Yes, I've used Leviathan. It's one of those products that to me has stims in it so people "FEEL" it working and get all excited. And I wasn't bashing your product, just being blatant. And yes, I know about the "special" acacia plant and it doesn't impress me so far... maybe I haven't looked hard enough. But why not just use pure PEA?
Okay, it does have potential to be a decent formula. But without knowing amounts of each ingredient or at least what each is standardized for, it's impossible to say whether it will deliver or not.
Lastly, I really think the Y-HCI dose is too high. There's potential for some serious catecholamine imbalance if anyone uses this long term which will end up making fat loss VERY difficult. Although, at least you had the decency to use the HCI salt instead of that dirty yohimbe herb.
On a side note, I thought there were regulations against OTC prods containing more than 3mg per serving of Y-HCI. :think:
Truth be told we didn't create leviathan to be a product that you can "feel" working.. the caffeine levels in leviathan are significantly less than 99% of the stimulant products on the market. We were looking for as clean energy as possible while producing mood enhancing effects.
As far as why we used acacia instead of just PEA, it is based on the fact the extract is standardized to more than just PEA it is actually standardized to the following:
PEA
N-dimethylphenethylamine
N-methyl-b-phenylethylamine
B-Phenylethylamine
Not to mention when acacia was added to our beta testing batch, lean muscle mass either stayed consistent or increased during a cutting cycle... we haven't figured out exactly how it is helping preserve and increase lean muscle but we def like the results and are working to isolate it.
As to whether it delivers or not I think as with any supplement you have to have real world testing done...i.e. product logs and clinical studies. If leviathan works people will say it does, if it doesn't people will make it known that it doesn't. So far the consumer response has been very, very positive.
I understand your concerns with Yohimbine HCl.. but I believe that yohimbine hcl gets a bad rap because of the Yohimbe herb. Most companies have used a yohimbe extract stand to 2% to 10% Yohimbine.. Meaning that they would have to use 200mgs of a yohimbe bark ext standardized to 10% to get to 20mgs of yohimbine. This is where yohimbe can become dangerous. The yohimbe plant has 32 yohimbane alkaloids present in it.. which means that other 180mgs of the herb are made up of these other yohimbanes. Outside of Yohimbine the other 31 alkaloids have not been studied extensively so negative side effects have been seen from the bark extracts.
That being said the negative aspects of straight Yohimbine Hcl are very minimal if it used correctly and with caution. When testing leviathan over the last 120 days we found that the addition of about 18 to 20 mgs of yohimbine hcl per day provided very, very positive results for our testers. We would not have come out with this product with out the yohimbine hcl in it. We have always felt it is a safe compound if used with caution and understanding. Also through research all the positive aspects of yohimbine have been seen at 18 to 20 mgs for a 200lb human.
As far as long term use goes I don't think anybody should be on any stimulant based product for longer than 8 to 10 weeks with out cycling off it. It just doesn't make sense to increase metabolic rate for that long artificially with out cycling off.
As far as we are aware there is no otc limit of 3mgs per serving. We are able to sell leviathan into every major retailer in the country with out issue, not to mention there are many products available in gnc, walgreens, walmart and other locations with 5 to 9mgs per serving.
I appreciate your candidness and enjoying talking to people like your self who are very knowledgeable.
