Problems with L-arginine

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    Problems with L-arginine


    Hey, I'm starting this thread just to try and find out if anyone has noticed any negative side effects to L-arginine supplementation. I started supplementing arginine a few weeks ago and have loved the pumps it has given me. I have also noticed some increase in vascularity. However, I recently got a cold so Im not really sure whether its being sick or the arginine causing problems. Just figured I'd toss the topic out there and see if anyone wants to discuss anything negative they have experienced or also the positive effects. Thanks for any help offered.

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    L-Arg. Sides


    I have taken it multiple times and have had no neg. sides to speak of. It is prob. just a coincidence that you got a cold while on it.
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    Why would you think it caused you to get a cold? I know dozens of people taking different brands, and no one has ever had any neg effects that I know of. I use NO XPLODE and have never had any bad effects other than a slight headache at very high doses(3 scoops) in the early am without breakfast. (directions say to take on an empty stomach for best results). I've also used VPX Pump drink, and found it to have excellent results.
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    Arginine certainly can cause sides for some but generally it is good for the immune system.

    Some people are sensitive to elevated levels of NO..like those with anxiety or bipolar disorder. NO can also be quite oxidative at high levels but how much of a danger this represent to BBers is not very clear to me.
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    I have used arginine on and off in its various states for about 20 years. The effects have been extremely positive. I have gotten more from arginine than most of the hormonal products that have been are available over the counter. The negative sides i have encountered are; headache(muscle tension), joint stiffness, jaw tighness The positive nitrogen effects far outway any of the sides. I find if I just cycle properly the sides are minimal. You need lots of water and the ammonia makes you pee smell stronger. You also need to sweat to excrete the excess ammonia and urea, just a little more cardio and I am fine. good luck
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    There are conflicting views on arginine and NOS.

    I hope no offense, but here is the summary of finding from an article called: "Consumer Alert: The NO2/Arginine Scam"
    by David Barr.
    Fo the full article, see the link below.



    arginine blood flow stimulators ("nitric-oxide" or "NO2" supplements) have been shown to increase vasodilation, but only in unfed people receiving enormous doses through an IV.

    • Oral arginine supplementation doesn't affect blood flow.

    • A dose as low as 10 grams has been associated with gastric upset when consumed orally. This dose has no significant effect on glycogen storage, even if it didn't cause diarrhea.

    • Time release arginine is supposed to lead to a "perpetual pump" effect. New studies have shown this not to be the case.

    • NO2 was shown to have no effect compared to a placebo on body composition or muscle strength.

    • It's not possible for us to consume high enough levels of arginine to effectively increase nitric oxide levels.

    • Copycat NO2 products are no better than the original supplement. In fact, those that contain glycocyamine should be avoided because of potential health concerns.

    • If you think these products work for you, then you'd better look into the placebo effect.

    • Arginine might temporarily elevate growth hormone levels, but only if you're able to take unrealistic doses. There's little evidence to support that this short term increase in GH would do anything for your physique anyway.

    • In one study, arginine aspartate was shown to increase prolactin by an average of 75%. Prolactin is associated with decreased Testosterone levels.

    • Five grams of arginine consumed during resistance exercise was shown to decrease normal exercise-induced GH output.

    • The positive benefits of oral arginine supplementation can only be achieved through doses higher than the human body can handle. And most (but not all) of this effect is mediated by insulin. So if you want to have blood flow increases equivalent to a huge IV arginine infusion, just manipulate insulin through other means
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    I've had great experience with Arginine. I usually stack it with Orinthine to experience a cheap and effective pump.
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    Thumbs up


    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    There are conflicting views on arginine and NOS.

    I hope no offense, but here is the summary of finding from an article called: "Consumer Alert: The NO2/Arginine Scam"
    by David Barr.
    Fo the full article, see the link below.






