New Stack... Opinions?

[AZ JB]

Alright, after much research and discussion I have decided on my new stack. Just tell me your thoughts on the supps and the stack itself.

ALRI Jungle Warfare
AX Phera-Plex (stacking with JW 1pp/day for 3 weeks)
Controlled Labs White Blood
Controlled Labs Green Bulge
Controlled Labs Black Whole
Dymatize Z-Force
BSN NO-Xplode
Maca
5-HTP
Universal Nutrition Genesis ATP Vitamin Packs

I have Cissus RX and Powerfull but Im not sure they would be a good idea with this current setup, however I am open to opinions.

I am also wondering what type of post cycle therapy I would need to be run, if any. I am thinking probably some Nolva, but Im not sure considering the only thing I am taking that seems it would have the greatest chance of causing a negative side effect would be Phera Plex and Im only taking that at 10mg a day. But again, please feel free to suggest. Thanks all.

 

[blahblah192]

Way to many supps. Go with multi/protein/creatine/test booster/nitric oxide product. Don't run the powerfull and cissus with it either unless that is for your test booster.

 

[pistonpump]

that is alot of supps but i dont think it is too much. definately leave the list as is and dont add. maybe take out the no-xplode.

Why are you taking the 5HTP?

You still should use 2 weeks of nolva and ATD 2 weeks after. Then you could throw in the cissus/pfull stack. Im using the Zforce now for PCT and its so cheap i dont see a problem using it in the stack, but i think it is better for after.

Jungle Warfare Phera Plex stack sounds interesting...

I also dont think you need the Maca while on the stack because libido shouldnt be an issue. Save that for after too.

How long are you planning on running it? if only one month then i would wait and think seriously about getting more supply to run 2months or more.

 

[AZ JB]

that is alot of supps but i dont think it is too much. definately leave the list as is and dont add. maybe take out the no-xplode.

Why are you taking the 5HTP?

You still should use 2 weeks of nolva and ATD 2 weeks after. Then you could throw in the cissus/pfull stack. Im using the Zforce now for post cycle therapy and its so cheap i dont see a problem using it in the stack, but i think it is better for after.

Jungle Warfare Phera Plex stack sounds interesting...

I also dont think you need the Maca while on the stack because libido shouldnt be an issue. Save that for after too.

How long are you planning on running it? if only one month then i would wait and think seriously about getting more supply to run 2months or more.

It does seem like a lot.. but when I broke it down it seemed to be somewhat logical for what each does.

To answer your questions though, I take the 5-HTP to assist with sleep and mood. I have liked it and took it during my PP/superdrol stack. I will definitely get the nolva, however which ATD would you think to be best?

I'm using the Z-Force because I have read very positive things about it and I need a ZMA product.

I wanted to take the Maca because of the MASSIVE shutdown I had during my PP/superdrol stack and I don't want it to happen again. I figure better safe then sorry.

I plan on running this stack for 3-4 weeks and seeing what results I get. I haven't seen anyone do it before so I would rather do it carefully as to not damage my health.

I do need to pick up some vitamin B-5 to help with the oily skin that PP causes though.

I am also anxious to see if this Black Whole supp works. I took one today as instructed but it hasn't changed my appetite at all. Maybe after a few days I'll feel more hungry.

In the meantime continue to comment and question. I enjoy the opinions and replies, they help me to learn more from all of you that know so much out there =). Thanks everyone.

 

[HairyLarry35]

AZ JB, do me a favor and keep a log on this. I'm interested to track your progress. If you can, could you give us the stanard report? (a few times weekly updated, bf% updates, occassional pics to track progess, if any.)

Good luck and I hope you log this!

HL

 

[pistonpump]

It does seem like a lot.. but when I broke it down it seemed to be somewhat logical for what each does.

To answer your questions though, I take the 5-HTP to assist with sleep and mood. I have liked it and took it during my PP/superdrol stack. I will definitely get the nolva, however which ATD would you think to be best?

I'm using the Z-Force because I have read very positive things about it and I need a ZMA product.

I wanted to take the Maca because of the MASSIVE shutdown I had during my PP/superdrol stack and I don't want it to happen again. I figure better safe then sorry.

I plan on running this stack for 3-4 weeks and seeing what results I get. I haven't seen anyone do it before so I would rather do it carefully as to not damage my health.

I do need to pick up some vitamin B-5 to help with the oily skin that PP causes though.

I am also anxious to see if this Black Whole supp works. I took one today as instructed but it hasn't changed my appetite at all. Maybe after a few days I'll feel more hungry.

In the meantime continue to comment and question. I enjoy the opinions and replies, they help me to learn more from all of you that know so much out there =). Thanks everyone.

Good idea with the maca. Run that and the Zforce throughout and post cycle.

