Cortisol Clarification

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    Cortisol Clarification


    im just looking to get some clarification on cortisol and its relation to AAS usage. Now is what happens is with usage cortisol levels are increased but kept in check by something else, are they kept in check while on? or is it like a rebound thing where the cortisol is suppressed and the bounces back or is just increased after discontinued use? any idea as to how it all happens would be appreciated.

    what im trying to find out as well is it benificial to take a cortisol blocker while on as well as PCT? or is it only necessary duriong PCT? thanks guys.

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    I have been wondering about this as well. I have a very stressful job and when I'm on a cort blocker I just feel so much better. It helps my mood and recovery time quite a bit.

    I have wondered for a while if it would be beneficial to take one while on-cycle. Can wait to hear the responses!

    BTW - Poopy, I'm on day 5 of a PP cycle (my first one) and I'm loving it so far. Up 4 pounds and actually feeling and looking leaner. Good stuff!
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    PP- I took a look around and I couldn't find anything concrete, but I will say...

    I thought I remember reading that during cycle cortisol is raised to meet the excess hormones in your body, which is why they are so high PCT. The PHs/AAS are gone, but your cortisol levels are still high. If thats true, a cortisol reducer may not hurt, but I can't see the benefits outweighing the costs to be honest.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Odessa14
    PP- I took a look around and I couldn't find anything concrete, but I will say...

    I thought I remember reading that during cycle cortisol is raised to meet the excess hormones in your body, which is why they are so high PCT. The PHs/AAS are gone, but your cortisol levels are still high. If thats true, a cortisol reducer may not hurt, but I can't see the benefits outweighing the costs to be honest.


    O14
    Yes, cortisol is raised to combat excess anabolism induced by AAS, and so is estrogen, to keep the ratio of exogenous test to estrogen the same. ALR recommends an estrogen/cortisol therapy while 'on' starting the 3-rd week into a cycle. This helps with gains on cycle and better retention post cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehead
    Yes, cortisol is raised to combat excess anabolism induced by AAS, and so is estrogen, to keep the ratio of exogenous test to estrogen the same. ALR recommends an estrogen/cortisol therapy while 'on' starting the 3-rd week into a cycle. This helps with gains on cycle and better retention post cycle.

    Yeah, the estrogen thing is a bitch, I learned that the hard way. I always try to warn people that just because a PH/AAS does not aromatize to estrogen, it doesn't mean you won't get estro-related sides if youre sensitive to them...A fairly dry compound has given me some sides both on and after cycles because I was not careful enough about estrogen control.



    As for cortisol, I would suspect supplement companies to suggest using more compounds, but the fact of the matter is, when it comes down to allocating the proper supplements for the right times, I would suggest keeping cortisol reducers to the VERY end of a cycle and continue through PCT.


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    Bro download this and there is a whole section devoted to cortisol.

    http://rapidshare.de/files/3275300/B...Beast.pdf.html

    just scroll down and click the free button.
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    ^^^^

    Yep, that's where I read all that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    Bro download this and there is a whole section devoted to cortisol.

    http://rapidshare.de/files/3275300/B...Beast.pdf.html

    just scroll down and click the free button.

    Holy **** Jonny21...A ****load of people are going to find this very useful.


    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    Bro download this and there is a whole section devoted to cortisol.

    http://rapidshare.de/files/3275300/B...Beast.pdf.html

    just scroll down and click the free button.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBurly


    My sentiments exactly...
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    Hot damn, thanx man.
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    Awesome gesture man! I appreciate it. There is also a pretty good article in this months Muscular Development about the relationship between T and C. It is a good read and gives some insight into the quesetion that you posed PP. MD stresses the ratio of T:C as the most important thing. I remember reading something a year or so ago about test being highest in the morning, but so is cortisol which makes me think maybe a C-blocker at night and post workout is better than 3 or 4 times a day. Definately an area that deserves attention. I have to go read a book now!
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    awesome guys thanks for all the input, this should be very usefull and hopefully we can find more out on the effects of cortisol, well time to start reading the link (thanks for that johny!)
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    thankis bro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dungeon1
    There is also a pretty good article in this months Muscular Development about the relationship between T and C. It is a good read and gives some insight into the quesetion that you posed PP. MD stresses the ratio of T:C as the most important thing.
    Dungeon1- What do they say about the importance of T:C ratio? Or maybe it's too complicated to go into here... I haven't found the article yet. Thanks.
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    Thanks Bitch
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    Good read, thanks!
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    Question


    After clicking the "free" button, my browser immediately says I downloaded the file, but I don't see it anywhere. Can you guys try to see if you still can download it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    Bro download this and there is a whole section devoted to cortisol.

    http://rapidshare.de/files/3275300/B...Beast.pdf.html

    just scroll down and click the free button.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehead
    Yes, cortisol is raised to combat excess anabolism induced by AAS, and so is estrogen, to keep the ratio of exogenous test to estrogen the same. ALR recommends an estrogen/cortisol therapy while 'on' starting the 3-rd week into a cycle. This helps with gains on cycle and better retention post cycle.
    Uhm I think you misunderstood ALR or whatever. The reason to take anti-e while on cycle (starting after xxx weeks) depends on the androgen used and on the aromatization of itself. Of course there is a build-up.

