Wow I'm out of the loop... advice please

[iconocin]

Greetings all.

Well aside from doing a LOT of searching (in which my time is a bit limited these days) then I'm completely out of the loop on what are THE supplements. I've been training for the past 3 years and after the first year I decided to jump on the PH 1-AD and followed up with 6-OXO as anyone should have. I had excellent gains and even did a second cycle 3 months later. Since that point I've just "maintained" with Whey and Multi and I even jumped on the BSN stack which wasn't that great of a gainer (loved NO-Xplode for the focus though).

So now I'm reading Methyl 1 this, and Anabolic Pump that and I haven't the slightest idea what is the "hot" but USEFUL product these days.

Which leads me to turn to you all for advice. Let's say I want to start a new stack (with PCT of course) what is recommended?

thanks,

 

[iconocin]

and just for stats/routine

Age: 28
Height: 5'10"
Weight: 185 (did reach 200 during PH)

I use the typical M: Chest/Tri T: Back/Bi W: Legs T: Shoulders/Abs

 

[CDB]

Which leads me to turn to you all for advice. Let's say I want to start a new stack (with post cycle therapy of course) what is recommended?

thanks,

What are you specific goals?

 

[iconocin]

What are you specific goals?

Mass primarily. Not looking to cut until Spring/Summer. I want to throw on the size/weight and get back up to 200+ and once that is attained I'll cut.

 

[bulls**t]

NHA stack plus AP would be nice.
Good hormonal profile plus nutrient partioning.

 

[iconocin]

NHA stack plus AP would be nice.
Good hormonal profile plus nutrient partioning.

Thanks. I'll do a search for NHA stack to see what that consist of.

 

[CDB]

NHA stack plus AP would be nice.
Good hormonal profile plus nutrient partioning.

In general I'd go along these lines as well. If you're interested in the semi legal PHs we couldn't discuss sources but ErgoMax/EMax and Pheraplex were some of the bigger and better ones recently. I'd also do a search for the TRN products and Halodrol and see from the logs which of those has the profile you're looking for. Personally though I'd stay away from them.

When it comes to the NHA type stacks what you're looking at is an SHBG deactivator, an AI and maybe a testosterone booster run concurrently. They're sold seperately such as the Designer Supplements NHA stack or in a one pill solution like ALRI's Jungle Warfare. You can check logs here, plenty of them around. But basically if you're looking to bulk naturally I'd say go with something along these lines:

Creatine (whichever one you want)
NHA (likewise)

That would be a base. Then you could attack the bulk from another angle too, specific to recovery it seems USP has the best products out, at least in my opinion. REM RG3 for sleep and PowerFull for a nice libido/energy boost and sleep as well wouldn't do you wrong. Anabolic Pump is a new one from them, looks like it might keep the fat from accumulating during a bulk and might be a worthy addition.

 

[iconocin]

In general I'd go along these lines as well. If you're interested in the semi legal PHs we couldn't discuss sources but ErgoMax/EMax and Pheraplex were some of the bigger and better ones recently. I'd also do a search for the TRN products and Halodrol and see from the logs which of those has the profile you're looking for. Personally though I'd stay away from them.

When it comes to the NHA type stacks what you're looking at is an SHBG deactivator, an AI and maybe a testosterone booster run concurrently. They're sold seperately such as the Designer Supplements NHA stack or in a one pill solution like ALRI's Jungle Warfare. You can check logs here, plenty of them around. But basically if you're looking to bulk naturally I'd say go with something along these lines:

Creatine (whichever one you want)
NHA (likewise)

That would be a base. Then you could attack the bulk from another angle too, specific to recovery it seems USP has the best products out, at least in my opinion. REM RG3 for sleep and PowerFull for a nice libido/energy boost and sleep as well wouldn't do you wrong. Anabolic Pump is a new one from them, looks like it might keep the fat from accumulating during a bulk and might be a worthy addition.

Thanks for the info. There is enough acronyms in that post that I'm definitely typing lolwtfbbqsauce? I'm assuming I can search for sources for the "semi legal" stuff.

A search for NHA on the boards produced nothing oddly enough.

Thanks though!

 

[CDB]

Thanks for the info. There is enough acronyms in that post that I'm definitely typing lolwtfbbqsauce? I'm assuming I can search for sources for the "semi legal" stuff.

A search for NHA on the boards produced nothing oddly enough.

Thanks though!

