Nighttime Protein??

[East1600Plus]

well im needing more protein again lol!...but im ordering ON's 100% whey gold standard for morning shake mid day shake...between 2nd and 3rd period (im in highschool thats around like 9:30) and post workout and im getting a nighttime protein but cant decide between

-BSN Syntha-6 or 23 grams of protein 13g's carbs/2g's sugar
-MHP Probolic-SR 20 grams of protein 4g's carbs/1g sugar

both are fast/med/slow digesting protein syntha is cheaper and get 30 compared to just 28 servings with Probolic...but probolic is up to 12 hours of time release while syntha is just like 6-7 hours...thoughts?

 

[JJC]

This is really funny to me cuz I was thinking the same thing today...but at work. Once I start bulking again I want to get a night time protein to stay anabolic overnight.

I've used muscle milk and will always love it. But I would like to try something different.

I've heard Matrix 5.0 is a good sustained release protein but I would love to hear more so that I can make a educated decision by the time January rolls around.

SO people who know more than us: we could use some input!

Also, I have a question of my own. A protein like Muscle Milk has over 300 calories compared to something like Matrix 5.0 which has just over 100(well, I'd probably have two servings before bed so over 200). When it comes to overnight/sustained release proteins, can you sacrifice the number of calories as long as you have enough micellar casein protein? For example from above, would two servings of Matrix 5.0 be just as good as one serving of Muscle Milk(220 cals & 44 g protein vs 350 cals & 32 g protein + healthy fats)?

 

[MiKeY ReSp]

well im needing more protein again lol!...but im ordering ON's 100% whey gold standard for morning shake mid day shake...between 2nd and 3rd period (im in highschool thats around like 9:30) and post workout and im getting a nighttime protein but cant decide between

-BSN Syntha-6 or 23 grams of protein 13g's carbs/2g's sugar
-MHP Probolic-SR 20 grams of protein 4g's carbs/1g sugar

both are fast/med/slow digesting protein syntha is cheaper and get 30 compared to just 28 servings with Probolic...but probolic is up to 12 hours of time release while syntha is just like 6-7 hours...thoughts?

They're both really good proteins. I think it's going to be a matter of personal preference as I don't think your actually going to see a difference performance wise out of them. As long as you have a quality casein protein your good to go IMO. Out of the two you listed, I would probably go with the BSN, only because Probolic' is listed as "Supro Soy." I don't know exactly what that is, but I generally try to stay away from soy proteins. I don't believe that it takes 12 hours to digest either. But I'm sure it's still a good protein to drink before bedtime.

This is really funny to me cuz I was thinking the same thing today...but at work. Once I start bulking again I want to get a night time protein to stay anabolic overnight.

I've used muscle milk and will always love it. But I would like to try something different.

I've heard Matrix 5.0 is a good sustained release protein but I would love to hear more so that I can make a educated decision by the time January rolls around.

SO people who know more than us: we could use some input!

Also, I have a question of my own. A protein like Muscle Milk has over 300 calories compared to something like Matrix 5.0 which has just over 100(well, I'd probably have two servings before bed so over 200). When it comes to overnight/sustained release proteins, can you sacrifice the number of calories as long as you have enough micellar casein protein? For example from above, would two servings of Matrix 5.0 be just as good as one serving of Muscle Milk(220 cals & 44 g protein vs 350 cals & 32 g protein + healthy fats)?

I have used MuscleMilk and other products by Cytosport, but have no experience with Matrix. Why not stay with Cytosport and just swtich to Evopro? It's just the protein that they use in MuscleMilk without all the extra fat and calories. Personally I don't try to consume a lot of calories at night. Usually I just have a scoop of Evopro, some cottage cheese and some almonds. Seems to do the trick.

 

[JJC]

Good point. :goodpost:

One of the reasons that Matrix 5.0 looks so enticing is that it's less than $30 for ~76 servings (5 lbs). :woohoo: The macros look pretty similar to Evopro(which looks great too...don't get me wrong...plus I'm sure the flavor can't be beat).

I'm gonna continue to look into it with Evopro in my mind too. Thanks.

