my new program, unconventional
- 10-23-2006, 06:40 PM
- 10-23-2006, 06:45 PM
- 5'8" 190 lbs.
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
Do have any scientific backing, stating that the overhead press is the overall best marker for strength gains?
- 10-23-2006, 06:51 PM
- 5'11" 187 lbs.
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
Deadlift would be a better indicator of strength gains, or some type of olympic lift.
10-23-2006, 08:13 PM
i stated that "i feel" the overhead was best, i did not make a definitive statement that it was. To me deadlift as a compound movement and oly lifts as well have too many factors which could impact a 1 rep max such as when did i last lift legs or back, what is my energy at the time , was my technique as pure as the last lift, etc.. to me the brute act of pressing the long bar straight over my head leaves little room for any of the above factors to impact the result just mho
10-23-2006, 08:19 PM
- 5'8" 190 lbs.
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
No offense man, but isn't the overhead press a compound movement to?
10-23-2006, 10:37 PM
everything is relative. one could say walking is a compound movement. picking ones nose, curls, even isolation movements could be considered compound depending on what your definition is. to me shoulder press, without using leg drive is 70 percent shoulder girdle, to include upper back, and 30 percent tricep, of course one could look at all the stabilizer muscles involved , the gripping, the forearms and ad nauseum and call it a compound movement.
10-24-2006, 04:18 PM
Eh, I didn't see much in the papers....just this one when I searched for "agaricus and testosterone".
White button mushroom phytochemicals inhibit aromatase activity and breast cancer cell proliferation.Grube BJ, Eng ET, Kao YC, Kwon A, Chen S.
Division of Immunology, Beckman Research Institute of the City of Hope, Duarte, CA 91010, USA.
Estrogen is a major factor in the development of breast cancer. In situ estrogen production by aromatase/estrogen synthetase in breast cancer plays a dominant role in tumor proliferation. Because natural compounds such as flavones and isoflavones have been shown to be inhibitors of aromatase, it is thought that vegetables that contain these phytochemicals can inhibit aromatase activity and suppress breast cancer cell proliferation. Heat-stable extracts were prepared from vegetables and screened for their ability to inhibit aromatase activity in a human placental microsome assay. The white button mushroom (species Agaricus bisporus) suppressed aromatase activity dose dependently. Enzyme kinetics demonstrated mixed inhibition, suggesting the presence of multiple inhibitors or more than one inhibitory mechanism. "In cell" aromatase activity and cell proliferation were measured using MCF-7aro, an aromatase-transfected breast cancer cell line. Phytochemicals in the mushroom aqueous extract inhibited aromatase activity and proliferation of MCF-7aro cells. These results suggest that diets high in mushrooms may modulate the aromatase activity and function in chemoprevention in postmenopausal women by reducing the in situ production of estrogen.
PMID: 11739882 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
And then this one,
Insulin-releasing and insulin-like activity of Agaricus campestris (mushroom).Gray AM, Flatt PR.
School of Biomedical Sciences, University of Ulster, Coleraine, UK.
Agaricus campestris (mushroom) has been documented as a traditional treatment for diabetes. Here the administration of mushroom in the diet (62.5 g/kg) and drinking water (2.5 g/l) countered the hyperglycaemia of streptozotocin-diabetic mice. An aqueous extract of mushroom (1 mg/ml) stimulated 2-deoxyglucose transport (2.0-fold), glucose oxidation (1.5-fold) and incorporation of glucose into glycogen (1.8-fold) in mouse abdominal muscle. In acute 20 min tests, 0.25-1 mg/ml aqueous extract of mushroom evoked a stepwise 3.5- to 4.6-fold stimulation of insulin secretion from the BRIN-BD11 pancreatic B-cell line. This effect was abolished by 0.5 mM diazoxide and prior exposure to extract did not affect subsequent stimulation of insulin secretion by 10 mM L-alanine, thereby negating a detrimental effect on cell viability. The effect of extract was potentiated by 16.7 mM glucose, L-alanine (10 mM) and IBMX (1 mM), and a depolarising concentration of KCl (25 mM) did not augment the insulin-releasing activity of mushroom. Activity of the extract was found to be heat stable, acetone soluble and unaltered by exposure to alkali, but decreased with exposure to acid. Dialysis to remove components with molecular mass < 2000 Da caused a 40% reduction in activity. Sequential extraction with solvents revealed insulin-releasing activity to be greatest in polar fractions. Lack of haemagglutinin activity with extract activity indicated that activity was unlikely to be due to a lectin-mediated event. These results demonstrate the presence of antihyperglycaemic, insulin-releasing and insulin-like activity in A. campestris.