NHA (nonhormonal anabolic) is a generic term, people are probably talking more in specific products now. ALRI's Jungle Warfare is an all in one NHA stack, so is their Bad Ass Mass product I believe. Hyperdrol was another one I believe, but I don't think that one worked out too well. The original NHA stack was from Designer Supplements, it was ActivaTe and Rebound XT basically. It would be ActivaTe and Rebound Reloaded now, or you could use another AI other than theirs of course. The important thing for NHA approaches is to free up bound test, increase test if possible, and make sure the newly freed/produced test doesn't aromatize. DNA and now TNA coming from USB Labs are two other NHA products. DNA is no longer in production though, it was a kind of one off test run, but he might make it a regular product since demand is so high it seems. Or maybe TNA is what will be offerred instead. Pairing either one with an AI like Rebound or 6-oxo would be a good NHA stack.

You can look for sources all you want I would guess, just don't ask for them or post them if and when you find them. Most source posting stopped here a while ago, even for the semi legal grey market PHs that remained. Just not a good idea. I would also once more say it's best to avoid those products anyway. Most if not all of them are just left overs from when steroids were being researched heavily, and they weren't followed up on or put into production often because better and/or safer alternatives were already out on the market. Basically if you're going to juice using the existing group of tried and true steroids is usually the best way to go.

Were I you I'd use legal means a la NHA, go ultra strict on your diet and do a lean bulk from now until you want to cut. Supplement with products that will minimize fat gain and you'll be in a good position to cut down quick and easy come summer time.

I'd also recommend a change in training maybe too. Seems you're only hitting each body part once a week. For best results I'd recommend at least twice a week through a 5x5, HST or even MaxStim style. It's not an absolute necessary change, but if you've never tried it the more frequent approach is worth a shot.

 

[lawnboy246]

Can you elaborate on the 5x5, HST or even MaxStim style?

NHA (nonhormonal anabolic) is a generic term, people are probably talking more in specific products now. ALRI's Jungle Warfare is an all in one NHA stack, so is their Bad Ass Mass product I believe. Hyperdrol was another one I believe, but I don't think that one worked out too well. The original NHA stack was from Designer Supplements, it was ActivaTe and Rebound XT basically. It would be ActivaTe and Rebound Reloaded now, or you could use another AI other than theirs of course. The important thing for NHA approaches is to free up bound test, increase test if possible, and make sure the newly freed/produced test doesn't aromatize. DNA and now TNA coming from USB Labs are two other NHA products. DNA is no longer in production though, it was a kind of one off test run, but he might make it a regular product since demand is so high it seems. Or maybe TNA is what will be offerred instead. Pairing either one with an AI like Rebound or 6-oxo would be a good NHA stack.

You can look for sources all you want I would guess, just don't ask for them or post them if and when you find them. Most source posting stopped here a while ago, even for the semi legal grey market PHs that remained. Just not a good idea. I would also once more say it's best to avoid those products anyway. Most if not all of them are just left overs from when steroids were being researched heavily, and they weren't followed up on or put into production often because better and/or safer alternatives were already out on the market. Basically if you're going to juice using the existing group of tried and true steroids is usually the best way to go.

Were I you I'd use legal means a la NHA, go ultra strict on your diet and do a lean bulk from now until you want to cut. Supplement with products that will minimize fat gain and you'll be in a good position to cut down quick and easy come summer time.

I'd also recommend a change in training maybe too. Seems you're only hitting each body part once a week. For best results I'd recommend at least twice a week through a 5x5, HST or even MaxStim style. It's not an absolute necessary change, but if you've never tried it the more frequent approach is worth a shot.

 

[Rodja]

5x5 is a program that is built around the "big 5" exercises - bench, squats, deads, BB rows, and military press. I use this and my program looks like this
Mon - Bench, Squats, BB Rows, some bicep work, and core
Wed - Deads, Military Press, tricep work, core
Fri - Incline BP, Fron Squats, One-Arm Rows, core

Do 5 sets of 5 reps for the big exercises and 2-3 sets of 6-10 reps for bis/tris and make sure to put focus on core work. This program helps with not only strength, but also mass (provided nutrition is adequate). Another thing I want to say is that you should use this for about 10-12 weeks and then take a week off for recovery.

 

[lawnboy246]

Thanks for the info; any ideas about HST or MaxStim style?