    Now, cortisol is a different thing, all the time you are "on", the AAS will prevent cortisol from eating your muscles. So, even if there is a cortisol buildup near the end of a cycle (of which I'm not so sure), its fine to start a cortisol blocker just with PCT, not before. Cortisol is more of a daily hormone, not something that accumulates in your body.

    Please quote me some reference if they prove otherwise.
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    This is some info from an article
    http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/anabster/anabster.html

    Anabolic steroids may block the binding of cortisol to its receptor sites, which would prevent muscle breakdown and enhances recovery. While this is beneficial while the athlete is taking the drug, the effect backfires when he stops taking it. Hormonal adaptations occur in response to the abnormal amount of male hormone present in the athlete's body. Cortisol receptor sites and cortisol secretion from the adrenal cortex increase.
    Anabolic steroid use decreases testosterone secretion. People who stop taking steroids are also hampered with less male hormone than usual during the "off" periods. The catabolic effects of cortisol are enhanced when the athlete stops taking the drugs and strength and muscle size are lost at a rapid rate.


    Anabolic steroids may block the effects of hormones such as cortisol involved in tissue breakdown during and after exercise. Anabolic steroids may prevent tissue from breaking down following of an intense work-out. This would speed recovery. Cortisol and related hormones, secreted by the adrenal cortex, also has receptor sites within skeletal muscle cells. Cortisol causes protein breakdown and is secreted during exercise to enhance the use of proteins for fuel and to suppress inflammation that accompanies tissue injury.
    Anabolic steroids may block the binding of cortisol to its receptor sites, which would prevent muscle breakdown and enhances recovery. While this is beneficial while the athlete is taking the drug, the effect backfires when he stops taking it. Hormonal adaptations occur in response to the abnormal amount of male hormone present in the athlete's body. Cortisol receptor sites and cortisol secretion from the adrenal cortex increase.
    Anabolic steroid use decreases testosterone secretion. People who stop taking steroids are also hampered with less male hormone than usual during the "off" periods. The catabolic effects of cortisol are enhanced when the athlete stops taking the drugs and strength and muscle size are lost at a rapid rate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syr
    Uhm I think you misunderstood ALR or whatever. The reason to take anti-e while on cycle (starting after xxx weeks) depends on the androgen used and on the aromatization of itself. Of course there is a build-up.

    Now, cortisol is a different thing, all the time you are "on", the AAS will prevent cortisol from eating your muscles. So, even if there is a cortisol buildup near the end of a cycle (of which I'm not so sure), its fine to start a cortisol blocker just with PCT, not before. Cortisol is more of a daily hormone, not something that accumulates in your body.

    Please quote me some reference if they prove otherwise.
    I think ALR's point was that the body will produce an increased amount of Cortisol to compensate for the AAS.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehead
    Yes, cortisol is raised to combat excess anabolism induced by AAS, and so is estrogen, to keep the ratio of exogenous test to estrogen the same. ALR recommends an estrogen/cortisol therapy while 'on' starting the 3-rd week into a cycle. This helps with gains on cycle and better retention post cycle.
    Personally I think it is a bad idea to use any estrogen blockers whilhe on a testosterone based cycle. There are a lot of benefits to the added estrogen but one of the most important is the increased immune system. I found that out the hard way in the past. I mean there are times that they should be used such as to prevent really bad gyno, control bloat for any particular reason (show, competition, spring break, etc) and a couple others but definitely try to stay away from them as much as possible.
    As for the cortisol blocker I agree with what someone said in this post that the cost does not outweigh the benefit here. The increased A/A properties will greatly outweigh the cost of some say Lean Extreme or possibly more expensive version. I guess it depends on the length of your cycle but if you are doing any decently lengthed AAS cycle (8-12 weeks) it would get quite pricey.
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    I agree with ALR in this case. No need to block cort until at least 3 wks into the cycle. Even then, most of your common gear does it for you. In PCT, it is much more necessary. Cortisol receptors have been upregulated during a cycle and ACTH may or may not also be elevated. Plus, cortisol builds up due to reduced metabolism of it. This occurs because of changes in liver enzymes mutual to anabolics and cortisol that usually break down cortisol. I've written about it recently in some of the SD/ATD post cycle gyno debates recently if you run a search.
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    informative thread.. thanks!

