quite a bit of research on it and it has worked very well for me. The GTE really helped me pack on mass, I was skeptical but it worked great. I would insist, if you have never tried a product to not diss it. It comes off as arrogant
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Endothil CR... Anyone wan't to coment?
    By Jim Mills in forum Supplements
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 06-25-2008, 02:16 PM
  2. Endothil-CR
    By weakness is !!! in forum Supplements
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-03-2006, 10:27 PM
  3. Endothil-CR
    By MuscleBound1337 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-02-2006, 10:11 PM
  4. Endothil-CR... double strength in 6 weeks???
    By animalistic in forum Supplements
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-23-2005, 03:19 PM
  5. endothil-cr
    By Boogaloowill in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-13-2005, 07:35 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.