    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=556124
    Good post

    I read this article. I read T-N every so often, and can only wonder about some of the supps that they push. (a so called mind and body super supp....) Look at the ingredients on the new MT gak.. product, see anything familiar? Everybody wants you to use their product. If it works for you and there are no bad sides (at least ones that we know about...) then use it. I do believe that alot of these supps work on the placebo effect, but hey, your mind is the strongest drug out there.
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    arginine studies


    well, I only know what 25 plus years of supplementation have taught me. Not everything works the same way for everyone. There are articles and studies to prove and disprove everything that has been studied. There is an effect similar to the placebo effect on scientific studies, where a certain percentage of evidence is analyzed in a fashion that makes it meet the criteria for which it is being studied.( simply that the studies can never be totally subjective) If I have deluded myself into strenght gains, a better sense of well being and greater vascularity, then that's okay with me because this stuff is relatively cheap as compared to the other placebos. Does Arginine have steroid like effects, NO, only steroids have steroid like effects. That too is a good thing.
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    I'm a tad chagrined because I've "felt" that NOS supplementation really had an effetc for me...but a seach of pubmed yields some bad results on http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...+muscle+growth
    actual scientific studies.
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    I feel that although Arginine supps are over-hyped as is the case with most athetic supps, that it does indeed do some of the things it claims to.

    The "pump" aspect is not psychosomatic or millions of us are a bunch of mental weaklings. The newer forms of arginine in particular certainly must get into the bloodstream better than Arg HCL but all in all I think the elevation of NO is very short lived.

    Claims of Arg causing anabolism are pretty weak IMO. There's a decent body of research showing increaded HGH output with very consistent arg/ornithine use but we all know HGh is not so much anabolic in the sense that steroids are, rather it works towards recovery and fat burning. I think these effects can be elicited through Arg supplementation, however it's a long term thing and it's going to be far more subtle than actual HGH use.

    My take on arg supplementation is that I find it good for pumps in the gym which is fun, it aids in endurance, can give a boost in terms of mental energy and it's good for keeping the immune system fueled up. I don't think it does anything for real LBM gains other than some shortlived volumization effects the benefits of which are completely subjective depending on the user's goals.
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    Thanks a lot guys. My main concern was not that the arginine had caused me to get sick or anything like that, although I realize that I could have been more specific about some of the sides I thought may have been linked to the arginine. Not necessarily important however, because I was ultimately just curious about how you all have responded to or any opinions that you have about arginine as a supplement. I appreciate the advice from those more seasoned than myself. Thanks again guys.
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    Arginine + lysine DO increase growth hormone secretion.
    The Jan. Muscular Development mentions a 2.7 fold increase in GH secretion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    Arginine + lysine DO increase growth hormone secretion.
    The Jan. Muscular Development mentions a 2.7 fold increase in GH secretion.
    Do you have a link to this?
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    I have tried NO products 4 times (each time about 30 days) at a dose yielding 10-12g arginine and I did not see any positive side effects. I have noticed that if you are not consistently eating sufficient amounts of protein throughout the day, then NO products usually have a positive side effect. i have tons of friends that swear by the products but the do not eat with the frequency that they should. Just my little anecdote and experience w/ NO.
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    Yeah,
    If I get time today, I'll search PubMed. But, I think that Bobo posted a study before on the effect of arg+lys on GH.
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    To jmh80. You say...

    "Arginine + lysine DO increase growth hormone secretion.
    The Jan. Muscular Development mentions a 2.7 fold increase in GH secretion"

    I refer you to the following.......

    "But What About Growth Hormone Release?

    In response to this rather damning article, some companies will scrounge up data showing that arginine can elevate growth hormone levels. While we’ve known for the past decade that this applies only to huge doses infused into the bloodstream, many people will be unaware of this trick.

    Now, there's evidence that ingesting 22 grams per day (in a 200 pound man) of arginine aspartate increased nocturnal growth hormone output (5). The peak GH output during sleep was increased by an average of 60%. Unfortunately, only five subjects were studied and one of them had four times the peak output of the others. Without that one oddball subject, the average peak was cut in half! (Again, these are just peak measurements, not total levels.)

    Also of note, prolactin increased by an average of 75%. This hormone is associated with decreased Testosterone (7)! What’s really scary is that a mere five grams of arginine consumed during exercise actually decreased the resistance exercise-induced increase in GH output (24)!

    The bottom line is that you can forget about arginine and GH stimulation, despite what the advertisements try to tell you."

    Just another viewpoint for you.

    Cheers
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    Another viewpoint as to why to use arg:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...ine+%2B+lysine
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    Acute effect of amino acid ingestion and resistance exercise on plasma growth hormone concentration in young men.

