Debating a large combo of supplements

Highlanda01602

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Here's my deal:
I need to get to 20 pullups, ASAP! Training to be a Marine Officer, and right now my pullups are slacking down at 10/11. So I have been debating a stack of legal, non-hormonal supplements to give a go this winter break from college. At home, where I can control my diet strictly, it is much easier to strength train, which would be why I would do it this winter.


My main goal for the December/January time period would be to shoot up in as many pullups ASAP and maintain that number, and then increase gradually for months to come. I do plan on following a strict running program, which calls for 4-6 days of running a week.

Here is the supplements I have been contemplating on "cycling" for the 5-week period.
X-Factor (Or another AA product)
Symmetry
ALRI Jungle War
USPLabs PowerFULL
Anagen
Fenotest/test booster

I would like to stack a few of them, but I am unsure which work well together. Or, as a different question, which are safe together, with lots of cardio in mind.

Thanks
 
dsade

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For one thing, try adding in a high dose of Calcium before working out...and especially before the PT Test.
 

Irish_Rogue

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Being a former Marine, I would do 3 sets of 6-8 reps for a week, 3 times a week too. The next week try to add two more reps and so on mate. Add a few pounds whilst you do it after week two and you will be knocking out 20 in no time. No kipping.
 
pistonpump

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Being a former Marine, I would do 3 sets of 6-8 reps for a week, 3 times a week too. The next week try to add two more reps and so on mate. Add a few pounds whilst you do it after week two and you will be knocking out 20 in no time. No kipping.
so just sticking with same weight but trying to add more reps each week?
 
Jayhawkk

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Pull ups are an exercise that requires doing them to get better. I know that sounds stupid but what I mean is that you can actually get better with push ups, for example, by doing other movements.

Just do 'em and you'll see the numbers increase. IR, has good advice to see big improvements fast.
 
pistonpump

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stack looks killer too btw, liked anagen and fenotest cissus combo myself. You shoule take a creatine product as well maybe just plain mono or cee.
 

Irish_Rogue

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so just sticking with same weight but trying to add more reps each week?

You can do it that way. I have never done them with added weight, just increase my reps by two if possible every week until I could do 25 non-stop without kipping. (swinging my feet)
I still do 3 sets of 10-12 pull ups prior to any back workout days.
 

PumpingIron

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I like the idea of adding CEE. But make sure you are keeping an eye on your diet. Body weight exercises are an interesting bunch. The bigger and more muscular you get, the harder they are too do (but also the easier it should be to do them).

I think these guys are right, pound them out everyday~every other day...they should build up
 

jet11

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put a pull up bar in your room or house in a doorframe... everytime you walk past it...do 5-10 pull ups.... youll be there in 2 weeks

also.. i worked out with the USMC recruiters for a while.. do pyraminds.
2 pullups,
then 1 min break,
then 4,
then break,
then 6,
break,
then 8
break
then 10
break

its really effective and easier than it sounds
 
glg

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Semper Fi

I agree that the best way is to do the movement.

You might try doing assisted at higher reps. Let yourself overcompensate and mentally break the 20 rep boundry like in a plyometric type of program. Cyle it every other workout or two then go back to strict movements and see where you're at.

Sometimes it is a matter of convincing the brain that a plateau can be broken.
 

Highlanda01602

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Outstanding guys - really appreciate the replies.
I've "stacked" (pun) your information into a few good guidlines for myself to follow.

Irish Rogue, was your workout "Recon Ron" inspired? My OSO Captian posted the Recon Ron workout online, which had the user slowly add on reps each week, but it almost didn't sound like it was gunna work. With your positive review, I think I might give it a go around!

Some other good info also pushed me towards the "Armstrong" program, which is very popular. Contains pyramid sets, max effort sets, endurance sets... pretty interesting program (debating going on that one too).
Here's how it goes:
Monday - 5 max effort sets, 90 seconds rest
Tuesday - Pyramid set... 1 rep, 10 seconds rest... 2 reps, 2 seconds rest... 3 reps, 3 seconds rest.. until failure
Wednesday - 6 training sets (See below for training set info...3 opposite grip than normally, and then 3 underhand with pinkies touching) 60 seconds rest
Thursday - Max out on training sets.. it can be a long workout
Friday - Repeat the weakest day, which can change often

Training sets - A number I feel that I can comfortably do for at least 5 sets with 60 seconds rest. Say I can do 10 pullups, a good training set to START would be 4 reps.


