Ephedrine and cutting
- 03-22-2006, 12:34 PM
- 03-22-2006, 01:14 PM
All depends on your current BF and how much fat you're looking to cut. If you have a fair bit to loose and are planning a lengthy cut (>12 weeks) I'd say wait until you start stalling out and are at a point where dropping calories and/or adding more cardio would be counter productive. If you just have a few pounds to loose (<10 lbs.) I don't see why you couldn't start sooner. Most guys here don't recommend staying on Ephedrine too long (4-8 weeks).
- 03-22-2006, 02:31 PM
I'm not exactly sure of my BF but I think it's about 16/17%. I am going to diet for 12 weeks (but longer if I need it) and would like to get down to 10-12% BF. So should I just start it after 4 weeks and run it 3x a day til end of diet? I was also gona run prostanozol and mohn for the last 4 weeks. Should run ephedrine with caffeine or with a fat burner like lipo 6? Sorry about the amount of questions!
03-22-2006, 02:42 PM
I find that my body adjusts to ephedrine and it loses effect after about about 2-3 weeks. I prefer doing 2-3 weeks on then 2 weeks off. Repeat until ripped. I also start at 12.5mg 2x day and then bump up to 25mg 2x day half way through cycle.
03-22-2006, 02:56 PM
I wouldn't start EC at 3x a day. Might want to go with 1x, then assess tolerance.
Also Ephedrine has been shown to be effective even after the euphoria is gone (4-8weeks).
Pubmed 6mo study:
New York Obesity Research Center, St Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital and Columbia University, New York 10025, USA.
OBJECTIVE: To examine long-term safety and efficacy for weight loss of an herbal Ma Huang and Kola nut supplement (90/192 mg/day ephedrine alkaloids/caffeine). DESIGN: Six-month randomized, double-blind placebo controlled trial. SUBJECTS: A total of 167 subjects (body mass index (BMI) 31.8+/-4.1 kg/m(2)) randomized to placebo (n=84) or herbal treatment (n=83) at two outpatient weight control research units. MEASUREMENTS: Primary outcome measurements were changes in blood pressure, heart function and body weight. Secondary variables included body composition and metabolic changes. RESULTS: By last observation carried forward analysis, herbal vs placebo treatment decreased body weight (-5.3+/-5.0 vs. -2.6+/-3.2 kg, P<0.001), body fat (-4.3+/-3.3 vs. -2.7+/-2.8 kg, P=0.020) and LDL-cholesterol (-8+/-20 vs. 0+/-17 mg/dl, P=0.013), and increased HDL-cholesterol (+2.7+/-5.7 vs. -0.3+/-6.7 mg/dl, P=0.004). Herbal treatment produced small changes in blood pressure variables (+3 to -5 mm Hg, P< or =0.05), and increased heart rate (4+/-9 vs. -3+/-9 bpm, P<0.001), but cardiac arrhythmias were not increased (P>0.05). By self-report, dry mouth (P<0.01), heartburn (P<0.05), and insomnia (P<0.01) were increased and diarrhea decreased (P<0.05). Irritability, nausea, chest pain and palpitations did not differ, nor did numbers of subjects who withdrew. CONCLUSIONS: In this 6-month placebo-controlled trial, herbal ephedra/caffeine (90/192 mg/day) promoted body weight and body fat reduction and improved blood lipids without significant adverse events.
There is a 1year study that has much more detail about the fat mobilization effects, but I can't find it right now.
I like to run my stack as follows: 25E 200C and Yohimbine HCL 2.5-5.
I use generic ECY. I just can't make myself believe that a $30-40 highly advertised pill is better than my ECY stack.
But i could be wrong
03-22-2006, 02:57 PM
Something from the 1yr study: Ephedrine helps preserve muscle mass.
03-22-2006, 03:28 PM
So if I start ephedrine at 1x a day and the yohimbine at 2.5mg and then increase them when needed? Should i take ECY before I workout for better results?Originally Posted by jjse1f
03-22-2006, 03:41 PM
Here is what I do:
For about a week I just do EC 1x day in the morning. When I get a little more used to it, I add 2.5mg Y.