 

[MiKeY ReSp]

Good point. :goodpost:

One of the reasons that Matrix 5.0 looks so enticing is that it's less than $30 for ~76 servings (5 lbs). :woohoo: The macros look pretty similar to Evopro(which looks great too...don't get me wrong...plus I'm sure the flavor can't be beat).

I'm gonna continue to look into it with Evopro in my mind too. Thanks.

I'm going to look up Matrix right now and perhaps even give a shot it's similiar to Evopro and that easy on the wallet.

Evopro is great because its such a flexible protein powder. You can use it as and make home-made weight-gainers instead of buying weight gainers and such.

 

[bearmeat]

well im needing more protein again lol!...but im ordering ON's 100% whey gold standard for morning shake mid day shake...between 2nd and 3rd period (im in highschool thats around like 9:30) and post workout and im getting a nighttime protein but cant decide between

-BSN Syntha-6 or 23 grams of protein 13g's carbs/2g's sugar
-MHP Probolic-SR 20 grams of protein 4g's carbs/1g sugar

both are fast/med/slow digesting protein syntha is cheaper and get 30 compared to just 28 servings with Probolic...but probolic is up to 12 hours of time release while syntha is just like 6-7 hours...thoughts?

The 12 hour time release is all marketing. There's nothing special in it that makes it longer lasting. Furthermore, it's main protein source is soy...

Just get a casein based protein....or even better, save the money and just eat cottage cheese.

 

[JJC]

What if you also take zma before bed? I wouldn't want the calcium in the cottage cheese to interfere with the zma...even though I've done both at night before...

I'd still like to know what people prefer for night time proteins, just for future reference.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

You guys really need to check out Black Star Labs CASEIN PRO... $22.95 (51% Micellar Casein / 49% Whey Isolate) & mixes like a champ.


I would not suggest Syntrax Matrix 5.0 for tha simple fact that they list Whey Protein Concentrate first. This means it's primarily a WPC blend. You don't want a fast digesting protein at night... if money is really an issue, eat a can of tuna.

 

[East1600Plus]

then what about ON's Pro Complex PM?

or possibly Twinlabs.. AM/PM protein...60 servings...30 of AM 30 of PM protein...hmm for 30 bucks sounds nice?

 

[Jsouth]

Like it was said earlier tuna is a really good option, whole foods take longer to digest anyway then a shake. I mix some tuna with cottage cheese and some flaxseeds and eat that before bed. Its not the most tasty meal in the world but it does the trick

 

[Dwight Schrute]

then what about ON's Pro Complex PM?

or possibly Twinlabs.. AM/PM protein...60 servings...30 of AM 30 of PM protein...hmm for 30 bucks sounds nice?

Overpriced.

 

[bigstabile]

I wouldn't buy ANY premixed combo. Most likely it will be mostly whey with very little casien.

You could check out All the whey, they have casiens. Or you could just use straight whey and mix it with milk and olive oil. Casien is going to be more expensive so stretch it by using a combo of whey and casien before bed. Personall I get the complete milk dairy isolate from TP, it's 80% micellar casien and 20% whey isolate.

 

[p5sky]

I use ON Night time Complex/Casein, I mix it 50/50 with whey to stretch it out. Reasonably priced, reliable product

 

[m88tow]

Like what has already been mentioned, you can't beat milk and cottage cheese if your on a budget. I like Muscle Milk, just wish that it was cheaper.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Casien is going to be more expensive so stretch it by using a combo of whey and casien before bed.

There you go... also CASEIN PRO makes for a versatile product since it's very low in fat allowing it to be utilized pre/post workout without major slowdown to tha Isolates which many deem crucial during those timeframes.

Again, as I alluded to whole foods are indeed best. However, if you want a great quality "catch all" protein, Casein Pro is definitely worth tha price of admission.

 

[JJC]

So basically any protein with a high amount of Casein is best.

I also found ON has 100% Casein Protein. So it seems that that would work also...maybe stretch it out with whey...

 

[TeamSavage]

Just buy any casein protein, mix it with milk, add a little whey if you're so inclined, and you're good to go.

Or eat cottage cheese.

 

[East1600Plus]

Just buy any casein protein, mix it with milk, add a little whey if you're so inclined, and you're good to go.

