Which of these supps is causing HORRENDOUS gas?

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  1. Ah, this is convenient. The research that I pull off Pubmed is crappy, but yours isn't. Nice.

    Not saying you are totally wrong, but there is much more to it than the simple stuff you put out. The RATIO of Na/K in the body is an all-important osmotic regulator, which DIRECTLY affects blood volume and thus, blood pressure.


  2. I'm not knocking you by any means - alot of discretion is needed when reviewing these articles and not all studies are treaed as gospel, man.

    PubMed simply lists studies and abstract. There are tons of journals that published that are niche and not peer reviewed bythough leaders in the field. For example an article published in The New England Journal of Medicine is far more respected and credible than an article published in Molecular Medicine .

    I am not specifically saying that all PubMed studies are great because they are not. There is as much garbage as there is very useful work - which is why it is really helpful to have the access to pull the e-journals off the web (though the ones published in the 80's and earlier sometimes require librarians to do the copying and emailing for you - thankfully!)

    The NA and K are two of the most important ions in our blood - particularly when discussing intravascular volume and in cardiac conduction. Some argue that it is not so much the ratio but rather the sheer concentration in the serum.

    K 3.5 - 5.2 mEq/L
    Na 135-147 mEq/L

    If you are within these ranges you are totally safe - ratio becomes irrelevant. What is important in terms of ratio is the Na-K pumps which for every 3 Na pumped out, two K come in. Intravascular volume is affected by water, secondarily the ions.

    Cheers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    Ah, this is convenient. The research that I pull off Pubmed is crappy, but yours isn't. Nice.

    Not saying you are totally wrong, but there is much more to it than the simple stuff you put out. The RATIO of Na/K in the body is an all-important osmotic regulator, which DIRECTLY affects blood volume and thus, blood pressure.
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by DeerDeer
    I'm not knocking you by any means - alot of discretion is needed when reviewing these articles and not all studies are treaed as gospel, man.

    PubMed simply lists studies and abstract. There are tons of journals that published that are niche and not peer reviewed bythough leaders in the field. For example an article published in The New England Journal of Medicine is far more respected and credible than an article published in Molecular Medicine .

    I am not specifically saying that all PubMed studies are great because they are not. There is as much garbage as there is very useful work - which is why it is really helpful to have the access to pull the e-journals off the web (though the ones published in the 80's and earlier sometimes require librarians to do the copying and emailing for you - thankfully!)

    The NA and K are two of the most important ions in our blood - particularly when discussing intravascular volume and in cardiac conduction. Some argue that it is not so much the ratio but rather the sheer concentration in the serum.

    K 3.5 - 5.2 mEq/L
    Na 135-147 mEq/L

    If you are within these ranges you are totally safe - ratio becomes irrelevant. What is important in terms of ratio is the Na-K pumps which for every 3 Na pumped out, two K come in. Intravascular volume is affected by water, secondarily the ions.

    Cheers.
    Ah, yes, the good ole ranges. You state "totally safe" but some people are in those ranges and have high blood pressure or other problems such as oedema and yet if you take them to the extreme or even outside of such a range such as 130Na and 5.5 K, suddenly the problems subside.

    Medical "science" is biased towards the "average, normal" individual, whereas there are very few people that are that theoretical average normal. A bit like the 1.9 children per family. That is the average. Yet, find me one family that has 1.9 child. Yes this is simplistic, but it is the way things are. Bioindividuality is so profound that ranges do much much much more harm than good.

    You put people on medication for being out of the ranges, or you put people on medication for something else when they are IN the range, whereas if you adjusted them to their particular comfort level, they might be - OMFG - out of the range and yet much healthier.

    It's tough wearing the shackles of a M.D. isn't it?
  4. you're over doing it on the fats


    Quil,

    looking at your stack, I think you are over doing it on the fatty acids. Melting point has TTA, which in the reviews I've read, is known to cause bloating and gas. MP also contains flax oil. Then, you're stacking sesaglow, which is sesamin oil. That's a lot of fat to add to your diet. I'm curious to see how much weight you lose on this stack.

    I have never taken restore, but I know what you are stacking with it is counterproductive. Sesamin and flax contain lignans. Lignan have been identified as a phytoestrogen. The estrogenic properties of these biochemicals have been shown to be due to their structural similarities to the hormone estradiol....that info is straight off wikpedia.com. With this information, I could never recommend flax or sesamin oil to any male. If you want to take a oil pill, take fish oil or X-factor, both are essential fatty acids.

    The problem could be your whey, but is really called lactose intolerance. I'm lactose intolerant. I switched to lactose free milk and whey isolates. It helps me from getting bloated and gasy. Labrada whey isolate is the best I've tasted, mixes awesome as well. Obviously, cheese would be another thing for you to avoid, but some cheeses are worse than others. Wikpedia also has a good link on lactose intolerance.