PMID: 9659289 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Lots of papers on immune system activity, both good and bad.
I don't see the basis for it. (Except maybe for a light sautee in galic and butter) :-)
10-24-2006, 06:54 PM
sounds good..good luckOriginally Posted by emiliozapata
10-25-2006, 04:59 PM
as an update i ordered the Avena as well as some turkey tail mushroom extract which i found in the literature to be strongly AI as well , i got the bottle for 11 bucks and it should last me about a month if high dosed.
i also ordered some Youth Tissue Extract which is similar to humanafort yet better i feel and significantly higher dosed at 400mg per pill.
after all the discussion about 1 rep max with shoulder press, i decided to just stick with my scheduled chest and tri workout and hit 245 for 5 clean reps, a sixth was nowhere near, so additional reps over 5 at 245 will now be my marker for gains.
i believe i am also going to add bulk nettle root in my program for more shbg depression since i will begin to add the turkey mushroom extract once it arrives.
so basically i am at 2 or more oz, fresh agaricus mushroom
avena sativa mega dosed bulk herb
turkey tail mushroom extract per bottle
bulk nettle root mega dosed
will report back with findings soon
10-27-2006, 11:07 PM
Did you do any bloodwork to confirm if your test levels change?
Also, ATD pills and andro bulk powder is pretty cheap from Nutraplanet.
10-28-2006, 01:30 PM
rhyalus, i was hoping tp stay away from the atd due to the libido issues and was really hoping to go a more "natural" route if at all possible just inducing long term shifts towards anabolism in my body and less cyclical in nature.
as an update in my studies i determined that the research shows the effective dose to be 100 grams of white button mushroom consumption which works out to roughly 4 ounces of mushrooms as opposed to the 2 i have been consuming
so far i have no evidence of any direct changes by the plan, however i feel that 2 weeks will be the minimum to notice any positives
10-31-2006, 09:13 PM
as an update , i have stuck with eating the mushrooms consistently now for 7 days straight today made the eight, upping the dosage to 4 oz per day for last 4 days, today i got my order of the adjunct supplements and began them.
at this point i can only say that my workout tonight was quite nice and although i did nothing to really measure changes i know that i "felt stronger" than what i should have based on how physically tired i was going into the gym. Honestly have also felt on edge for the last 2-3 days, could be the amount of hours i worked combined with the resultant lack of sleep, could be placebo or could be the shrooms, friday i will be looking to rep the 245 flat bench for a marker of gains, then i will update. if i can push more than five i will be able to say definitively i gained strength
10-31-2006, 09:34 PM
interesting......didnt know that maxing out on oz's of schrooms would make you stronger.....i was under the impression that about a gram and a half would make you trip balls
11-07-2006, 06:25 PM
todays update- today was 2 full weeks of consuming the mushrooms, which i have been jacking up to anywhere between 4 to 8 oz per day, and one full week on the complementary bulk herbs of avena and nettle along with the Youth Tissue Extract. i trained my chest twice in that time frame prior to tonight using bodyweight workout only, no weighted bench pressing. Tonight i benched and used the 245 for reps.
if u recall my starting performance with this weight was 4 clean one with just a touch of spotter help but essentially five reps. Tonight i hit 7 clean strong reps with zero spotter work on the seventh. There is no doubt in my mind that this program is working for me, this is a clear increase in strength.
till next update god bless and stay safe
11-21-2006, 08:29 PM
evening folks today marked on full month on the shrooms , 3 full weeks on the adjuncts. i benched again tonight with the 245 and got 8 clean reps and a ninth with much spotter assistance. This marks a doubling of my initial effort in one months time.
I will run the program for one more month and although i dont expect to again double my results i hope to hit 12 reps by the end of the next month.
i will say it is becoming a chore to eat the shrooms everyday , definitely getting old. The affects seem to be reducing lately as far as the attitude and the oily skin and such but still somewhat present.
an interesting developement is that within the last week i have begun having vivid dreams when i sleep and a definite extreme pump during my last 3 workouts which i feel may be attributed to the hgh releasing effects of the youth tissue extract. I will begin to lower my dose to 1200 mg per day from 1600mg and for the third bottle and maintenance thereafter 800mg per day, which will make it much more economical.
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