B-5 def. works. I posted and article called pantothenic acid and acne check it out. you can buy from nutraplanet too but you have to cap em.

Nolva 40mg 1 week 20mg next
start something like RXT the 2nd week and taper up then down. Right now im on week 2 of my PCT from PP trn cycle. I just started taking 1 RXT a day. Im going to run it inverse to SERM like Dr. D says.

The Black Hole will probably take a few days to start working or not...never tried.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Personally here's my own opinion...I find this new trend of both mega dosing and kitchen sinkitis to be a bit disturbing. We have threads from guys on steroids asking why they haven't gained after two cycles. We have guys asking what happens when their nipples are exploding. We have guys needing to know some of the basics AFTER they have begun to swallow or inject truck loads of chemicals into their bodies.

Supplements used in bulk are fine, I guess, if you've reached your limits and need an extra edge. This does not mean they don't work or are useless. However, swallowing 30+ pills a day and being in the shape most of us are in is unnecissary.

Have you ran these supps by themselves first to see what kind of reactions your body sees from them? For example, if you start taking all these but your stomach get tore up or you get blood pressure issues or your prostate starts to enlarge. What do you stop taking? Do you come off the whole stack wasting tons of money?

While listening to reviews and opinions on the 'net is a great start and very helpful it still, in the end, your body and health. Will you know these people in 50 years, 30 years, 10 years? Think of your health first. Both long and short term and realize that taking it a bit slower will not bring your world to a halt and I can damn near guarentee that no matter the amount of supps you take, you're not going to become Arnold in 45 days or less. Even Arnold didn't become Arnold in that time frame.

 

[AZ JB]

AZ JB, do me a favor and keep a log on this. I'm interested to track your progress. If you can, could you give us the stanard report? (a few times weekly updated, bf% updates, occassional pics to track progess, if any.)

Good luck and I hope you log this!

HL

Absolutely.. I'll do my best on all of your requests.

First let me give some background. I did a PP/Superdrol stack back in Jan-March. I went from 184 - ~215. I maintained 205-207 for 2 months, and started working midnights. As soon as my shift changed to midnights, EVERYTHING changed. I found it near impossible to get into a gym, my body was so tired after work that I could barely stay away on my drive home. Eating was next to impossible because half the time the city was falling apart and I didn't get a lunch. Needless to say, the weight basically disappeared. I've dropped back down again. I was weighing in at 178 2 weeks ago when I first started back in the gym. Since then I have gotten up to 183 as of today. I have trained my body to the schedule I am on and been able to successfully maintain a consistent workout schedule and eating schedule. My goal is to continue this and see where it takes me.

I started the stack today (minus the PP). I did back/biceps and had an excellent workout. I know I have lost a SUBSTANTIAL amount of strength, however that is to be expected with my absence from the gym. I can definitely say though that I felt much stronger today and less fatigued than I have in recent workouts. Tomorrow I will hit legs or chest depending on how I feel (leaning towards legs). I will update as much as possible with workouts. I'll also take some pics and try to figure out how to upload them (never done it before) as soon as possible.

Anything else please feel free to ask. =)

 

[Jayhawkk]

Just to add to what you've just posted. Get back into the gym naturally and find your groove and calorie and training limits and set your goals. It seems the loss of your previous gains were due to lifestyle changes. Fix that first before attempting to bandage it with supps. IMHO of course.

 

[AZ JB]

Personally here's my own opinion...I find this new trend of both mega dosing and kitchen sinkitis to be a bit disturbing. We have threads from guys on steroids asking why they haven't gained after two cycles. We have guys asking what happens when their nipples are exploding. We have guys needing to know some of the basics AFTER they have begun to swallow or inject truck loads of chemicals into their bodies.

Supplements used in bulk are fine, I guess, if you've reached your limits and need an extra edge. This does not mean they don't work or are useless. However, swallowing 30+ pills a day and being in the shape most of us are in is unnecissary.

Have you ran these supps by themselves first to see what kind of reactions your body sees from them? For example, if you start taking all these but your stomach get tore up or you get blood pressure issues or your prostate starts to enlarge. What do you stop taking? Do you come off the whole stack wasting tons of money?

While listening to reviews and opinions on the 'net is a great start and very helpful it still, in the end, your body and health. Will you know these people in 50 years, 30 years, 10 years? Think of your health first. Both long and short term and realize that taking it a bit slower will not bring your world to a halt and I can damn near guarentee that no matter the amount of supps you take, you're not going to become Arnold in 45 days or less. Even Arnold didn't become Arnold in that time frame.

