Superdrol, how harsh is the shutdown?
12-09-2005 08:45 AM
Superdrol, how harsh is the shutdown?
Ok so here's the deal. I did a four week, somewhat harsh, SD cycle 20/30/40/30. Judging by the 'raisin factor' I was shut down pretty hard by then. Going on the general information on the board it seemed, by information posted at that time, that SD recovery was nowhere near as bad as M1T and nolva alone should do it.
So for Nolva I did 40/20/20 starting the last two days of my SD cycle. About half way into week 2 of pct the boys were back to normal size, strength was still the same as on cycle and all seemed well.
So this is what seems to have happened. In the last week of my cycle I was maxing at about a 315 bench. This stayed the same throughout PCT, but on my first chest workout following PCT (about 4 days after PCT ended) I could barely max at 280. I just wrote it off to a bad workout day, low energy, whatever, we all have those days. Unfortunately as time went on it proved to not simply be a bad workout, I had indeed lost a GREAT DEAL of strength. I doubt I could bench the 280 max now.
It seems quite obvious that my test levels were still not back and I was most likely in a great estrogen surplus. This was quite a surprise to me given what I had read about SD.
Given this it seems a more intense PCT should be required for me. I could always go the Nolva/6-oxo or Nolva/Clomid/6-oxo route but that is a LOT of dough to lay out for PCT when compared to other products.
What is the general opinion of a Nolva/HCG PCT running Nolva at 40/20/20/20 and the HCG for the first three weeks of that? I know from what I have read it would seem that HCG may be overkill for a SD PCT but judging from what I have experianced does it seem to make sense?
12-09-2005 10:24 AM
I can typically hold onto my stregnth gains post cycle for about as long as pct lasts, after that they drop gradually. I would say that going from a 315 on cycle bench to a 280 post cycle bench wouldnt be that dramatic, the only weird thing being the almost instantaneous loss after pct. How is libido? acne? soreness after workouts?
perhaps Doctor D. can lend some advice
12-09-2005 10:58 AM
Libido has always been fine (as a matter of fact a small decrease probably wouldn't hurt, I know the wife would appreciate a break, LOL), I wasn't even really affected by M1T and SD seemed to do nothing to the libido but increase it a little. Acne with SD was only present around the time of the 40mg/day dose. As far as soreness goes, nothing notable, nothing more than the normal from pushnig myself at the gym.
Originally Posted by jomi822
12-09-2005 11:00 AM
HCG is an option for any cycle that will shut you down to any significant degree. I was recently having an annoying conversation with someone on another board who apparently thought you should always be able to push up your maxes from on cycle through PCT and beyond. Doesn't always work that way unfortunately. Poundages drop consistently in my opinion during and after PCT by a bit What's important is if you are still over your precycle max by a decent amount.
Originally Posted by movin-iron
Also, what kind of workout are you doing? Going with a strength oriented workout could help a bit in maintaining strength and size gains after PCT. A lot of people don't want to lose any gains after a cycle is complete. Sometimes you get lucky and you don't. But pretty often it's not avoidable. As long as it's minimal loss it's nothing to worry about. Going from 315 to 280 is about a 10% loss at a guess, you really shouldn't be dropping below that. If you do, which I believe you said you have, look more to your diet and training before going for a more aggressive PCT. Nolva should have been adequate for SD.
12-09-2005 11:04 AM
The Chosen One
I ran a 20 week cycle that included all different kinds of anabolics, I did run a bit of HCG but only lost 4 lbs during my actual PCT. If PCT Is run properly, you will not lose a ton imo. It's the people that jump from a bulker to a cutter or do not take the correct supps to ensure a successful PCT that run into issues.
In regards to SD, I did not have any luck with it.. HUGE non responder.
12-09-2005 11:08 AM
I agree with you on all points, that's kind of the odd part. The strength did continue to drop down after PCT and plateaued only slightly (very slightly) above the pre-cycle level. Any loss of strength or size anywhere from 10 - 15% is normal depending upon the compound used during the cycle but a loss of strength and size to this magnitude was quite surprising. My only concern around the HCG is the 150.00 price tag for the three week run. I don't mind spending the money but I would rather save the HCG for once my PH stash runs out.
The diet is very tight and I normally keep with the bulking plan or even up the cals during PCT as a 'just in case', a little fat is easier to lose than lost muscle is to gain back.
12-09-2005 12:07 PM
I used some Creatine Ethyl ester during my PCT along w/ RXT and Nolva, with the other basics like protein, fish oil, etc. and kept all my strength gains from SD along w/ 13 out of 15lbs that i gained on cycle...
12-09-2005 02:32 PM
I'd say save the HCG then. Some other factor, who knows what, probably caused the drop. Take it easy for a week and then go into a strength specific routine, see if you can get back up over 300.
Originally Posted by movin-iron
There is of course the possibility that you pushed yourself too hard on cycle as well. The more extreme you go on cycle, the more the losses will be afterward I find, strengthwise if not masswise. You have to moderate yourself. Aim for a reasonable increase in weight, make up for the rest of your expanded work capacity in volume.
12-09-2005 04:32 PM
I agree CBD. It can be pretty hit or miss and hard to keep track of all the various factors that might be affecting PCT and after...especially for those of us who do not keep a log, lol.
I've run the same standard PCT for several cycles in a row and they all had different endings. Some I maintained all gains, some I lost everything, most were somewhere in between. I think it has a lot to do with the compounds used and how they affect the basic hormonal parameters. The first few cycles of M1T went great but now methyls wreck me..I'm retiring that option for many reasons.
12-09-2005 05:06 PM
Bioman - even the milder ones?
12-10-2005 02:20 PM
Probably still use stuff like M OHN and Mdien..those treated me pretty well.
SD and M1T are off my list for a while..love the gains but they come at too high of a price. It really has me torn, lol, SD is awesome stuff but man, I seriously lost my marbles on it. I've got too much going on in my life to jeopardize it with severe..albeit temporary depression.
12-10-2005 02:52 PM
I remembered you saying much good about those 2 in particular.
agreed about depression: it's much under-recognised as a cause of misery in the world, and EVERY opportunity to avoid it should be taken.
did it hit you at any dose? what was your dosing?
12-10-2005 03:49 PM
I'm fairly sensitive to androgens as it is so I stick with low dosing..5 mg for M1T and 10 mg for SD.
I've gone upwards of 100mg for M4OHN with no problems..but no additional benefits over 40 mg either.
Yeah, nothing like being borderline suicidal to really help your training program along. Diet suffers the most. Fortunately, I am aware of these sides so the rational part of me can maintain normality..however it's just plain miserable and cycles are supposed to be FUN! imo
Nothing wrong with test and natural test derivatives!
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