Phera Plex and estrogen formation.
- 12-20-2005, 10:49 PM
- 12-21-2005, 02:16 AM
Originally Posted by lilmanE-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns
12-21-2005, 10:29 AM
saying a compound cant convert to estrogen is a bit misleading, the compound itself may have no capability, but your body can increase its own estrogen if test levels are too high, I am not an expert on chemistry, but I as well as many others have felt estrogen related sides from supposedly "dry" compounds. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can post and explain why this happens.So as the previous poster said, make sure you have nolva.
12-21-2005, 01:11 PM
PheraPlex isnt even close to testosterone though. One of the AX reps said that there is a metabolite in PP that can convert to estro. Just have nolva in case, its very rare for PP to cause gyno from what ive read.Originally Posted by Vtaper
E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns
12-21-2005, 02:20 PM
Can't add any real valuable information other than to say I am currently on a PP/Finigenx cycle and I am absolutely experiencing increased estrogen. I've got the bloat real bad and I actually had to start the Nolva three days ago because of some puffiness in my right nipple. Everything seems good now though.
It could all be from the Fini but I just thought I would let you know.
12-21-2005, 02:51 PM
12-21-2005, 03:29 PM
For what it is worth I got gyno for the first time ever in my life, no matter whatever else I used, when I used Ergomax (in all other respects I loved it). On the other hand when I used PP I did not get gyno so there may be some truth to the idea that PP is less likely to cause gyno then even ergo which is supposedly not very likely to.
12-21-2005, 04:33 PM
Did you get the gyno taken care of? I'm still worried about my little flare up. I don't have any lumps or any real soreness but they are puffy. Hopefully, just water and it will go away soon.
12-21-2005, 11:06 PM
i see i see, so it can possibly make estrogen due to test levels being too high, but the metabolite itself cannot directly convert to estrogen, correct me if im wrong.
12-22-2005, 06:57 AM
Actually after I stopped the Ergo the gyno slowly went away on its own. This happened 2 or 3 time because I kept going back to the Ergo to try it again because I couldn't believe it was causing the gyno. Nothing else I have ever used has caused it.
Originally Posted by jdahlum
12-23-2005, 12:52 AM
12-23-2005, 09:25 AM
It's not high test levels that do it. Taking any foreign hormone of this nature into your body will decrease your natural testosterone production. If the PP or one of its metabolites aromatizes the level of estrogen in your body could reach a high enough level to cause side effects.Originally Posted by lilman
12-24-2005, 04:35 AM
It seems to be a common misconception that anabolic steroids = higher test levels (exogenous) in the body. This is only true if that steroid is simple testosterone. Any other steroidal substance will cause an often rapid decrease in test production and levels. The anabolic effects of steroids other than testeosterone are due to their relative chemical benefit (greater gains/lesser aromatization/etc. depending on substance) when compared to testosterone, or no one would use anything other than test. If you used Advil for pain, would that increase the level of Tylenol in your blood? Of course not.
If you take Phera-Plex (DMT) you will not increase your test level. You will increase your DMT level. DMT happens to be anabolic and androgenic like testosterone in the same way as Advil and Tylenol are both painkillers. The question is whether DMT directly (or indirectly, through metabolites) aromatizes to estrogen or increases progesterone levels through some mechanism.
The real-world results show that this appears possible, although not a great risk. As always, not having a proven antiestrogen on hand is at your own risk.
12-24-2005, 10:18 AM
"your body can increase its own estrogen if test levels are too high"
This is the quote from my original post, I concede I should have replaced the word "test" with "exogenous male hormone"(nice n' bland) or used different punctuation in the post.
The point I was making is "I have read that your body can increase its own estrogen if test levels are too high in an effort to stabilize hormone levels, so perhaps it may from other "exogenous male hormones"
Sorry for the confusion.
12-24-2005, 11:59 AM
12-24-2005, 01:01 PM
Great info right here!Originally Posted by Brooklyn
E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns
12-25-2005, 12:49 PM
Not really. Estrogen is part of the negative feedback loop. As such it's an indicator of high or low test, not a direct response to it. If your body sense high estrogen levels it will decrease natural test production. If your body sense low estrogen levels it will increase test production. By introducing exogenous testosterone your body will 'make' more estrogen, but so far as I know it's not really an active response to the test, merely what happens when you introduce higher levels of testosterone into the body's already existing environment. If production of aromatase is increased or something of that nature in response to higher test levels, which it might I honestly don't know on this one, then there would be such an active response. As it is though, I think high estrogen is for the most part just a proportional conversion of the amount of aromatizable hormones in your body.Originally Posted by Vtaper
12-25-2005, 06:59 PM
Similar to my experience with Ergomax LMG, by day 3 of Phera-Plex I was quite bloated, and by day 10 I felt the need to dose nolva @ 20 mg, because of sensitivity in my left nipple. Otherwise, a great OTC product.Originally Posted by Brooklyn
12-27-2005, 06:15 AM
The Ergomax seems to be somewhat "dirtier" than the Phera-Plex in regards to sides. I really have to give credit to DS/AX for synthesizing a very clean and pure DMT analog. No one else figured it out and actually got it to market. Sans available post-cycle bloodwork, Phera-Plex really seems to be a pharma-quality anabolic.Originally Posted by 323mattb
To contrast, Superdrol's flaw is its quickly increasing sides and liver/cholesterol issues after use. It works though, at promoting muscle anabolism and weight gain/nitrogen retention. Problem is that you have to be very careful with your diet after discontinuation in order to maintain the gains.
Prostanozol's (Orastan-E) problem is that it requires high and cost-ineffctive doses to approach any apparent effectiveness. Users might feel that they would be better off with the (cheaper and proven) illicit methyl version.
Max LMG had non-responders and progestin issues. Hard to say how successful this one was.
Halodrol (V.1) was apparently an unknown and dirty mix of E-Max and some analog of Oral Turinabol. Who knows if the latter is responsible for the results and how much of what is in this? Better to just buy the cheaper and cleaner Phera-Plex.
FinagenX contains aspartame for some absurd reason. A lot of people such as myself would stay away for that reason alone. The other version of this, TesTrenX in caps may or may not meet label claims.
M-TRN? I'm assuming that Author did synthesize some methoxy-variant of methyl-trenbolone here, and it seems to work. Unfortunately, it was discontinued as soon as released (Thanks Shipley), so there isn't much feedback. What I would have found really interesting would be the stack companion M-TST ALRI planned to release. If ALR could pull that one off... Who knows, maybe we will see this product pop up mysteriously ala "sex aid" Dominator. What d'ya say, Mr. Rea? The bloodwork will probably be scary though.
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