When I feel the need, I add in another 2.5Y
So E25 C200 Y5
Get used to that and do it 2x day, morning and mid afternoon.
Get used to that and 3x day (most of the week)
6am, 12pm-ish, 4pm.
Some days I knock out a cup of coffee or 2 and don't feel the need to bounce off the walls, so I take 2 doses instead.
just ease into it, if you overdo it, you will hate life and have a caffeine crash.
don't forget they are diuretics and you will need to drink LOTS of water.
To specifically answer your question about taking it "before workout"
1. If your workout is a night, AND you think you will be able to sleep, then go for it.
2. If not, I recommend morning.
Do you smoke by any chance?
03-22-2006, 03:42 PM
Also do you have any heart conditions? OR family history?
ex High BP.
03-22-2006, 03:53 PM
When you say most of the week, do you mean not to take 3x day everyday?Originally Posted by jjse1f
No I don't smoke and I don't drink. My grandad had a heart attack years ago. I've never had any issues with my heart though.
And I train about 6pm and i usually have a cup of coffee before I train.
03-22-2006, 03:58 PM
To reach those goals, you don't even have to consider using ephedrine. 12 weeks is plenty of time and you shouldn't stall out if you know how to diet.
Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
03-22-2006, 04:09 PM
I run 25mg E 200mg C and 5mg Y in my ECY stack.
I take one first thing in the morning with a protein shake, as I find that Y on an emptly stomach makes me feel sick.
It then run an EC at lunchtime.
I take another ECY before my evening workout, usually at 5pm.
There is a big difference in my workouts than if I have not taken a stack before hand. I feel more energized and can lift more with greater endurance if I have a stack 30 minutes before.
My workouts run late at night, from 6pm up to 11pm some nights, so I sleep fine by taking my last stack before 6pm.
I know somebody who has a terrible reaction to Y but is perfectly fine on EC, so be careful with it to begin with, there is nothing worse that OD'ing and knowing there is nothing you can do about it but sweat profusely and feel like you could run a marathon
I also found it to be an appetite supressant which meant I was not eating enough in a day, so I had to force myself to eat at least my BMR.
The great thing about it is the price when you make it yourself, it is so much cheaper than buying a pre-made stack with some fancy label on it.
Be careful as it is very easy to overtrain with all the increased energy that it gives, oh and coming off it can be hell. Lower your dose gradually when you want to come off, as the sudden drop in C can give you the worst migranes.
Drink lots, you will sweat more and pee like a trooper
03-22-2006, 04:28 PM
Just a personal preference. I take it everyday, but sometimes I either don't have the pills on me, or I just don't want to take them.
M-F I'm at work and everything is routine, but weekends are different.
Does that clarify anything?
Note: don't overthink it, you will understand when you start. Just assess yourself. You may not react as much as I do.
I understand what dreamweaver is saying about diet but, knowing a EC stack can help preserve muscle is a big advantage in my book.
03-22-2006, 04:32 PM
In a perfect world, I would take them 3x day, everyday.
03-22-2006, 04:58 PM
Thanks for all the advice from everyone, it's much appreciated.
03-22-2006, 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by Peak1
If you have anymore questions, I will be more than happy to help.
03-23-2006, 01:36 AM
Take Eph/Caff 20mg/200mg 2-3x a day
Add Yohimbine HCL for 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.
Ephedrine's fat burning increases over time. Yohimbine loses effectiveness rather quickly, and is best 2weeks on, 2 weeks off.
Good idea to take a full day off stims at least 1 day a week. If you're running a carb cycling type diet, you could time it so you can lay off the stims on your carb up day on a Sat or Sunday, and time it with some extra sleeping in, naps, etc.
Hope that helps - Ephedrine's a fairly no brainer supplement, provided you do not have health problems contraindicated. Pay attention to the side effects. I would not suggest starting with Eph/Caff/Yo hcl the first weeks. Give Eph/Caffiene 2 weeks, and then try adding a lo dose of yo hcl, and work up. Your body gets used to it fast, but taking too much is VERY uncomfortable.
Have some phenibut/MRM Relax All on hand in case of too much stimulation
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