Poliquin's theory on glutamine instead of carbs PWO

JonesersRX7

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Has anyone read: http://bodyofscience.com/issues/summer_2005/pdfs/poliquin_summer2005.pdf on page 5 of the PDF.

WL: How do you feel about glutamine?

CP: I’ve used a lot of it. I use it with fat
guys as a substitute to replace glycogens after
a workout. I use about 60g post-workout.

WL:How do you feel about glutamine and
general intestinal health? Do you think it’s
overrated?

CP: No.When a guy can’t gain weight, a
quick cure is 80g of glutamine per day for a
few days. It helps them repair the gut lining
so they can absorb food better. I actually
like glutamine. I consider fat as anyone with
more than 10% body fat. Until they get to
10%, I only use whey protein, glycine and
glutamine post workout. If they get over
10%,we start using glutamine.

WL: Will you do no carbs during the whole
2 hour window post workout when you are
using glutamine?

CP: Correct.No carbs if you are fat.
I was just curious if anyone had ever tried this and does it make sense? I am thinking I need every bit of help I can to get me to singles for bf% this summer.
 
Apowerz6

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JONSERS IT WORKS!!! I have been employing glutamine since I got that mag at the Arnold bro... Poliquin is a nut to some, but his methods have got me great results, as he was one of the first people talking about carosine as he administers his through IV if you can afford his centers. Anyway I have no articles to back it up, just empty tubs of Xtend and walmarts glutamine I scored for 2bux for 66 4.5gram servings. No carb rush, is noted but you feel replenished its close to how I feel on Vitargo...
 

idunk42

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JONSERS IT WORKS!!! I have been employing glutamine since I got that mag at the Arnold bro... Poliquin is a nut to some, but his methods have got me great results, as he was one of the first people talking about carosine as he administers his through IV if you can afford his centers. Anyway I have no articles to back it up, just empty tubs of Xtend and walmarts glutamine I scored for 2bux for 66 4.5gram servings. No carb rush, is noted but you feel replenished its close to how I feel on Vitargo...
I'll definitely have to give this a try the next time I cut.
 
Apowerz6

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Its expensive unless you can get glutamine bulk. Actually ALRI suggests 50-100g of glutamine in CME and BTPB.
 
JonesersRX7

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Yeah I read this a while back but I wanted to post it up. I'm not sure if it's worth it though. I try it out at 80g to start out and then go from there.

All I know is that since I have been adding 1/2 to 1 cup of oats I was able to bulk up and add decent size but I seem to have trouble getting to a low bf% now and when I begin to cut here in 3 or so weeks I want to see if I can implement this.

Sheesh... just ran the numbers and it is expensive. 1000g at 80 grams will only last approx 13 days. Wonder what the lowest amount you can get away with is.
 
Max32

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Interesting, I might give this a try....sipping on BCAAs during workout, and utilizing around 25 grams of WPI and 50-60 grams of glutamine PWO
 
Apowerz6

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The BCAA + WPI during workout is great BRO, BEAST had me doing that. You have energy galore...
 

Scottyo

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why waste money on a expensive form of carbohydrate? we had this debate over at avant....the glutamine is just going to be used like any energy substrate. yes it won't spike insulin, but its post workout....your body is primed and ready. oatmeal is low GI enough for me, hell sometimes I will even go higher (relatively) GI.
If you really have tried a lot and still can't get lean, its time for UD2.0. Especially if your hovering around the 10% range.

just my 2 cents. but Id recommend anyone to check avant/mindandmuscle for the discussions on glutamine pwo.
 
Max32

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why waste money on a expensive form of carbohydrate? we had this debate over at avant....the glutamine is just going to be used like any energy substrate. yes it won't spike insulin, but its post workout....your body is primed and ready. oatmeal is low GI enough for me, hell sometimes I will even go higher (relatively) GI.
If you really have tried a lot and still can't get lean, its time for UD2.0. Especially if your hovering around the 10% range.

just my 2 cents. but Id recommend anyone to check avant/mindandmuscle for the discussions on glutamine pwo.
thanks for the heads up, funny, I actually mod over there...

I think I will give it a try after my cycle comes to an end. 40 grams Xtend during workout, but I will go with 30-40 grams of Glutamine ethyl ester and 25 grams WPI post workout. custom has got it for an affordable price, so I might give it a run for everyone....
 
JonesersRX7

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Cool deal Max. Def post up your thoughts in this thread or at least toss up a link in this thread with the outcome if you could please!

:thumbsup:
 
Jayhawkk

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You really have to keep up on theories in the nutrition/weight lifting world. every damn time I think i'm on the right track I find out there was a better/safer way of accomplishing that goal. That's why when I hear people saying they heard or read soemthing that gives positive results for something, I tell them to look around and research for a bit before jumping on the band wagon.
 
JonesersRX7

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Def good points to keep on the front of your mind Jay. Sometimes discussion is skeewed in a way so it seems that it works for everyone.

But seems that others have heard of it so I am glad I posted it.
 