5x5 is a program that is built around the "big 5" exercises - bench, squats, deads, BB rows, and military press. I use this and my program looks like this
Mon - Bench, Squats, BB Rows, some bicep work, and core
Wed - Deads, Military Press, tricep work, core
Fri - Incline BP, Fron Squats, One-Arm Rows, core

Do 5 sets of 5 reps for the big exercises and 2-3 sets of 6-10 reps for bis/tris and make sure to put focus on core work. This program helps with not only strength, but also mass (provided nutrition is adequate). Another thing I want to say is that you should use this for about 10-12 weeks and then take a week off for recovery.

 

[Rodja]

Thanks for the info; any ideas about HST or MaxStim style?

HST is basically a low-rep, low volume, high-intensity style of training. I used a similar system called Max-OT for about 2 years off and on and I enjoyed the training because your workouts are only about 45 minutes. General rule of thumb is to focus on compound exercises and minimal "shaping" exercises. Big muscle have about a 9 set volume and smaller muscles are between 4-6 sets with the reps ranging from 4-8 on every set except for warm-ups and feel sets.

Not very sure about MaxStim, but it is probably similar to HST or DC training.

 

[CDB]

HST is basically a low-rep, low volume, high-intensity style of training. I used a similar system called Max-OT for about 2 years off and on and I enjoyed the training because your workouts are only about 45 minutes.

I think you're thinking of HIT, Rodja. HST is quite different from Max OT and HIT.

any ideas about HST or MaxStim style?

HST and MaxStim are similar. The idea behind both is simple: You have an overall macrocycle made up of several microcycles. In each micro cycle you work up to 100%-110% of a given rep max. You have to decondition or deload with lighter weights for a couple weeks before either one starts. The basic idea is progressive loading over time, fairly simple, and the main point you'd pull from them mostly for iconocin's purposes is to up the frequency.

You can find explanations of both systems in linked in my sig, HST is evident and you can find the MaxStim workout at the Hypertrophy Research site. This link explains 5x5 more in depth: Madcow's 5x5 and Training Theory and Information Site

 

[lawnboy246]

I just started the NHA stack by DS this week and here is my routine:

Monday- Chest
Tuesday- Back
Wednesday- Cardio
Thursday- Shoulders
Friday- Arms
Saturday- Cardio
Sunday- Legs

Sounds like things need to be adjusted a bit.

I think you're thinking of HIT, Rodja. HST is quite different from Max OT and HIT.



HST and MaxStim are similar. The idea behind both is simple: You have an overall macrocycle made up of several microcycles. In each micro cycle you work up to 100%-110% of a given rep max. You have to decondition or deload with lighter weights for a couple weeks before either one starts. The basic idea is progressive loading over time, fairly simple, and the main point you'd pull from them mostly for iconocin's purposes is to up the frequency.

You can find explanations of both systems in linked in my sig, HST is evident and you can find the MaxStim workout at the Hypertrophy Research site. This link explains 5x5 more in depth: Madcow's 5x5 and Training Theory and Information Site

 

[CDB]

I just started the NHA stack by DS this week and here is my routine:

Monday- Chest
Tuesday- Back
Wednesday- Cardio
Thursday- Shoulders
Friday- Arms
Saturday- Cardio
Sunday- Legs

Sounds like things need to be adjusted a bit.

Is it working for you? If so things don't need to be adjusted. They can be adjusted to maybe make things work better, but in the end even a half assed routine will get you gains with the right diet and dedication. So the question is what are your goals, what have you tried in the past and how are you approaching your current routine and diet, etc?

HST and MaxStim are very good routines, but in the end everyone is different and all anyone can do is lay out some general principles of how to design a workout and explain why what works actually does work. Within those guidelines are a lot of wiggle room. It's not like training once a week for each muscle group won't get you gains. You just might get better gains in the long term by training more frequently, all other factors appropriately adjusted.

 

[Travis]

I had great results using HST during a cut. Diet was very low carb.

I tried HST during a bulk many years ago and I dont think the results were that great. I need to try it again since it typically is known for adding mass.

 

[lawnboy246]

Yeah, I have been on that routine for a while now so just might be time to mix it up. I am thinking of doing something like the following:

Monday- Chest/Triceps
Tuesday- Back/Biceps
Wednesday- Legs
Thursday- Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Friday- Back/Biceps
Weekend- Off or Sat- Off, Sun- Shoulders/Legs

Is it working for you? If so things don't need to be adjusted. They can be adjusted to maybe make things work better, but in the end even a half assed routine will get you gains with the right diet and dedication. So the question is what are your goals, what have you tried in the past and how are you approaching your current routine and diet, etc?