Also, someone did note something about calcium? Does that improve endurance?

Thanks again for the help guys; much appreciated
Semper Fi
 

glsa17

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put a pull up bar in your room or house in a doorframe... everytime you walk past it...do 5-10 pull ups.... youll be there in 2 weeks

also.. i worked out with the USMC recruiters for a while.. do pyraminds.
2 pullups,
then 1 min break,
then 4,
then break,
then 6,
break,
then 8
break
then 10
break

its really effective and easier than it sounds
grease the groove!
 

Highlanda01602

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Semper Fi

I agree that the best way is to do the movement.

You might try doing assisted at higher reps. Let yourself overcompensate and mentally break the 20 rep boundry like in a plyometric type of program. Cyle it every other workout or two then go back to strict movements and see where you're at.

Sometimes it is a matter of convincing the brain that a plateau can be broken.

Gave a lot of thought to this one glg, and I think I might incorporate it. Sounds very effective - train for the endurance first to get to 20, then train for the strength to work up to the bodyweight. Very cool idea!

I hopped on the assisted pullup machine a short while ago, and my bud was pretty embarassed to see me on it. He says always to stick with bodyweight pullups, but then again he can crank out 25 and just recently scored a 300 on the PFT test. Easy for him to say! haha
 
glg

glg

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Another thought on this...do bodyweight til failure the go to the assisted and crank out a few more like a drop down pyramid set.
 
jmh80

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What about some Focus XT?

Caffeine is an effective ergogenic. The rest of the stuff in Focus really seemed to help Chaps increase his lifts (in his log on here).
 
SMOKEPALADIN

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Open every work out with pull ups , add 1 rep every 2nd work out and you will be doing 20 in about 4-5 weeks easy.
Running 4-6 times a week and tons of pullups = sore joints dont overlook the value of Cissus
 
SMOKEPALADIN

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Also you might want to try megadosing BCAA's , I always find that to work well with tons of cardio- strength gains.
 

PumpingIron

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Also you might want to try megadosing BCAA's , I always find that to work well with tons of cardio- strength gains.

I like the BCAA idea. I think if you were to take anything at all to help you it would be BCAAs and CEE
 
glg

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The problem with using the idea of supplementation to achive the magic #20 is that when you are in Basic you will need to continue to achieve those #s. Yes in the initial weeks you will be broken down the built back up but you will definitely not have access to any supplementation. I know I am considered Old Corps enlisted but we weren't even allowed a mulivitamin. I don't know what Basic school will be like but I'm sure it hasn't changed that much over the years.

Try as much as you can to achieve this target number under the conditions you will have to perform it.
 

PumpingIron

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The problem with using the idea of supplementation to achive the magic #20 is that when you are in Basic you will need to continue to achieve those #s. Yes in the initial weeks you will be broken down the built back up but you will definitely not have access to any supplementation. I know I am considered Old Corps enlisted but we weren't even allowed a mulivitamin. I don't know what Basic school will be like but I'm sure it hasn't changed that much over the years.

Try as much as you can to achieve this target number under the conditions you will have to perform it.

Good point, that didn't even cross my mind.
 
dsade

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dsade

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Yes...BCAAs, CEE, and beta-alanine would be great additions.
 
Vitruvian

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If I missed it already stated, sorry:

If you're carryin' any spare fat, Drop weight. That is by far the absolute easiest way to up pullup reps in a single set. Hands down.
 
pistonpump

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If I missed it already stated, sorry:

If you're carryin' any spare fat, Drop weight. That is by far the absolute easiest way to up pullup reps in a single set. Hands down.
I agree. I always noticed guys with smaller lower bodies do pullups easier. Any unneccassary fat needs to be drop so that you weight drops as well. I think mainly because of my body structure I have always had trouble with pull ups.
 
dsade

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Bearing in mind high dosed calcium on an empty stomach is not a fun thing to experience.
I find that the BCAAs are plenty to minimize unpleasant effects of the calcium.
 

wrkn4bigrmusles

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I agree with Lane, if you add supps u may inadvertenly<spelling> add bodyweight thus lowering your pullup number. being army we love our push-ups and sit ups... only way we get better is by doing them every day.. so go from there
 
Vitruvian

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I agree with Lane, if you add supps u may inadvertenly<spelling> add bodyweight thus lowering your pullup number. being army we love our push-ups and sit ups... only way we get better is by doing them every day.. so go from there
Agreed, but combined w/ the RIGHT supps, he won't really put on mass that'll weigh him down. Calcium and BCAA's will help with muscle preservation and contractile strength I believe, while he focuses on ridding any excess fat. Heck, calcium even helps in fat loss.
Military guys do absurd amounts of cardio as it is, so any fat lost is probably going to have to come from the diet.
 