    Suminski RR, Robertson RJ, Goss FL, Arslanian S, Kang J, DaSilva S, Utter AC, Metz KF.

    Human Performance Laboratory, University of Houston, TX 77204, USA.

    Sixteen men completed four trials at random as follows: (Trial A) performance of a single bout of resistance exercise preceded by placebo ingestion (vitamin C); (Trial B) ingestion of 1,500 mg L-arginine and 1,500 mg L-lysine, immediately followed by exercise as in Trial A; (Trial C) ingestion of amino acids as in Trial B and no exercise; (Trial D) placebo ingestion and no exercise. Growth hormone (GH) concentrations were higher at 30, 60, and 90 min during the exercise trials (A and B) compared with the resting trials (C and D) (p < .05). No differences were noted in [GH] between the exercise trials. [GH] was significantly elevated during resting conditions 60 min after amino acid ingestion compared with the placebo trial. It was concluded that ingestion of 1,500 mg arginine and 1,500 mg lysine immediately before resistance exercise does not alter exercise-induced changes in [GH] in young men. However, when the same amino acid mixture is ingested under basal conditions, the acute secretion of GH is increased.

    Current Medical Research & Opinion

    Vol. 7, No. 7, 1981

    A. Isidori M.D. A. Lo Monaco, M.D.& M. Cappa, M.D.
    Medical Clinic V. University of Rome, Rome, Italy. Received: 13th March 1981

    Summary

    A study was carried out in 15 male volunteers to evaluate qualitatively the secretion of growth factors following stimulation by oral amino acids. the results showed that oral administration of a combination of two amino acids (1200 mg l-lysine plus 1200 mg l-arginine pyroglutanate) provoked a release of pituitary somatotrophin & insulin. This phenomenon was reproducible & the growth hormone secreted in response to this stimulation had biological activity (as demonstrated by radiorecepter assay & somatomedin induction). The effect appeared to be specific to the combination of the two amino acids; neither of the amino acids demonstrated appreciable stimulating activity when administered alone, even at the same doses.


    There is also another intersting study in whic ARG blunted the inhibitory effect of IGF-1 on GH release

    Arginine counteracts the inhibitory effect of recombinant human insulin-like growth factor I on the somatotroph responsiveness to growth hormone-releasing hormone in humans.

    Gianotti L, Maccario M, Lanfranco F, Ramunni J, Di Vito L, Grottoli S, Muller EE, Ghigo E, Arvat E.

    Department of Internal Medicine, University of Turin, Italy.

    Insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) exerts a negative feedback effect on GH secretion via either direct actions at the pituitary level or indirect ones at the hypothalamic level, through stimulation of somatostatin (SS) and/or inhibition of GHRH release. In fact, recombinant human IGF-I (rhIGF-I) in humans inhibits spontaneous GH secretion as well as the GH response to GHRH and even more to GH/GH-releasing peptides, whose main action is on the hypothalamus, antagonizing SS and enhancing GHRH activity. The aim of the present study was to further clarify in humans the mechanisms underlying IGF-I-induced inhibition of somatotroph secretion. In six normal young volunteers (all women; mean +/- SEM: age, 28.3+/-1.2 yr; body mass index, 21.3+/-1.2 kg/m2) we studied the GH response to GHRH (1 microg/kg, iv, at 0 min), both alone and combined with arginine (ARG; 0.5 g/kg, iv, from 0-30 min), which probably acts via inhibition of hypothalamic SS release, after pretreatment with rhIGF-I (20 microg/kg, sc, at -180 min) or placebo. rhIGF-I increased circulating IGF-I levels (peak at -60 vs. -180 min: 54.9+/-3.9 vs. 35.9+/-3.3 mmol/L; P < 0.05) to a reproducible extent, and these levels remained stable and within the normal range until 90 min. The mean GH concentration over 3 h (from -180 to 0 min) before ARG and/or GHRH was not modified by placebo or rhIGF-I. After placebo, the GH response to GHRH (peak, 23.6+/-2.9 microg/L) was strikingly enhanced (P < 0.05) by ARG coadministration (69.6+/-9.9 microg/L). rhIGF-I blunted the GH response to GHRH (13.1+/-4.5 microg/L; P < 0.05), whereas that to GHRH plus ARG was not modified (59.5+/-8.9 microg/L), although it occurred with some delay. Mean glucose and insulin concentrations were not modified by either placebo or rhIGF-I. In conclusion, ARG counteracts the inhibitory effect of rhIGF-I on somatotroph responsiveness to GHRH in humans. These findings suggest that the acute inhibitory effect of rhIGF-I on the GH response to GHRH takes place on the hypothalamus, possibly via enhancement of SS release, and that ARG overrides this action.
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    Here is a more detailed explanation of the Isidori study:

