PCT help from those who know for those in need
- 03-06-2006, 03:55 PM
- 03-06-2006, 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by Grrr
The idea is to jumpstart Test production, or at least give it a healthy nudge.Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
03-06-2006, 04:01 PM
Read again what it said.
It is simultainiously stimulating your HPTA (natural test production) and acting as an anti-e. Upon ending your PCT therapy with a SERM, there may be some initial reduction of test that was hyper stimulated by the SERM and some estrogen rebound as the anti-e effects of the SERM are withdrawn. Soon afterward with a healthy diet and training you will be back in *homeostasisboth of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes."
*The ability or tendency of an organism or cell to maintain internal equilibrium by adjusting its physiological processes
03-06-2006, 04:09 PM
Wow B. That afore mentioned article kicks ass! so that is why SERMS at high doses are given initially as PCT and then tapered down. its used to stimulate the hypothalamus and inhibit the negative estrogen feedback loop! Inversely, AI's are used and tapered up to keep the raising estrogen and testosterone levels balanced. Kinda like a set of training wheels untill the body can manage itself, correct?Originally Posted by B5150
damn im glad ive got the day off
03-06-2006, 04:16 PM
03-06-2006, 04:18 PM
03-06-2006, 04:25 PM
There is research that suggests more is not better and that a static may be fine. You probaly only need 20mgs but we have grown acustomed to a 40,20,20 taper. Some old school guys don't atper but run a static 20mgs. We don't have data to suppoort what we are doing do we.Originally Posted by GrrrHere is where there is mixed opinion and views. Estrogen is not harmful to our muscle mass retention. Actually it in anabolic to a degree. Why we want to knock it down when we don't need to is beyond me. We primarily want to restore test product. I believe restored test production will balance out the estrogen. They are a ying and yang...of sortsInversely, AI's are used and tapered up to keep the raising estrogen and testosterone levels balanced. Kinda like a set of training wheels untill the body can manage itself, correct?
damn im glad ive got the day off
03-06-2006, 04:28 PM
Just the whole salute thing in one of your posts. Your signature refering to being outmanned, but never out gunned. Disregard.Originally Posted by Grrr
So have all your questions been answered?
03-06-2006, 04:30 PM
I noticed when I used Nolva alone that I kept most of the weight, but my strength leveled out. On the other hand, when I used ATD post cycle, I lost half of what I gained, but strength continued to increase. I figure If I use both, I have all bases covered. Just a personal observation.
03-06-2006, 04:38 PM
Gotcha sensei.Originally Posted by B5150
so that being said, what do you think of this for the next 3 weeks?
this week: Rebound 50mg, Nolva 40 mg at nite w/ 100 mg retain
next week:Rebound 75mg, Nolva 20 mg at nite w/ 100 mg retain
final week:Rebound 75mg, Nolva 20 mg at nite w/ 100 mg retain
03-06-2006, 04:43 PM
Looks good to me. I'll be doing something similar for my next PCT.Originally Posted by Grrr
Week 1- Nolva 40mgs/ATD 25mgs
Week 2- Nolva 40mgs/ATD 50mgs
Week 3- Nolva 20mgs/ATD 50mgs
Week 4- Nolva 20mgs/ATD 75mgs
03-06-2006, 04:47 PM
Is rebound xt an AI or ATD? im looking up ATD now and it seems like both ATD's and AI's inhibit aromatizing enzymes which convert some androgens to estrogen. whats the difference?
03-06-2006, 04:52 PM
Sorry for the confusion. ATD is an acronym for the chemical name 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione. ATD is an AI. I'll be using the brand name Inhibit-E by SNS if you were wondering.Originally Posted by Grrr
03-06-2006, 04:56 PM
03-06-2006, 04:57 PM
I'll give you a hint. The answer to that question is in the same thread I gave to you earlier. I think Dr. D goes in depth about how it would fit in.
03-06-2006, 05:01 PM
Nice one. Nate Dogg and B5150 are some enlightened senseis! Anything else I should research B? Nate? that being said, i think ill actually go to the gym. after all, it is shoulders day!
ps ill research fenugreek and add it to a pct protocol and submit it for you guys to chek out later.
thanks for your patience, and for saving me the trouble of having to go bra shopping.
03-06-2006, 05:21 PM
You seem to have all of the PCT basics covered. My question is, do you know about the support supplements and herbs to keep your organs healthy? J/W.
03-06-2006, 05:28 PM
It is too few and far between that I am able to get some pleasure (well banning SOB's can be fun) helping someone out. Your willingness to learn for yourself is refreshing. One thing I would like to encourage you to do is KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Although we made great headway with your understanding, you have a tendency to further complicate matters by wanting to add another variable to the list. KISS!!!
We have successfully PCT'd (and supressed gyno) in the past without all of this other stuff for quite some time.
Here is what I always, always use.
FL7 (TD 7-OXO) 100mg/d (ant-cortisol)
That's it. Of source I use extra EFA's, E/C and bump my creatine. But that's it. I do just fine.
I have used DHEA, and will be experimenting with AX's PCT(ATD)
Find out how the BASICS will work for you first. You can always add to it. But if you don't need it they why bother.
You've come a long way
03-06-2006, 05:29 PM
PLEASE lets just keep this thread on topic. Not trying to be offensive, but just PLEASEOriginally Posted by RenegadeRows
03-06-2006, 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by B5150
Thank you for everything. I feel much better prepared. I will keep the board up to speed with my progresses.
I wont be cycling again for a while. I want to give myself equal time off everything, even PCT. Until then, KISS
03-06-2006, 07:04 PM
I agree. lets keep this about PCT. This thread has helped me alot. I only have one final question regarding PCT. everything seems to taper off eventualy except for the Rebound XT. At the end, the dose seems to be at its highest. When the week is over you just stop taking it? there isnt a crash?
03-06-2006, 09:11 PM
I have yet to find any info that supports the idea of estrogen rebound when using an aromatase inhibitor (AI).
Now that you have the start of a foundation of knowledge add to it. A good idea for you is to search out some articles or posts by someone with the board name Swale. He posts in this forum quite often: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/
My next PCT I will keep my dose consistent @50mg. And I will taper the SERM per Swale's rec'd.
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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