Highlanda01602

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I find that the BCAAs are plenty to minimize unpleasant effects of the calcium.
Sorry, but this calcium dosing is new to me... what does it do to the body? Real interested in this now...
And what are the side effects? Cramping?
 
Vitruvian

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Sorry, but this calcium dosing is new to me... what does it do to the body? Real interested in this now...
And what are the side effects? Cramping?
There are no true side effects...... but if taken on an empty stomach, high dosed calcium causes stomach discomfort/nausea. For me personally, it's pretty bad. Easily avoided by ingesting something with the calcium. Dsade is recommendaing the use of BCAA's simultaneously. Sounds good to me, and Dsade knows his stuff.

Keep in mind: You are looking at a relatively short time frame to achieve your goal. You're looking to up endurance on a specific compound muscle movement. Not necessarily to increase strength. If you are carrying any excess fat, make the loss of it your goal. The pullups will come with it. Just think of it... how many can you do with your current bodyweight? How many can you do wearing a 15 lb. plate? Now think of how many you could potentially do if you dropped 15 lbs. off your current weight..............
 

Highlanda01602

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There are no true side effects...... but if taken on an empty stomach, high dosed calcium causes stomach discomfort/nausea. For me personally, it's pretty bad. Easily avoided by ingesting something with the calcium. Dsade is recommendaing the use of BCAA's simultaneously. Sounds good to me, and Dsade knows his stuff.

Keep in mind: You are looking at a relatively short time frame to achieve your goal. You're looking to up endurance on a specific compound muscle movement. Not necessarily to increase strength. If you are carrying any excess fat, make the loss of it your goal. The pullups will come with it. Just think of it... how many can you do with your current bodyweight? How many can you do wearing a 15 lb. plate? Now think of how many you could potentially do if you dropped 15 lbs. off your current weight..............
It's good to know that the most common downside is nausea.. but I still have no idea what the calcium is for.

Does calcium pre-workout increase endurance? Strength? Cadio capacity?


And yes, I could definetly lose more fat. Definetly working on that, but I'm going slow with it as I ran into a nasty problem when I first started dieting around two months ago.
Unforuntely, when I first started dieting, I just ate less. I was still getting protein, but most likely not enough of it and I cut out too many carbs and fats. I went from around 218 to my current weight of 197, but I lost a lot of strength. At 218 I did 10 pullups, and even at 197 I'm struggling to hit 11.
Really sucks how I lost so much strength.. first time dieting and I just did a terrible job! My 3-mile time went down and my crunches went up, but my pullups didn't change despite dropping ~20 pounds so far.
Hopefully though I can drop another good 10 pounds of fat, and even off around 185, with under 10 bodyfat. That would definetly be cool.
 

jdev

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You definately don't need Symmetry and Powerfull at the same time.
The people at USP say that it really isn't necessary.

I would probably just use
ALRI JW
ALRI Restore

and if you want
E-Bol, Mass FX or X-Factor
Cissus RX
The cissus will be good b/c of the joint problems x-factor causes.

Since you're in college, (21 or 22?) Fenotest won't really be of help. Most people say that Ecdysten/E-Bol is better than anagen.
 
pistonpump

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Since you're in college, (21 or 22?) Fenotest won't really be of help. Most people say that Ecdysten/E-Bol is better than anagen.
Yeah and about twice the price. I guess the thermolife ecy products are better if you got the $$$ but the gitcha big gitcha hard stack is pretty cheap IMO.
 
jmh80

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Yeah - a freaking $40 or $50 supp is a piece of junk IMO.
 

gymrat81

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Pull Ups like push ups come pretty fast, you just have to do them. If possible try doing 3 sets to failure, 3 times per day. I guarantee that you'll pick up 3 reps per week. You should be at 20 reps within 3 to 4 weeks easy.
 
dsade

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Calcium is integral for muscle contraction...let me try and find the thread at M&M.
 

Highlanda01602

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Calcium is integral for muscle contraction...let me try and find the thread at M&M.
Ahh, I see.... well sort of at least. Would you recommend taking it *every* time I hit the gym? Along with the BCAA's, dosed at 600mg?