    Current Medical Research & Opinion

    Vol. 7, No. 7, 1981

    A. Isidori M.D. A. Lo Monaco, M.D.& M. Cappa, M.D.
    Medical Clinic V. University of Rome, Rome, Italy. Received: 13th March 1981

    Summary

    A study was carried out in 15 male volunteers to evaluate qualitatively the secretion of growth factors following stimulation by oral amino acids. the results showed that oral administration of a combination of two amino acids (1200 mg l-lysine plus 1200 mg l-arginine pyroglutanate) provoked a release of pituitary somatotrophin & insulin. This phenomenon was reproducible & the growth hormone secreted in response to this stimulation had biological activity (as demonstrated by radiorecepter assay & somatomedin induction). The effect appeared to be specific to the combination of the two amino acids; neither of the amino acids demonstrated appreciable stimulating activity when administered alone, even at the same doses.

    Introduction

    It has been known for some time that intravenous administration of amino acids strongly stimulates secretion of growth hormone by the hypothesis. 1,4,13,15,16,18-20. This phenomenon has, in fact, been accepted & utilized as a test of pituitary function in growth disorders. 2,8,9,12,17. However, the physiological relevance of this release of human growth hormone (HGH) has not yet been fully established.

    We have investigated, therefore, the following aspects of this phenomenon: (i) the exact biological nature of the HGH secreted in response to amino acid stimulation, (ii) a possible release of other growth factors in addition to HGH, (iv) whether specific amino acids (l-lysine 7 & l-arginine), either alone or in combination, produce varying HGH responses, (v) the time course of the HGH release, & (vi) whether oral administration of the amino acids is effective.

    Subjects & methods

    Fifteen healthy male volunteers, aged 15 to 20 years, free of all endocrine or metabolic abnormalities & who were not receiving any kind of medical treatment, were kept under observation for 2 days. After initial blood samples had been obtained, each subject received a single oral dose of 2400 mg amino acids (1200mg l-arginine-2-pyrrolidone-5-carboxylate plus 1200 mg l-lysine hydrochloride) on an empty stomach. Blood samples were again drawn at intervals of 30.60, 90 & 120 minutes after amino acid administration. The experiment was repeated after intervals of 10 & 20 days.

    Blood samples were tested for growth hormone by: (a) a radioimmunoassay (RIA) method, & (b) a radioreceptor assay (RRA). This bioassay evaluates somatotrophin on a substrate of lymphocytes in monolayer culture (blastic lymphocytes IM9 infected with Epstein-Barr virus) after extraction & purification by gel-chromatography on a Sephadex column. The biological activity is evaluated in units & extrapolated to ng/ml.

    Somatomedin activity (Somatotomedin A, Asm) was also addressed. To evaluate this HGH-dependant serum factor a biological method was used which determines the incorporation of 35SO4 (the sulphatating activity of the serum) & of 3H-thymidine on piglet rib cartilage. This method, which we modified, 11 is extremely precise (for levels below 0.3) & quite sensitive. Somatomedin activity is expressed in U/ml. One unit indicates the sulphatating activity of 1ml of pooled serum from at least 3 healthy subjects, as no international standard has yet been established for Asm. Normal values using this method are 1+- 0.2 U/ml, with confidence limits of 0.8 and 1.2.Insulin levels were determined by radioimmunoassay.

    In a second experiment, 8 subjects randomly selected from the 15 included in the first experiment underwent growth hormone assays after administration of single doses of various amino acids: (i) 1200 mg l-arginine-2-pyrrolidone-5-carboxylate, (ii) 1200 mg l-lysine hydrochloride, (iii) 1200 mg of both (total 2400 mg), as in the first experiment, and (iv) 2400 l-arginine-2-pyrrolidone-5-carboxylate. Blood samples were drawn at the same times as in the first experiment and assayed only for growth hormone.