    and also thanks for the E-Book =)
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    where was an ebook posted?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by propho
    informative thread.. thanks!
    I concur
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    whats the best cort blocker compound, i heard 7keto is good
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    where was an ebook posted?!
    Check out post #6.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    bump
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    Any chance of re-upping the book?
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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehead View Post
    Yes, cortisol is raised to combat excess anabolism induced by anabolic steroids, and so is estrogen, to keep the ratio of exogenous test to estrogen the same.
    this obviously isnt true at all, at least about the estrogen.

    unless you are using a steroid that aromatizes or some other drug that keeps your natty test elevated on cycle (HCG), your total E2 will drop on cycle. the #1 reason estrogen goes up is due to aromatization.

    about cortisol - i was under the impression that it was pulsatile, like GH, and swings wildly, mainly for sleep, exercise and stress. suppression of it during and after exercise sounds like a good idea, but reducing the baseline - i heard somewhere that's not what you want....i forget the details.
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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old View Post
    this obviously isnt true at all, at least about the estrogen.

    unless you are using a steroid that aromatizes or some other drug that keeps your natty test elevated on cycle (HCG), your total E2 will drop on cycle. the #1 reason estrogen goes up is due to aromatization.

    about cortisol - i was under the impression that it was pulsatile, like GH, and swings wildly, mainly for sleep, exercise and stress. suppression of it during and after exercise sounds like a good idea, but reducing the baseline - i heard somewhere that's not what you want....i forget the details.
    its pretty much explained earlier in the thread

    Cortisol and related hormones, secreted by the adrenal cortex, also has receptor sites within skeletal muscle cells. Cortisol causes protein breakdown and is secreted during exercise to enhance the use of proteins for fuel and to suppress inflammation that accompanies tissue injury.
    so in other words when blocked from the fat cell receptor sites where it can do damage it can be benificial in skeletal tissue by breaking down proteins to be more easily used for fuel and repair (in the form of aminos) and by removing it completely you would lose this effect..... so blocking OK, removing BAD


    as long as that article is reliable (post #20).

    btw cant belive this threads still alive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poopypants View Post
    so in other words when blocked from the fat cell receptor sites where it can do damage it can be benificial in skeletal tissue by breaking down proteins to be more easily used for fuel and repair (in the form of aminos) and by removing it completely you would lose this effect..... so blocking OK, removing BAD
    i dont think "breakdown of proteins" refers to dietary protein/aminos in this case, but muscle protein breakdown, aka catabolism.

    the ideal scheduling for a cortisol blocker hasnt really been discussed...if a guy was using 7OH or 7OXO or phosphatidylserine, would it be best to use it before, during or after exercise? there is also a surge during REM sleep i believe...it'd be nice of some more knowledgeable people could weigh in, or maybe some hacks like me who at least can scour pubmed...
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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old View Post
    i dont think "breakdown of proteins" refers to dietary protein/aminos in this case, but muscle protein breakdown, aka catabolism.

    the ideal scheduling for a cortisol blocker hasnt really been discussed...if a guy was using 7OH or 7OXO or phosphatidylserine, would it be best to use it before, during or after exercise? there is also a surge during REM sleep i believe...it'd be nice of some more knowledgeable people could weigh in, or maybe some hacks like me who at least can scour pubmed...
    Aha thanks for clarifying... i must have misread/misunderstood and honestly it makes more sense. stupid, stupid, stupid LOL
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    I am not sure I understand the logic behind not using any cortisol blockers during the cycle. People seem to be saying "yes C is catabolic but the anabolic effect of steroids will more than suprass this while you are on cycle". Sure this is true but when someone is on cycle they don't want to lose some muscle from C, gain more muscle from AAS and end up with positive net nitrogen balance; people want to build the maximum amount of muscle possible. So why not block a substance that is catabolic while you are on cycle?

    I may be oversimplifying but this is what I get from this thread thus far...
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    I take one Reduce XT before my workouts, 3 caps total per week, been doing that for a few weeks. Based on what I could figure out, I figured its probably the best way to gain a small advantage without taking the anti-cortisol thing too far.

    Honestly, if there are 2 things, that I really never see clear and consistent advice on, its cortisol control, and use of Insulin supps like R-ALA / KR-ALA / Cinnulin etc.

    My $.02 are now in.
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    Cortisol levels spike in the morning right when we wake up. I've used cort blockers in the fashion of morning, pre wo, and pre-bed before and felt it'd worked really well.
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    Vitamin C helps control cortisol levels and can (should) be taken daily....
    I take at least 1000mg (500mg am 500mg pm) every day and will add additional supps in PCT for cort.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hill5673 View Post
    Vitamin C helps control cortisol levels and can (should) be taken daily....
    interesting. do you have a clinical study on hand to back that up?
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