I actually agree with what you said. Your post is very wise and I appreciate the concern. I have taken some of the supps in this stack before and ones similar to the others. I have run into the issues you have described as well, hence the reason I will never use Superdrol again and I am trying to sell it. I do understand where you are coming from and I very much thank you for the post. I definitely do NOT want to be Arnold, nor do I want to be huge. I do however want to grab an edge both in the gym and on the street. I want to be stronger and healthier. I have been reading and trying to do as much research as possible on everything I am taking, especially after using Superdrol. I know nothing replaces eating and protein. I just want to add a little something to boost my results. If it works, great, if not, then I have learned more about my body. I try my hardest to know what I am taking before I take it. I know I might end up learning the hard way. I am hoping that this stack though is as safe in my body as it appears to be on paper.

Again thank you for your post, it is very true and appreciated.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Anytime. We're all here for the same reason. According to the press we are all crazed AS using freaks so we have to take care of our own

 

[somewhatgifted]

Anytime. We're all here for the same reason. According to the press we are all crazed AS using freaks so we have to take care of our own

Im here for the free supps..... oh .. right... hehe .... AS.. yeah.

 

[pistonpump]

i agree totally with my idol Jayhawwk the candy ass! lol. You should get back to the gym natural with protien and get back in the grove. When you feel your strength has come back and you are comfortable working out again then do the stack. Jayhawwk besides all of his joking on the boards, he is actually knowledgable, believe it or not! hahaha.

Get back in the groove first that is the best advice i can give.

 

[Werewolf]

I have to admit you have even me confused.

Sounds like you are doing this already, but starting the Jungle Warfare early for a few weeks to let your balls grow and your testerone levels rise before you starting the PP cycle is good. You can then carry this into the PP cycle. I just did this with a NHA stack (similar to Jungle Warfare). I was able to keep the ball size up through the first two weeks until I stopped the NHA stack. I think my testosterone output was still up, but no way to know for sure without blood tests.

 

[CHAPS]

I dunno about you guys but i'm a crazedAS using freak, lol

 

[Jayhawkk]

And you're a biiig *****!

 

[AZ JB]

I have to admit you have even me confused.

Sounds like you are doing this already, but starting the Jungle Warfare early for a few weeks to let your balls grow and your testerone levels rise before you starting the PP cycle is good. You can then carry this into the PP cycle. I just did this with a NHA stack (similar to Jungle Warfare). I was able to keep the ball size up through the first two weeks until I stopped the NHA stack. I think my testosterone output was still up, but no way to know for sure without blood tests.

So are you suggesting NOT starting the PP right now. Wait til maybe next week or the week after and just do the stack minus the PP for this time?

What are others' thoughts on this idea?

I haven't started the PP yet, so this is definitely still an option.

 

[jasonschaffin]

Never used either before but I see no point in taking Jungle Warfare and PP at the same time. Jungle Warfare is gonna up your test and free test and supposedly has an SARM. PP is gonna help you build muscle while stopping your body from producing test. If I were you I would do the supps you already have minus the PP and use it later or use the PP and then use the other supps to help out in post cycle therapy. JW seems a great addition to a SERM in PCT Basically to me it seems like your spending a lot of money on JW just for the SARM which although it seems to work I have seen no literature on and we know the AI and Divanil in it will work alone.

 

[thesinner]

I think I'm gonna post this link everytime I see one of these threads:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/48829-thesinners-1st-law.html?highlight=thermodynamics

 

[Werewolf]

So are you suggesting NOT starting the PP right now. Wait til maybe next week or the week after and just do the stack minus the PP for this time?

What are others' thoughts on this idea?

I haven't started the PP yet, so this is definitely still an option.

Yes

It takes a couple weeks for a NHA stack or Jungle Warfare cycle to really get going. I can get about 1 pound a week out of it then.

Yes, PP is suppressive. My guess is it takes about 35mgs of ADT to nutralize about 20mgs of PP suppression. Phera-plex is very low on the suppressive scale.

You would have translate that to Jungle Warfare.

 

[jasonschaffin]

Yes

It takes a couple weeks for a NHA stack or Jungle Warfare cycle to really get going. I can get about 1 pound a week out of it then.

Yes, PP is suppressive. My guess is it takes about 35mgs of ADT to nutralize about 20mgs of PP suppression. Phera-plex is very low on the suppressive scale.

You would have translate that to Jungle Warfare.

Can you "neutralize" suppression? I think I have read some exogenous hormones are easier to come back from then others but never heard of being able to stop suppression. And since it is suppressive wouldn't it still make more sense to use the JW in PCT as it raises test levels and lowers SHBG.

 

[Werewolf]

Can you "neutralize" suppression? I think I have read some exogenous hormones are easier to come back from then others but never heard of being able to stop suppression. And since it is suppressive wouldn't it still make more sense to use the JW in post cycle therapy as it raises test levels and lowers SHBG.

JW in post cycle is good thing.