    I would have posted url's, but I'm new here and need 20 posts to do such a thing.


    Also, I have taken bulk forskolin, no flatulance problem, but it gave me headaches.


    Hope that helps! TQ

  5. Quote Originally Posted by TommyQ29
    Quil,

    looking at your stack, I think you are over doing it on the fatty acids. Melting point has TTA, which in the reviews I've read, is known to cause bloating and gas. MP also contains flax oil. Then, you're stacking sesaglow, which is sesamin oil. That's a lot of fat to add to your diet. I'm curious to see how much weight you lose on this stack.

    I have never taken restore, but I know what you are stacking with it is counterproductive. Sesamin and flax contain lignans. Lignan have been identified as a phytoestrogen. The estrogenic properties of these biochemicals have been shown to be due to their structural similarities to the hormone estradiol....that info is straight off wikpedia.com. With this information, I could never recommend flax or sesamin oil to any male. If you want to take a oil pill, take fish oil or X-factor, both are essential fatty acids.

    The problem could be your whey, but is really called lactose intolerance. I'm lactose intolerant. I switched to lactose free milk and whey isolates. It helps me from getting bloated and gasy. Labrada whey isolate is the best I've tasted, mixes awesome as well. Obviously, cheese would be another thing for you to avoid, but some cheeses are worse than others. Wikpedia also has a good link on lactose intolerance.

    I would have posted url's, but I'm new here and need 20 posts to do such a thing.


    Also, I have taken bulk forskolin, no flatulance problem, but it gave me headaches.


    Hope that helps! TQ
    TQ, that is an interesting take on the sesamin/flax...I'm curious to see what other's opinions on that are. Everything I've read says that stacking MP and Sesamin is recommended, as it has a potentially synergistic effect. I could see cutting back on the rest of my EFA intake in my diet, but not sure about cutting out flax/sesamin altogether. There are literally thousands of males that take either flax or sesamin or both with positive effects.

    I'm taking Restore because of the potential for testosterone production decrease on a long cutting cycle. I have been cutting for about 8 weeks already, and have lost 13 pounds. I have felt suppressed libido and overall aggression and drive over the last several weeks, so I thought I'd give Restore a try as I finish out my cut over the next month.

    Again, I'll be curious to hear more opinions on this.
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  6. I have battled gyno since I was a teenager, so I'm well researched on things that mimic estrogen in your body. I learned about flax originally from Chuck Diesel, I researched it on Wikpedia (awesome sight for research!). I'm sure flax or sesamin will give people results, especially if they don't have enough healthy fats in their diets. The better choice of Omega-3's (for men) is Fish Oil. Now Super EPA is my recommendation.

    If testosterone production is your concern, an anti-estrogen will help some. I've had bad experiences with over the counter stuff, all of it made me sick except the topicals. I recommend liquid nolvadex.

    Otherwise, if testosterone production is your worry, I suggest adding eggs with yolk to your diet and cutting calories somewhere else. Testosterone (and all sex hormones) are made from cholesterol. Dieters cut typically cut fat so much, their cholesterol drops too low, that's why the drop in hormone levels. You'll find cholesterol in egg yolk, plus egg has the highest absorbability of all protiens - can't beat it. I also recommend a LH boosting supplement. I stack Now Tribulus with Now American Ginseng, it works. Both of those supplements boost LH from things called saponins. Saponins are also found in olives and asparagus.fyi

    I've never tried it, but Designer Supplements Activate might be another thing for you to consider.

  7. Plasma elkectrolyte balance, the osmotic gap are CRITICAL to our wellbeing. The delicate balance between serum and intracellular electrolytes are critical for cardiac conduction, cellular regulatory processes and basically - LIFE.

    These ranges are not somoe arbitrary numbers but PERMISSIBLE numbers for these necessary reactions ot occur. Anything above or below these require IMMEDIATE medical attention.

    Let's just recap how critical these are:

    Hyperkalemia - cardiac concerns are th most dominating and frequent symptoms - several ekg changes (peaked T waves, flattened pwide qrs complex), neuromuscular numbness, weakness, flaccid paralysis and death.

    Hypokalemia - Neurological mostly, skeletal muscle weakness, can even be tot he extent of paralysis 9which is bad when it paralyzes your diaphragm), constipation, can get an ileus/bowel obstruction, cardiac arrhythmiahyperglycemia

    Hypernatremia - the symnptoms correlate with the extent of hyperosmolarity of course, the symptoms are primarily neurological, restlessness, irritability, disorientation, delirium, COMAlack of urine, brain hemorrhage, hyperventilation.

    Hyponatremia - lethargy, disorientation, hiccups, nausea, vomiting, COMA, depressed reflexesseizures, cranila nerve paralysis

    NOW given these possibilities as signs and symptoms, would you ever consider disrupting this critical balance of these ions? I dont' care if someone is asymptomatic, humans can fall off very QUICKLY. It is a delicate balance, don't mess with the K or Na bad things happen, I have seen them happen, I have seen acute changes leading to cardia arrest that could have been entirely avoided had a pcp been more aggressive in monitoring and repleting/removing these ions.