Thanks
 
Kam

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I would, I really liked my Gitcha big stack anagen/fenotest/cissusrx addition. I know if I was going into the military I might consider teh dark side if not mega dosing natural boosters. The one time in life were fitness and ability means life or death and I would drop all my coin on supps. That's me and I like to get a legs up.

Good luck, I would recommend bcaa's calcium once or twice a day, eat clean and often and keep up your calcium, see how much is in ur multi vitamin. Also up your water intake and fibourous foods.

Start off with the usp labs powerfull/cissusrx stack with a good stim like amp from ergopharm and you'll be money. any green tea extract will help increase metabolism.

GL, thanks for serving.
 

Highlanda01602

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You definately don't need Symmetry and Powerfull at the same time.
The people at USP say that it really isn't necessary.

I would probably just use
ALRI JW
ALRI Restore

and if you want
E-Bol, Mass FX or X-Factor
Cissus RX
The cissus will be good b/c of the joint problems x-factor causes.

Since you're in college, (21 or 22?) Fenotest won't really be of help. Most people say that Ecdysten/E-Bol is better than anagen.

I appreciate everyones input.

jdev, right now I think I'm going to go with a ALRI JW + Powerfull + Anagen stack. Might throw in the green tea extract. Is there a reason why you recommended ALRI Restore along with the JW? I looked somewhat into it, and people are using Restore in PCT from JW. Is that even necessary? I mean it's non hormonal.
 
prld2gr8ns

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Your stack idea looks pretty solid. I think most people us restore after a ph/ps cycle as it's built more as an overall pct supp. JW-they bill as a solo muscle builder. Combining the two could have some synergy as they effect the same pathways thru diff ingredients and such(I don't really know might have to try it myself in the future).

Restore
6 bromo for preventive estrogen conversion
Avena for SHBG and freeing test
Mbaet for cortisol control.

JW
ADED for decreased estrogen circulation
Divanil for SHBG and freeing test
mormordica for increased androgen receptor sensativity and insulinogenic properties.
 
Aeternitatis

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Here is the supplements I have been contemplating on "cycling" for the 5-week period.
X-Factor (Or another AA product)
Symmetry
ALRI Jungle War
USPLabs PowerFULL
Anagen
Fenotest/test booster

I would like to stack a few of them, but I am unsure which work well together. Or, as a different question, which are safe together, with lots of cardio in mind.

Thanks
Given your goals, I'd recommend this:

X-factor + PowerFULL or Anagen

I personally wouldn't go with the other supps given the nature of your situation. The most important thing will be your training. Look up GTG or Greasing the Gear training. That'll be your best bet at boosting pullup ability. You really shouldn't rely on some supplement stack.

And the calcium suggestion by dsade is good. Look for a calcium chelate made by Albion (various companies carry it).
 

GaiaN

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Not to be rude to anyone here. You all have some great insight, but in all reality... It just doesn't sound like the guy has a solid workout regimine, or he's not used to pushing himself. If you really wanted to win then you would push yourself as hard as it takes to do it.

If he follows all the advice here he'll be good to go, but if you don't put in the blood and sweat then all the suppliments in the world aren't going to get you there. If all you're looking for is just 20 pull ups. Then just do them. EVERYDAY. as many as you can. It's not like you're going to overtrain yourself doing pullups...

Good luck on your goal to becomming an Officer. Just remember that all you need is to believe in yourself and keep perfect form and tempo in any exercise you do, and you'll overcome any plateau.
 
Ziricote

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From what you're saying it sounds like you need to work on isolated exercises aswell as pull-ups, in the same way you might train the weak link in your squats to help gain overall squat strength.
 
jmh80

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Gaian,
I get what you are saying - and agree.
But - he did ask the question. We've over-run quite a few threads here by only telling noobs just what you said.

Sometimes just answering the question is OK - but, yes a disclaimer as your post should be used as well.
 

GaiaN

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Thanks for being cool jmh, I suppose my response would have been a little different if he wasn't emphasising the pull ups as much as he did. I think if he talked about his whole training regimen, I would have been a bit more empathetic to his situation.
 
Big BAMA

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I like Jet11's Ideas. They have worked for me in the past. The chin-up bar in the doorway is right on. You have to do them to improve them.
Also Good Luck with the USMC.
I was gonna be a marine but my head wouldn't fit in the jar.
I had to settle for Airborne and Ranger School.
 

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