HST and MaxStim are very good routines, but in the end everyone is different and all anyone can do is lay out some general principles of how to design a workout and explain why what works actually does work. Within those guidelines are a lot of wiggle room. It's not like training once a week for each muscle group won't get you gains. You just might get better gains in the long term by training more frequently, all other factors appropriately adjusted.

 

[CDB]

I prefer 5x5. Nice and basic routine:

Monday: Squat, Bench, Row, Good Mornings and Sit Ups.

Wednesday: Warm up Squats, Clean and Press, Dead Lift and Sit Ups.

Friday: Squat, Bench, Row, Flies, Curls, Skull Crushers.

Yeah, I have been on that routine for a while now so just might be time to mix it up. I am thinking of doing something like the following:

Monday- Chest/Triceps
Tuesday- Back/Biceps
Wednesday- Legs
Thursday- Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Friday- Back/Biceps
Weekend- Off or Sat- Off, Sun- Shoulders/Legs

 

[jonesboy]

when it comes to workout routines me and cdb are on the same page.. hst + max stim= a very nice routine...

 

[iconocin]

NICE info. Thanks all as I'll continue research this weekend and probably purchase some items come Monday.

thanks

 

[iconocin]

NHA (nonhormonal anabolic) is a generic term, people are probably talking more in specific products now. ALRI's Jungle Warfare is an all in one NHA stack, so is their Bad Ass Mass product I believe. Hyperdrol was another one I believe, but I don't think that one worked out too well. The original NHA stack was from Designer Supplements, it was ActivaTe and Rebound XT basically. It would be ActivaTe and Rebound Reloaded now, or you could use another AI other than theirs of course. The important thing for NHA approaches is to free up bound test, increase test if possible, and make sure the newly freed/produced test doesn't aromatize. DNA and now TNA coming from USB Labs are two other NHA products. DNA is no longer in production though, it was a kind of one off test run, but he might make it a regular product since demand is so high it seems. Or maybe TNA is what will be offerred instead. Pairing either one with an AI like Rebound or 6-oxo would be a good NHA stack.

You can look for sources all you want I would guess, just don't ask for them or post them if and when you find them. Most source posting stopped here a while ago, even for the semi legal grey market PHs that remained. Just not a good idea. I would also once more say it's best to avoid those products anyway. Most if not all of them are just left overs from when steroids were being researched heavily, and they weren't followed up on or put into production often because better and/or safer alternatives were already out on the market. Basically if you're going to juice using the existing group of tried and true steroids is usually the best way to go.

Were I you I'd use legal means a la NHA, go ultra strict on your diet and do a lean bulk from now until you want to cut. Supplement with products that will minimize fat gain and you'll be in a good position to cut down quick and easy come summer time.

I'd also recommend a change in training maybe too. Seems you're only hitting each body part once a week. For best results I'd recommend at least twice a week through a 5x5, HST or even MaxStim style. It's not an absolute necessary change, but if you've never tried it the more frequent approach is worth a shot.

No worries, I won't discuss anything that violates board terms.

So how does this sound
Jungle Warfare
6 OXO
Anabolic Pump

And of course, a multi and loads of whey. Would adding a CEE or NO product have any reverse effects?

 

[iconocin]

Now I actually wonder if I should wait for ALRI's last ingredient to their mass stack

 

[jonesboy]

this has worked for me. RXt/lxt throw in some ap and powerfull and you won't go wrong..

 

[CDB]

No need for the 6 oxo, JW has an AI in it already. The AP sounds like it would be good for keeping bulks lean so I think that's a nice addition. A creatine product would be a good idea. I have no opinion on NOS products. If you like the pumps they give, go right ahead. Otherwise they seem fairly useless for the most part. You might want to do the ALRI stack of JW, BAM and I think Restore afterward. There's a few logs of it going on right now, look for the one titled 8 Week Jungle Warfare & Bam Log By Ssw in the Supplement Reviews/Logs section.

Don't forget to up carbs too. Bulking is calories, not just protein. Plus the carbs after the AP dose would be necessary or you'll probably feel all sickly and not too happy.

No worries, I won't discuss anything that violates board terms.

So how does this sound
Jungle Warfare
6 OXO
Anabolic Pump

And of course, a multi and loads of whey. Would adding a CEE or NO product have any reverse effects?