    I am far form wearing shackles my friend, I consider myself adherent to what is standard practice and known and ESTABLISHED for WELL over 100 years to be the norm. These are not basic test levels or cortisol levels. Plasma ion research was some of the first research that was ever done, longer than any trial has ever existed, I think it is safe to say that believing these ranges is more than backed by science, consider it your holy book.

    The comparison to 1.9 children is apples to oranges. If someone has a potassium of 6.0 and is completely asymptomatic, think of the stress that they are putting on their heart....they are an arrest waiting to happen. When cases of sudden death occur, think about how often a cardiac arrhythmia is associated with it...think about how often it happens to completely healthy athletes.

    Na and K are two of the ions I look to keep everyone within range, strictly, independent if someone feels "good". it is standard of care, not just osme arbitrary ranges I pulled out of my butt, a la 17HD. Be nice to your cardiac action potentials and keep the depolarization/repolarization moving. Your SA node will thank you and your AV node will return the favor to your Purkinje's.

    Cheers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    Ah, yes, the good ole ranges. You state "totally safe" but some people are in those ranges and have high blood pressure or other problems such as oedema and yet if you take them to the extreme or even outside of such a range such as 130Na and 5.5 K, suddenly the problems subside.

    Medical "science" is biased towards the "average, normal" individual, whereas there are very few people that are that theoretical average normal. A bit like the 1.9 children per family. That is the average. Yet, find me one family that has 1.9 child. Yes this is simplistic, but it is the way things are. Bioindividuality is so profound that ranges do much much much more harm than good.

    You put people on medication for being out of the ranges, or you put people on medication for something else when they are IN the range, whereas if you adjusted them to their particular comfort level, they might be - OMFG - out of the range and yet much healthier.

    It's tough wearing the shackles of a M.D. isn't it?

  8. So basically if someone has high blood pressure / hypertension and regularly test out at K = 3.5 and Na=147 then there is obviously something wrong with THEM and not their Na/K. Right. How can you be so sure?

    What I'm saying is that most M.D.'s will call that "within range" and move on to what to prescript the patient instead of learning that said patient lives off mostly cold cuts and white bread and that some dietary adjustment will permit to move (still within range) towards a safer ratio.

    But, no, they are within range.

  9. Hypertension is soooo multifactorial that looking at the Na and K alone would offer nothing. Someone with those values for Na and K - I would not touch them. Typical recommendations would be to suggest lifestyle modifications - that start with revaluation of ones diet (recommend low sodium diet 2gm Na of course) , activity and level of stress (as well as examination of comorbidities - diabetes, cardiovascular risk factors - lipid profile, family history, basically the JNC7's latest guidelines, watch them for 6 - 10 weeks and see if the interventions made a change then possibly start them on a medication if changes were unable to be made.

    The Na and K values are worrisome of they are out range completely. Values like those you give are never addressed, but rather followed. Please see the link below for the guidlines on hypertension.

    JNC7 - The Seventh Report of the Joint National Committee on Prevention, Detection, Evaluation, and Treatment of High Blood Pressure (JNC 7)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    So basically if someone has high blood pressure / hypertension and regularly test out at K = 3.5 and Na=147 then there is obviously something wrong with THEM and not their Na/K. Right. How can you be so sure?

    What I'm saying is that most M.D.'s will call that "within range" and move on to what to prescript the patient instead of learning that said patient lives off mostly cold cuts and white bread and that some dietary adjustment will permit to move (still within range) towards a safer ratio.

    But, no, they are within range.

  10. As interesting as this electrolyte discussion is, its waaaay off topic.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Quil
    Just started taking Melting Point, Sesaglow, cAmphibolic, Restore, and also Potassium. The flatulence is out of control here...
    I was doing something similar with Sesamin, lipidfx, cAmp and scorch, and my venting increased both in quantity and intensity. I traced it down to the flax oil gels I was also taking at the same time with my meals. Since dropping it gas levels have improved considerably.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Quil
    Just started taking Melting Point, Sesaglow, cAmphibolic, Restore, and also Potassium. The flatulence is out of control here...
    I was doing something similar with Sesamin, lipidfx, cAmp and scorch, and my venting increased both in quantity and intensity. I traced it down to the flax oil gels I was also taking at the same time with my meals. Since dropping it gas levels have improved considerably.

  13. I'm actually pretty sure it's the cAmp. I forgot to take it one day over the weekend, and the noxious fumes disappeared...

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Quil
    I'm actually pretty sure it's the cAmp. I forgot to take it one day over the weekend, and the noxious fumes disappeared...
    one point for me then

  15. Quote Originally Posted by aspire210
    one point for me then
    ding ding ding we have a winner
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