Amazingly positive ephedra/caffeine study...

[the Cardinal]

...Involving 61 premenopausal women.

From the International Journal of Obesity:

1: Int J Obes (Lond). 2006 Mar 21; [Epub ahead of print]
[SIZE=+1]Multinutrient supplement containing ephedra and caffeine causes weight loss and improves metabolic risk factors in obese women: a randomized controlled trial.[/SIZE]

Hackman RM, Havel PJ, Schwartz HJ, Rutledge JC, Watnik MR, Noceti EM, Stohs SJ, Stern JS, Keen CL.

1Department of Nutrition, University of California, Davis, CA, USA.

Objective:To determine the safety and efficacy of a dietary supplement with a low dose of ephedra and caffeine in overweight/obese premenopausal female subjects.Design:A 9-month, double-blind, randomized control study compared the efficacy and safety of a dietary supplement with ephedra and caffeine to a control supplement.Subjects:Sixty-one healthy, premenopausal women with body mass index (BMI) from 27 to 39 kg/m(2) were randomly assigned and received a dietary supplement (40 mg/day ephedra alkaloids, 100 mg/day caffeine, high potency mixture of vitamins, minerals, omega-3 fatty acids) or a control supplement for 9 months.Measurements:Efficacy: changes in body weight, body composition, lipids, insulin, leptin, adiponectin, ghrelin, and self-reports of physical activity, diet and quality of life indices. Safety: blood pressure, heart rate, electrocardiograms, urinalysis, blood histology, serum chemistry measures and self-reported symptoms.Results:Forty-one women completed the study. The treatment group lost significantly more body weight (-7.18 kg) and body fat (-5.33 kg) than the control group (-2.25 and -0.99 kg, respectively), and showed significant declines in heart rate, serum cholesterol, triglycerides, cholesterol to high-density lipoprotein ratio, glucose, fasting insulin, and leptin. Blood pressure, electrocardiograms, other clinical chemistry measures, blood histology, urinalysis, and self-reported physical activity were similar in the groups. Minor symptoms included dry mouth, insomnia, nervousness and palpitations. The treatment group reported more energy and decreased appetite compared to controls and scored higher on a quality of life domain assessing vitality.Conclusion:A dietary supplement containing a low potency ephedra/caffeine mixture appeared safe and effective in causing loss of weight and body fat, and improving several metabolic parameters, including insulin sensitivity and lipid profiles when tested under physician supervision. Such supplements could be a useful tool to assist with weight loss.International Journal of Obesity advance online publication, 21 March 2006; doi:10.1038/sj.ijo.0803283.

PMID: 16552410 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

 

[CROWLER]

Yea the controle group was so hopped up on EC they were probably working out all the time so they lost weight lol


Actually I am going to show my wife this sounds good. Hey I really like EC maybe I am a premenopausal womam and didn't realize it.


CROWLER

 

[flytrapcan]

Hey where's the Aspirin? Nice of them to do a study to validate what we have known for so long.

Nice post, thanks.

 

[karategirl]

Its also nice to see the effects even though the dosage was pretty low. Show that we don't need to amp up to get results.

 

[CROWLER]

When they say 40 mg/day ephedra alkaloids So they mean 40mg of regular ephedra? If so that seems pretty high especially for a woman.

BTW I thought they found you didnt' need the asprin to get the same effects. Anyone?


CROWLER

 

[jjse1f]

When they say 40 mg/day ephedra alkaloids So they mean 40mg of regular ephedra? If so that seems pretty high especially for a woman.

BTW I thought they found you didnt' need the asprin to get the same effects. Anyone?


CROWLER

According to studies (pubmed) Aspirin is only effective in obese people. (if you really want them I should be able to find them rather quickly)

40mg alkaloids is the herb and not Ephedrine HCL. They should have put "40mg, standardized for X Epherdrine Hcl"

 

[CROWLER]

No that is ok about the studies thank you for the offer.

So how much Ephed HCL would that be any idea?


CROWLER

 

[jjse1f]

Unless the alkaloid breakdown is listed, then it is uncertain.

 

[snakebyte05]

Is 50mg ephedrine hcl to high for a women? Or what would be the high end dose a women could use? Better way of stating it, if the women can tolerate 50mg ephedrine hcl, would it hurt her to use it at that high?

 

[jjse1f]

Is 50mg ephedrine hcl to high for a women? Or what would be the high end dose a women could use? Better way of stating it, if the women can tolerate 50mg ephedrine hcl, would it hurt her to use it at that high?

When I start, I go with 25mg day and that is plenty.

I also don't think more is necessarily better.
Recommended dosage is 3x25mg hcl day with 200mg caffeine

If it was me, I would start her out on 12.5mg E Hcl with 100mg Caff. Then work your way up.

 

[jjse1f]

This is the best I could do for proof.

http://intl.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/2/624S

"Typical guidelines suggest no more than25 mg of ephedrine alkaloids per unit dose and no more than100 mg total ephedrine alkaloids daily."

"Ephedrine and related alkaloids are sympathomimetic agents that mimic epinephrine effects (81–83). Like other stimulants, they may cause adverse effects when used chronically and in sustained high doses (>100 mg/d), especially when overdosed. Nervousness, anxiety, heart palpitations, headaches, nausea, hyperthermia, hypertension, cardiac arrhythmias, and occasional deaths have occurred with ephedrine alkaloid overdoses (81–83). Dietary supplement products reported to the Food and Drug Administration as causing side effects have almost always contained large amounts of caffeine (150–300 mg per unit dose) (L Bucci, unpublished observations, 1997). Thus, particular caution must be exercised when consuming products containing both ephedrine alkaloids and caffeine."