    Results

    The results are reported in Table I & figures 1, 2, & 3 & 4 for the experiment & in Table II & figure 5 for the second experiment.

    Table I. Plasma levels of growth hormone (HGH), insulin & somatomedin (Asm) after oral administration of 1200 mg. l-arginine-2-pyrrolidone-5-carboxylate & 1200 mg l-lysine hydrochloride: mean (+- S.D.) values for 15 subjects

    Measurement Growth hormone (ng/ml) RRA: RIA Insulin
    (&#194;&#181;U/ml) Asm
    (U/ml)
    RIA RRA
    Baseline
    30 mins
    60 mins
    90 mins
    120 mins
    8 hours 15.4 +- 5.0
    86.2 +- 8.7
    82.0 +- 14.8
    108.0 +- 7.4
    102.7 +- 10.0
    48.0 +- 5.5 15.0 +- 3.0

    60.26 +- 9.0
    112.97 +- 6.2
    0.73
    1.04 7.3 +- 3.2
    21.0 +- 1.5
    11.7 +- 2.0
    7.9 +- 3.1
    9.85 +- 3.8 0.9 +- 0.2
    0.9 +- 0.2
    1.0 +- 0.1
    1.0 +- 0.1

    3.0 +- 0.1
    10 days later
    (90mins)*
    20 days later 97.5 +- 5.6

    95.0+-10.05
    18.3+-2.5

    17.7+-8.4

    * The test was repeated after 10 and 20 days. The figures relate to the plasma samples taken at the time of maximal peak (90 mins) in the previous experiment.

    Table II. Plasma levels (ng/ml) of growth hormone after single oral doses of l-arginine-2-pyrrolidone-5-carboxylate or l-lysine hydrochloride, alone or in combination: mean (+-S.D.) values for 8 subjects

    Measurement Arginine
    (1200 mg) Arginine
    (2400 mg) Lysine
    (1200 mg) Lysine(1200 mg)
    Arginine(1200 mg)
    Baseline
    30 mins
    60mins
    90 mins
    120 mins 7.3+-2.3
    13.5+-7.5
    10.0+-4.5
    9.2+-4.7
    9.4+-5.4 16.4+-4.1
    3.4+-2.5
    5.8+-4.0
    5.9+-3.8
    6.2+-4.1 4.8+-1.9
    6.3+-3.8
    7.8+-5.1
    13.5+-5.2
    15.8+-4.2 12.4+-2.5
    29.0+-7.5
    63.0+-7.8
    98.5+-15.0
    57.1+-10.0

    From the results it would appear the the joint administration of the two amino acids (2400 mg total) brought about a marked biological response which was reproducible and did not reduce with time. As will be seen from I and 5, there was induction of a significant peak of immunoreactive HGH which reached a maximum at 90 minutes after administration and this was confirmed when the experiment was repeated.

    Figure 1. percentage variations in plasma HGH (radioimmunoassay) with respect to baseline values after oral administration of 1200 mg l-arginine-2pyrrolidone-5-carboxylate plus 1200 mg l-lysine hydrochloride: mean (+-S.D.) values for 15 subjects.


    The HGH released appeared to be biologically active both in vitro on RRA systems (Figure 2) and in the peripheral induction of mediators of somatomedin activity (Figure 3). The time lag between the HGH peak and the peak of somatomedin A corresponds to that previously reported.

    Figure 2. Relationships between percentage variations from baseline values in plasma HGH, assessed by radioimmunoassay (RIA) and with a biological assay (RRA), after oral administration of the arginine plus lysine combination, as in figure 1.


    Figure 3. Plasma levels of growth hormone (HGH) and somatomedin A (Asm) after oral administration of the arginine plus lysine combination, as in figure 1.: mean (+-S.D.) values for 15 subjects.


    A significant secretion of insulin, another very important growth factor, was also induced (Figure 4).

    Figure 4. Plasma levels (RIA) after oral administration of the arginine plus lysine combination, as in Figure 1.: mean (+-S.D.) values for 15 subjects.


    The association of the two amino acids seemed to provoke a much greater HGH response than either of them demonstrated alone. Individually, their influence on HGH was practically non-existent (Figure 5), even when administered in doses equal to the total amino acid dosage of the combination.