Or eat cottage cheese.

what about sustain by DS?...its got casein as the main ingrediant and also has whey isolate

 

[TeamSavage]

what about sustain by DS?...its got casein as the main ingrediant and also has whey isolate

My main concern is the ratio of casein vs. whey. The ingredients are listed as, "Micellar Casein (from milk) Ceramic microfiltered Whey Protein Isolate, Whey Protein Concentrate." Since WPI and WPC are listed separately, it's possible that Sustain contains as listed as 35% micellar casein. IMO you want at least 50% casein before bed and preferably >70%.

 

[bigstabile]

So basically any protein with a high amount of Casein is best.

I also found ON has 100% Casein Protein. So it seems that that would work also...maybe stretch it out with whey...

I like ON casein. The chocolate tastes really good, nice smooth flavor and it's instantized so it mixes really easy. I would say compare price though, if I remember it's between $20-30 for 2lbs. You could probably do better then that from all the whey or TP.

Same goes for Sustain, good product but you could probably do better for the price.

One reason I don't go for the casien/whey blend necessarily is I only use the casien at night but I use whey throughout the day. So instead of having a plain whey and the a casien and whey I just get one of each and mix when necessary.

At night I think a 2:1 casien:whey is probably good, like 1 scoop casien and 1/2 scoop whey with milk. So you aren't using much whey at that time.

 

[East1600Plus]

My main concern is the ratio of casein vs. whey. The ingredients are listed as, "Micellar Casein (from milk) Ceramic microfiltered Whey Protein Isolate, Whey Protein Concentrate." Since WPI and WPC are listed separately, it's possible that Sustain contains as listed as 35% micellar casein. IMO you want at least 50% casein before bed and preferably >70%.

well would a DS board sponsor know the %'s of each??

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

My main concern is the ratio of casein vs. whey. The ingredients are listed as, "Micellar Casein (from milk) Ceramic microfiltered Whey Protein Isolate, Whey Protein Concentrate." Since WPI and WPC are listed separately, it's possible that Sustain contains as listed as 35% micellar casein. IMO you want at least 50% casein before bed and preferably >70%.

Cap't Robvious™ says add more scoops.

 

[East1600Plus]

nvm

 

[East1600Plus]

if i went to EDIT: we support board sponsors. and wanted to make my own custom mix for nighttime protein..what would the best % and type of protein to use...plus carbs? all that crap....like...milk protein isolate is that better than just micellar casein?..all that jibba jabba lol

 

[TeamSavage]

Cap't Robvious™ says add more scoops.

Cmdr. Snobvious says I'm talking about the ratio between casein and whey, so adding more scoops wouldn't matter (and would cost more).

 

[TeamSavage]

if i went to and wanted to make my own custom mix for nighttime protein..what would the best % and type of protein to use...plus carbs? all that crap....like...milk protein isolate is that better than just micellar casein?..all that jibba jabba lol

Milk protein isolate is just an 80/20% mix of micellar casein and whey. That's a pretty good bedtime shake by itself.

 

[East1600Plus]

Milk protein isolate is just an 80/20% mix of micellar casein and whey. That's a pretty good bedtime shake by itself.

o ok ...so then...ya...what else would i need to add? or what would u suggest to make this bedtime shake

 

[SMOKEPALADIN]

I like ON 100% casein-vanilla. I also have had great results with Dorian Yates Pro-Peptide blend at night (most other people consider it a better Post Workout blend than night blend though)

 

[East1600Plus]

right now i have....
30% Calcium Caseinate
25% Whey Protein Isolate Microfiltration
5% Egg White
40% Micellar Casein

but its 31.61$ for 3.5 Lbs

or...
40% Calcium Caseinate
35% Whey Protein Isolate Microfiltration
25% Micellar Casein

or
50% Calcium Caseinate
10% Micellar Casein
40% Whey Protein Isolate Microfiltration

 

[TeamSavage]

When I ordered a bedtime mix from TP I went with:

85% CMDI - Complete Milk Dairy Isolate (80% micellar casein, 20% WPI)
15% Egg White Protein

this yields...