 

[bioman]

I'd recommend chopping 25 mg ephedrine tabs into 4 peices for beginners and using the approximate 5mg dose 2 times a day to start with. As you build tolerance, throw in the 3rd dose..but no latter than 5 pm. Caffiene dose should also be low for beginners or small people and a cup of coffee or even tea can suffice.

There is absolutely no need to be cracked out on this stuff to have it work and it's people who mega dose E that have problems and get undo attention placed on the product's safety.

Camphibolic + EC has been the nicest fat burning stack I have ever used so far. I will try Custom's Omega Beta Thermo with EC soon.

 

[karategirl]

I take 75mg E and 600mg C a total day and I do fine on that, but I have a pretty high tollerance for stimulants. At 128lbs and female, it suits me just fine, but when I first started I was nowhere near that dose, it would send me wild

 

[flytrapcan]

I take 75mg E and 600mg C a total day and I do fine on that, but I have a pretty high tollerance for stimulants. At 128lbs and female, it suits me just fine, but when I first started I was nowhere near that dose, it would send me wild

God that is quite the dose, are you taking any breaks from it?

 

[karategirl]

Yeh, usually once a week I will lower that dose, but I do find that it gives me the extra push that I need in workouts.
I was a caffeine junkie before I started the stack, so stuff like that never bothered me before.
I come off it when I travel for work (a couple of times a month) as my workouts then are just lifting in the hotel gyms. I would not suggest this dose to someone just starting, but the question was asked so I answered.

 

[flytrapcan]

Yeh, usually once a week I will lower that dose, but I do find that it gives me the extra push that I need in workouts.
I was a caffeine junkie before I started the stack, so stuff like that never bothered me before.
I come off it when I travel for work (a couple of times a month) as my workouts then are just lifting in the hotel gyms. I would not suggest this dose to someone just starting, but the question was asked so I answered.

Coolio. I just love hotel gyms, it's great to get the opportunity to max out on 20 pounders , but wait.. there in the corner - removes the covering - A 30 yr old stepper!!!!:woohoo:

 

[karategirl]

Actually I'm pretty anal about my gyms, and I always pick my hotel based on the gym over anything else. Usually I get to stay at the upscale hotels, so I have not had a bad gym yet.

 

[snakebyte05]

My girl is on 50mgs of ephedrine with 400mgs caffeine a day and is doing fine. She has not had a problem yet and is only on it for 3 weeks. I was just making sure this was not outrageous since I saw that as a typical dose for many. She worked her way up in a matter of days and is on that doing fine. Gets her workouts in fine, doesn't have raised bloodpressure, so all seems well.

 

[Jeff]

Is pseudo-ephedrine (cold medicine) as effective as efferdrine/vasopro, or is there a good conversion factor?

 

[bpmartyr]

Is pseudo-ephedrine (cold medicine) as effective as efferdrine/vasopro, or is there a good conversion factor?

No and nope.

 

[Ubiquitous]

BTW I thought they found you didnt' need the asprin to get the same effects. Anyone?


CROWLER

ThinkBig posted this on one of my home boards.

aspirin is not "needed" per se' but it will increase it's effectiveness considerably...

remember that the body's negative feedback system activates to normalize the metabolism.

This is done via the production of phosphodiesterase inside the cells, and prostaglandins outside the cell, which both lower cAMP levels within the cell.

Caffeine inhibits the production of phospho-diester-ase inside the cell and therefore slows the C-AMP breakdown. It also, in binding with adenosine receptors in the brain, triggers the release of adrenaline which increases C-AMP levels further.

Aspirin inhibits prostaglandin production outside of the cells, which, in conjunction with caffeine, greatly prolongs the thermogenic effects and increased metabolism by substaining elevated C-AMP levels.

this is one very good reason to add some salicin, even just white or purple willow bark...

I incorporate 81mg of Aspirin in my ECAY stack when I do use it.

 

[flytrapcan]

ThinkBig posted this on one of my home boards.

aspirin is not "needed" per se' but it will increase it's effectiveness considerably...

remember that the body's negative feedback system activates to normalize the metabolism.

This is done via the production of phosphodiesterase inside the cells, and prostaglandins outside the cell, which both lower cAMP levels within the cell.

Caffeine inhibits the production of phospho-diester-ase inside the cell and therefore slows the C-AMP breakdown. It also, in binding with adenosine receptors in the brain, triggers the release of adrenaline which increases C-AMP levels further.

Aspirin inhibits prostaglandin production outside of the cells, which, in conjunction with caffeine, greatly prolongs the thermogenic effects and increased metabolism by substaining elevated C-AMP levels.

this is one very good reason to add some salicin, even just white or purple willow bark...

I incorporate 81mg of Aspirin in my ECAY stack when I do use it.

See I was saying that but without the knowledgable tone. I knew there was camping in there somewhere.

Thanks for the details.

 

[walt]

Any side effects with the aspirin??

 

[Ubiquitous]

yeah, if used for too long, and more than say 81mg (baby aspirin), there is a high chance of getting an ulcer.

 

[walt]

Would three weeks on be oK? I would like to stay on the safe side.

 

[excalibur]

Nicre read thanks

Il show this to my girlfriend and maybe she want to use EC insted of "tacking" my ad/hd meds fore weightlos...