    Figure 5. Plasma levels of HGH (RIA) after oral administration of arginine and lysine alone in combination: mean (+-S.D.) values for 8 subjects.
    Discussion

    Our findings are clinically important in terms of the relevance of amino acids to growth disorders, particularly in relation to diagnostic test in growth disorders. The confirmation of biological activity of the HGH secreted in response to oral amino acid stimulation is very important. It is known that stimulation of the hypothesis by physiological processes 6,7,10 or pharmacological agents can result in the release of substances into the circulation, the majority of which possess immunoreactive properties enabling their identification by normal RIA systems, but the peripheral biological activity is often reduced or absent. 21 We have shown similar immuno-responses to the amino acid combination but, far more important, we could demonstrate that the association of the two amino acids does result in the release of biological-active hormone able to affect peripheral cellar receptors and thus growth in general.

    Insulin is, of course, an equally important factor in cell growth. Even if there are some uncertainties regarding the bioactivity of the substance assayed, there is no doubt the the amino acids stimulated this as well as HGH: hence, both of the physiologically important growth factors are affected. It should also be noted that the hypoglycemia which follows the insulin peak is a further stimulus to HGH secretion.

    Probably the most significant aspect of our findings is that these HGH responses have demonstrated following oral administration of the amino acid complex. Previously, the only amino acid to have been tested orally is trytophan, 3,5,14 so that demonstration of oral activity of this arginine/lysine combination is clearly of considerable importance in clinical and diagnostic practice, where if offers a more practical and physiological approach.
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    Food for thought...
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindgames
    To jmh80. You say...

    "Arginine + lysine DO increase growth hormone secretion.
    The Jan. Muscular Development mentions a 2.7 fold increase in GH secretion"

    I refer you to the following.......

    "But What About Growth Hormone Release?

    In response to this rather damning article, some companies will scrounge up data showing that arginine can elevate growth hormone levels. While we’ve known for the past decade that this applies only to huge doses infused into the bloodstream, many people will be unaware of this trick.

    Now, there's evidence that ingesting 22 grams per day (in a 200 pound man) of arginine aspartate increased nocturnal growth hormone output (5). The peak GH output during sleep was increased by an average of 60%. Unfortunately, only five subjects were studied and one of them had four times the peak output of the others. Without that one oddball subject, the average peak was cut in half! (Again, these are just peak measurements, not total levels.)

    Also of note, prolactin increased by an average of 75%. This hormone is associated with decreased Testosterone (7)! What’s really scary is that a mere five grams of arginine consumed during exercise actually decreased the resistance exercise-induced increase in GH output (24)!

    The bottom line is that you can forget about arginine and GH stimulation, despite what the advertisements try to tell you."

    Just another viewpoint for you.

    Cheers

    Look deeper than T-Mag.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
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    anabolicrhino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Look deeper than T-Mag.
    Do you want the red pill? or the blue pill,
    neo?
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    my understanding was that cold viruses (and the herpes virus) would be strengthened by higher than normal levels of arginine. so people with herpes, such as oral herpes, would get a chapstick with lysine in it to combat the outbreak of oral herpes or something like that. i thought the recommendations i'd seen to supplement with lysine (such as twice the lysine to arginine) was to help balance the immune system problem, not for GH secretion.. oh well. myabe i don't know anything.

    i can't monitor my GH levels but i sure feel like the insulin stuff works. i've used arginine with leucine and glutamine and it sure seemed to make me hungrier sooner than if i didn't take it.
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    Herpes does indeed feed off of Arginine but I have not heard that about Influenza. A big dose of Lysine, say 5 -10 grams in a day can stop and even heal cold sore in a day or two...wroks quite well.

    I had a PhD supplement expert state that higher levels of arginine are beneficial for fighting off a cold/flu...but that's only heresay and could easily be the wrong thing to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman
    Herpes does indeed feed off of Arginine but I have not heard that about Influenza. A big dose of Lysine, say 5 -10 grams in a day can stop and even heal cold sore in a day or two...wroks quite well.

    I had a PhD supplement expert state that higher levels of arginine are beneficial for fighting off a cold/flu...but that's only heresay and could easily be the wrong thing to do.
    i wonder if glutamine would help to kick the advantage to our side as well. and for immune support, how much per lb lbm?
  

  
 

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