Jayhawkk

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Most definately, I take any information I can and keep it for referencing. Just like this thread...I never turn away info :p
 
jecko29

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You really have to keep up on theories in the nutrition/weight lifting world. every damn time I think i'm on the right track I find out there was a better/safer way of accomplishing that goal. That's why when I hear people saying they heard or read soemthing that gives positive results for something, I tell them to look around and research for a bit before jumping on the band wagon.
That's excellent advice Jay :D

jecko
 
jonny21

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Glutamine supplemention is not necessary. When he talks about repairing the lining of the intestine to improve absorption he is off track for someone with no GI issues. To my knowledge, Glutamine has only been shown to be of benefit for endurance type athletes, burn victims, cancer patients and those with existing GI issues/damage. BTW, I believe most studies were done parenterally.
 
jmh80

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To me, this comes down to a economics exercise.

It costs a sh*tload for glutamine. It doesn't cost a sh*tload for oats or bagels (or whatever your carb source).
I'm betting your results with glutamine post-WO won't be a sh*tload better.
Hence, it most likely is not worth even attempting this unless you are walking around with $100 burning a hole in your pocket and you'd like to essentially throw it away.
 
JonesersRX7

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To me, this comes down to a economics exercise.

It costs a sh*tload for glutamine. It doesn't cost a sh*tload for oats or bagels (or whatever your carb source).
I'm betting your results with glutamine post-WO won't be a sh*tload better.
Hence, it most likely is not worth even attempting this unless you are walking around with $100 burning a hole in your pocket and you'd like to essentially throw it away.
I agree with you on the dollar/cost averaging for supplementation. How do you know that the $1.50 bucks a day for glutamine is worth it.

I wouldn't go as far as a hundred dollars for the cost though. An average price is $30 for a kilo which at 50g a day would last 20 days.

The point was/is of bringing this up, is why does he recommend it and what is the difference between 50g of Glutamine and 50g of rolled oats?
 
jonny21

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The point was/is of bringing this up, is why does he recommend it and what is the difference between 50g of Glutamine and 50g of rolled oats?
It is the difference between glycogen repletion from glucose via carbohydrates or gluconeogenesis with amino acids as a substrate.
 
jmh80

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Yeah - I forgot that guys like Custom sell glutamine. Back when I used to buy it (in like '99), I didn't know about the bulk internet stores.

I had to buy stuff at GNC - where it would cost me $100 for 2 months worth at 40-50 grams/day (if not more).
 
JonesersRX7

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It is the difference between glycogen repletion from glucose via carbohydrates or gluconeogenesis with amino acids as a substrate.
Thanks as always boss. "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jonny21 again."

;-)
 
anabolicrhino

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It is the difference between glycogen repletion from glucose via carbohydrates or gluconeogenesis with amino acids as a substrate.
It is also the difference between cellular membrane glycation and glutamine metabolising into glutamates.
I prefer the glycation from the carbs because there are many ways to stave off cellular death from glycation ( idebenone or coq12) Unfortunately glutamates pass the brain blood barrier and antagonize receptor sites in the limbric region of the brain which can(and in my case will) result in a slight dementia and possible mainia.So I am an oatmeal guy!...No MSG please!
 

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If Poliquin is correct why dont you just take in a whole bunch of Fre form aminos or WPI, becuase your body can make glycogen from proteen its just not an efficant process
 

njmuscle66

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I have always liked Poliquin's stuff. Though I dont use it in the qunatities spoken about-I have had great success with dosages of Extend in the 30-40 g per day
 
Dwight Schrute

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Dwight Schrute

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No, its the other way around.
 

meathead1987

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Or maybe this works because >80% of ingested glutamine actually gets converted to glucose in the glutamine-alanine cycle in the liver. Spend your cash on something else.
 
Dwight Schrute

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I think its funny anytime I see something like this:

"No. When a guy can’t gain weight, a
quick cure is"
 

meathead1987

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I agree, if u cant gain weight the obvious problem is a lacking diet.
 
Dwight Schrute

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You could find the study that used 1g/kg of weight and saw no differences.

If I megadosed anything it would be BCAA's but even then I never saw much difference than normal amounts other than gas.
 
Gokmog

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interesting thread. glutamine is expensive, no doubt, even at bulk prices. poliquin is intended for overweight people. from what i've read, from Lyle McDonald no less, is that roughly half of the common aminos (the kinds found in regular foods) have the ability to convert to glucose (gluconeogenic applicability). so, if a person doesn't have a problem with dairy proteins couldn't they just supplement with WPI or whatever cheap, fast protein they want to use?

glutamine seems to work well for cellular hydration and healing the gut. it also has insulinogenic capacity? (i forget if it is an insulin potentiator or insulinogenic) i have used it combined with proteins and carbs (egg protein and most often sucrose for me) for insulin boosting effect. i enjoy using glutamine for its strength. i feel stronger on it. for instance, when i've smoked some marijuana and had a little stimulant and then gone for a walk, i'll spike that with tyrosine (for dopamine) and glutamine. doesn't ingesting glutamine enhance detoxification ability?

also, i think that excitotoxicity is something to take note of. how much of a problem is this?

well, whatever the case, i understand that different bodies have different abilities (and i think energy metabolism and energy conservation and storage are to be considered abilities and not "diseases" in the case of people who have problems with adipose tissue) but wouldn't an abstemious inclusion of assorted stimulants and hypocaloric dieting, constant or staggered, cyclic or not, in the long-term override the replenishing of glycogen in the muskells? i know the people with "fat genes" have even more ability to adapt to less dietary energy, so judicious use of stimulants is usually okay.
 

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