Swole (or V12) and the heart

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    Swole (or V12) and the heart


    I've read scraps of threads here and there that suggest Swole and V12 may have a negative impact on cardiac tissue but I can't exactly remember what they were trying to get across.

    I'm wondering if anyone can clarify this for me since I am currently taking Swole and going to try V12 next. Thanks

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    i have heard that v12 will have long term effects on the heart because it does not contain a methylating agent, while others say the betaine is enough and will do just fine. i have heard nothing about swole and i dont see any problems with it. i have heard the taste wasnt great but the new swole v2 coming out soon will be superb and blow away v12. you may want to hold out on the v12 and take normal creatine or none at all til the new swole v2 comes out.

    i only found 1 study that used betaine in an experiment to test methylating. this is not enough research or specific research for that matter to put my longterm health and heart on the line. i would stick with normal creatine or swole for the mean time. 

    my questions are:

    1.what acts as a methylating agent that you can take with v12 (ive also heard SAN's loaded is even worse w/o its meth. agent) that can assure the safety of it?

    2. what does not having a methylating agent in a product really effect in the body? 

    here's that study, if it is of any use at all:

    Methylation-sensitive representational difference analysis and its application to cancer research.

    Kaneda A, Takai D, Kaminishi M, Okochi E, Ushijima T.


    Carcinogenesis Division, National Cancer Center Research Institute, Tokyo 104-0045, Japan.

    Methylation-sensitive representational difference analysis (MS-RDA) was previously established to detect differences in the methylation status of two genomes. This method uses the digestion of genomic DNA with a methylation-sensitive restriction enzyme, HpaII, and PCR to prepare "HpaII-amplicons," followed by RDA. An HpaII-amplicon prepared using betaine and reverse electrophoresis was enriched 3.6-fold (compared with the HpaII-amplicon prepared by the original method) with DNA fragments originating from CpG islands (CGIs). As for the specificity of MS-RDA, it was shown that DNA fragments that are unmethylated in the tester and almost completely methylated in the driver are efficiently isolated. This indicated that genes that are in biallelic methylation or in monoallelic methylation with loss of the other allele are efficiently isolated. Further, by use of two additional methylation-sensitive six-base recognition restriction enzymes, SacII and NarI, more DNA fragments were isolated from CGIs in the 5' regions of genes. After analysis of human lung, gastric, and breast cancers, 12 genes were seen to be silenced and additional genes seen to show decreased expression in association with methylation of genomic regions outside CGIs in the 5' regions of genes. MS-RDA is effective in identifying silenced genes in various cancers.
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    1. Betaine can be used as a methylating agent

    Betaine-homocysteine methyltransferase-2: cDNA cloning, gene sequence, physical mapping, and expression of the human and mouse genes.

    Chadwick LH, McCandless SE, Silverman GL, Schwartz S, Westaway D, Nadeau JH.

    Department of Genetics, Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine, Cleveland, Ohio 44106, USA.

    Anomalies in folate and homocysteine metabolism can result in homocysteinemia and are implicated in disorders ranging from vascular disease to neural tube defects. Two enzymes are known to methylate homocysteine, vitamin B(12)-dependent methionine synthase (MTR) and betaine-homocysteine methyltransferase (BHMT). BHMT uses betaine, an intermediate of choline oxidation, as a methyl donor and is expressed primarily in the liver and kidney. We report the discovery of a novel betaine-homocysteine methyltransferase gene in humans and mice. The human BHMT2 gene is predicted to encode a 363-amino-acid protein (40.3 kDa) that shows 73% amino acid identity to BHMT. The BHMT2 transcript in humans is most abundant in adult liver and kidney and is found at reduced levels in the brain, heart, and skeletal muscle. The mouse Bhmt2 gene shows 69% amino acid identity and 79% similarity to the mouse Bhmt gene and 82% amino acid identity and 87% similarity to the human BHMT2 gene. Bhmt2 is expressed in fetal heart, lung, liver, kidney and eye. The discovery of a third gene with putative homocysteine methyltransferase activity is important for understanding the biochemical balance in using methyltetrahydrofolate and betaine as methyl donors as well as the metabolic flux between folate and choline metabolism in health and disease. Copyright 2000 Academic Press.


    2. If you use it for extreme long peroids of time, anything is bad for you. If you cycle it like the products recommends, its perfectly safe.
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    many good studies and references in these, by Bobo of course. maybe help save him some time

    V-12, studies PT I

    V-12, studies PT II
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    off subject
    but why is everyone changing their names?
    Did that feature just come out?
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    I believe only Moderators and Administrators can change names...
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    Originally posted by Havok
    off subject
    but why is everyone changing their names?
    Did that feature just come out?
    nobody else really has that I'm aware of (although I could definitely think of a few names for some of you bastids! )... besides, I'm just more of a monosyllabic type o' fella
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    For those using V-12, you might want to try dunmping in about 50 or more grams of taurine.
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    Originally posted by RippedUp
    For those using V-12, you might want to try dunmping in about 50 or more grams of taurine.
    50 grams of taurine? Isn't that a little bit overboard buddy??....
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    Originally posted by Sheesh


    50 grams of taurine? Isn't that a little bit overboard buddy??....
    No, dude.

    V-12 is 50 servings. With 50g, you'd get 1g/serving or 2g/day, which isn't much..

    100g would be ideal, IMO.

    Thanks.
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    Originally posted by RippedUp
    For those using V-12, you might want to try dunmping in about 50 or more grams of taurine.
    the new swole v2 is sopose to have 3 or 4g of taurine per serving, i forgot i need to check out their board again.

    bobo thanks for that article bro. anyone know what other supplements can you take to act as a methylating agent ?
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    Originally posted by Sheesh
    I believe only Moderators and Administrators can change names...
    Yeah, sorry
    I was thrown off by C-Bizzle's changing name
    and then I saw "Biggs" like 5 mins after biz
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    Originally posted by ralph4u2c

    anyone know what other supplements can you take to act as a methylating agent ?
    Don't know if it was mentioned in the link (sorry I'm lazy) but TMG can be used as a methylating agent. It's easy to find and is available in caps.
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    thanks dio, ive been wondering about that for quite some time now.
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    glad to help
  

  
 

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