 

[AZ JB]

Never used either before but I see no point in taking Jungle Warfare and PP at the same time. Jungle Warfare is gonna up your test and free test and supposedly has an SARM. PP is gonna help you build muscle while stopping your body from producing test. If I were you I would do the supps you already have minus the PP and use it later or use the PP and then use the other supps to help out in post cycle therapy. JW seems a great addition to a SERM in post cycle therapy Basically to me it seems like your spending a lot of money on JW just for the SARM which although it seems to work I have seen no literature on and we know the AI and Divanil in it will work alone.

This may be a dumb question, however I would rather ask it and gain the knowledge. If Jungle Warfare will increase my test production, and PP will stop that production do they cancel each other out? And if so, does this mean I should be able to increase my gains without decreasing natural test production because of the opposite action on my test production?

And I apologize, I have never heard of a SARM?

Thanks for the info. Holding off on the PP might be my best course of action after hearing everyone's take on it.

 

[RenegadeRows]

This may be a dumb question, however I would rather ask it and gain the knowledge. If Jungle Warfare will increase my test production, and PP will stop that production do they cancel each other out? And if so, does this mean I should be able to increase my gains without decreasing natural test production because of the opposite action on my test production?

And I apologize, I have never heard of a SARM?

Thanks for the info. Holding off on the PP might be my best course of action after hearing everyone's take on it.

SERM, not SARM.

You should hold off on PP. It seems like you don't understand the mechanism it works by. PP will stop your testosterone production, because it is a synethic hormone that replaces it. JW will do nothing while on PP, you might as well be eating tic tacs.

Unless you are ready for the world of steroids (understanding Post cycle therapy, support supplements, potential hazards) then I would put the Pheraplex away for a while.

 

[jasonschaffin]

SERM, not SARM.

You should hold off on PP. It seems like you don't understand the mechanism it works by. PP will stop your testosterone production, because it is a synethic hormone that replaces it. JW will do nothing while on PP, you might as well be eating tic tacs.

Unless you are ready for the world of steroids (understanding Post cycle therapy, support supplements, potential hazards) then I would put the Pheraplex away for a while.

Actually the JW supposedly contains a SARM, selective androgen receptor modulator. It is an extract from the same compound that gives it insulin like properties. Can't recall it now though. SERM, AI, Divanil, and SARM sounds unbeatable in PCT though.

 

[AZ JB]

SERM, not SARM.

You should hold off on PP. It seems like you don't understand the mechanism it works by. PP will stop your testosterone production, because it is a synethic hormone that replaces it. JW will do nothing while on PP, you might as well be eating tic tacs.

Unless you are ready for the world of steroids (understanding Post cycle therapy, support supplements, potential hazards) then I would put the Pheraplex away for a while.

I've done quite a bit of research on the PP. I actually did a PP/SD cycle back in the beginning of the year. I was very successfull with them, as well as with my PCT. I had bloodwork done and reported everything including all details as to results and supplements during my PCT on the forums.

JW/PP was an idea. However, with all that I continue to hear, I think I am going to hold off on the PP portion due to the conflicts that seem possible with the stack.

 

[Werewolf]

I've done quite a bit of research on the PP. I actually did a PP/superdrol cycle back in the beginning of the year. I was very successfull with them, as well as with my post cycle therapy. I had bloodwork done and reported everything including all details as to results and supplements during my PCT on the forums.

JW/PP was an idea. However, with all that I continue to hear, I think I am going to hold off on the PP portion due to the conflicts that seem possible with the stack.

It is not really conflict, but is it worth it to do so. JW will keep bloat lower, keep Natty test & energy higher(longer), and give just a little higher gains.

I liked pushing my NHA two weeks into the PP cycle, but gains weren't higher since I was limiting food. I like feeling good. It is important to me. If gains are all you care about then it probably isn't worth it. JW pre and post cycle is a good idea.

 

[AZ JB]

Update

Hey all,

Just a quick update before I head to the gym.

I have been doing the best I can at this cycle with the work schedule I have. I can definitely say that my libido is up, however this could also be due to the fact that my gf has been away for almost a month and I haven't gotten any lol, but she is coming to visit tomorrow, so it should be interesting. Moving on though, strength is coming back quickly, Im seeing an increase in strength pretty much every week. Physique is coming back as well, however I have not weighed myself and refuse to do so for a few more weeks (confidence thing). Overall though the stack has been working well.

The Black Hole supp is hit and miss. Some days I feel like I can't get full, and others I can't finish a meal. Aside from that, all the supps seem to be contributing to some positive results. I'll keep everyone posted again as soon as more results show through.

Special thanks to all of you who read my thread and posted your opinions and suggestions. Your knowledge helps those of us who do not know AS much, feel more confident in training with the help of supplements. Thank you again.

God Bless.

-JB