~68% Micellar Casein
~17% Whey Protein Isolate
15% Egg White Protein

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Cmdr. Snobvious says I'm talking about the ratio between casein and whey, so adding more scoops wouldn't matter (and would cost more).

Ouch... tough crowd tonight.

Cap't reference was merely a poke at Robboe.

So you have me now, what makes your cited ratio tha perfect formulation?

 

[East1600Plus]

When I ordered a bedtime mix from TP I went with:

85% CMDI - Complete Milk Dairy Isolate (80% micellar casein, 20% WPI)
15% Egg White Protein

this yields...

~68% Micellar Casein
~17% Whey Protein Isolate
15% Egg White Protein

hmm what if i went with
80% CMDI
10% Calcium Caseinate
10% Egg White?

4 Lbs its 43$is that a good price?

 

[TeamSavage]

Ouch... tough crowd tonight.

Cap't reference was merely a poke at Robboe.

So you have me now, what makes your cited ratio tha perfect formulation?

Ahh... gotcha. I thought you were being a jerk. Turned out I was being the jerk.

Actually, now that I get it, that Captain Robvious remark was pretty funny...

I don't know about any "perfect" formulation, but generally you want significantly more casein than whey at bedtime since casein's absorbed slowly after 7-8 hours whereas whey absorbs quick in 1-2 hours.

 

[East1600Plus]

so then would i have a pretty good formula then?

 

[JJC]

sorry guys, but EDIT: We support board sponsors here. is what site exactly? :think:

sounds like making your own blend might be worth it...

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Just buy any casein protein, mix it with milk, add a little whey if you're so inclined, and you're good to go.

Or eat cottage cheese.

Exactly.

Stop splitting hairs over an extra 10% or a ratio. It makes exactly zero difference.

Casein, milk, a little whey if you want, have fun......

 

[bigstabile]

right now i have....
30% Calcium Caseinate
25% Whey Protein Isolate Microfiltration
5% Egg White
40% Micellar Casein

but its 31.61$ for 3.5 Lbs

or...
40% Calcium Caseinate
35% Whey Protein Isolate Microfiltration
25% Micellar Casein

or
50% Calcium Caseinate
10% Micellar Casein
40% Whey Protein Isolate Microfiltration

I would go with the milk protein isolate or the pre bed time formula (under "custom solutions"). Both are under $10 a lb.

 

[East1600Plus]

i think ill go with this

80% CMDI
10% Calcium Caseinate
10% Egg White

 

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

I think I'll just eat cottage cheese. Is there really a concern with the calcium and ZMA?

 

[rpen22]

High calcium intake is said to reduce zinc absorption. I have no idea if it's enough to worry about, but that's where the idea of taking ZMA a while before having a calcium-rich meal before bed comes from.

 

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

thanks

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Research is beginning to uncover that a blend of slow (casein) and fast (whey) release proteins may be optimal.

The following article is very educational...

Contemporary Issues in Protein Requirements and Consumption for Resistance Trained Athletes:
http://www.sportsnutritionsociety.or...-1-7-27-06.pdf

Here is the abstract to the above study...

Quote:
In recent years an explosion of research papers concerning protein consumption has been published. The need to consolidate this information has become critical from both practical and future research standpoints. For this reason, the following paper presents an in depth analysis of contemporary issues in protein requirements and consumption for resistance trained athletes. Specifically, the paper covers: 1.) protein requirements for resistance trained athletes; 2.) the effect of the digestion rate of protein on muscular protein balance; 3.) the optimal timing of protein intake relative to exercise; 4.) the optimal pattern of protein ingestion, relative to show an individual should consume their protein throughout a 24 hour period, and what sources are utilized during this time frame; 5.) protein composition and its interaction with measures of protein balance and strength performance; 6.) the combination of protein and carbohydrates on plasma insulin levels and protein balance; 7.) the efficacy of protein supplements and whole food protein sources. Our goal is to provide the reader with practical information in optimizing protein intake as well as for provision of sound advice to their clients. Finally, special care was taken to provide future research implications. Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition. 3(1):7-27, 2006

 

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

Here's another article .
John Berardi - Bedtime Story

 

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

I should have tried your link before I posted. It didnt work.