Why don't certain supplements work?
- 11-07-2005, 01:10 PM
- 11-07-2005, 01:33 PM
- 11-07-2005, 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by prolangtum
11-07-2005, 03:19 PM
Our bodies are not all the same, in fact were very different from each other. We obviously have the same basic functions and organs but the way our bodies respond to meds and supps, food, etc can be very different. It all comes down to genetics
11-07-2005, 03:25 PM
its the truth. thats why there are some that are diabetic, thats why i cant eat watermelon(im allergic), thats why some are more prone to cancer, and thats why something might work for me but give you the ****s. lol. but id have to say i feel for those who hav e to spend all that money and get nothing, thank goodness i respond very well to just about anything i take.Originally Posted by jminis
11-10-2005, 03:43 PM
The truth is that most supplements are just wishful thinking. I'm about to graduate in Clinical Exercise Physiology and we do research on supplements all the time. All those supplements are tested on Rats and other lab animals but when tested on humans don't produce any where close to the same results, if any at all. If you can get onto any of the on line medical journals try searching you supplements buy the chemicals/ingredients in them. You will be highly disappointed. Nothing over the counter is really going to cause anything to drastic in growth unless you are a 1 in a million freak that responds to anything. The physiques we admire are all genetic, anabolic steroids, and most of the time both. Sorry to ruin anyones day.
11-10-2005, 03:59 PM
I could put together a Herbal/supplment regimen that could rival Moderate anabolic steroid cycle give or take 2-3 lbs.Originally Posted by rippednick
11-10-2005, 04:06 PM
I would say... based on a overwhelming user feed back.. Cissus definately works. It had for me, and the difference is like night and day.
And I'm not just saying that to suck up to the guy above me..
It's just that good.
Point is some suppliments actually work very well.
11-10-2005, 04:08 PM
if you can give me an herbal supp that will give me 17 lbs in 4 weeks then id like to see it. and that is the kind of gain i get off a "moderate" dosed cycle (recomended dosage and no more). if it could even give me 12 lbs in that time period (what i keep after PCT) then it would be well worth it. but ive yet to see or cissus deliver these kind of results to anyone. am i not looking hard enough?Originally Posted by USPLabs
11-10-2005, 04:34 PM
I guess the guy with the herbs must be a 1 in a million guy because comparing the supplements I have taken to the 1000s of milligrams I have taken of AAS is like comparing a candle to a forest fire. Not even a close comparison can be made for the average man and yes I only have average genetics. If you would please run a gram of test and 700mg of tren a week which is only a mild cycle in the big scale of things then compare that to your DHEA,, Trib, M1T, Creatine, , Ect...., No way man. You must be blessed with some great genetics.
11-10-2005, 04:37 PM
Plus you cant deny the 1000s of sports medicine research articles out there on these supplements. If you have great genetics you cant tell others that they will look like you if only you take this magic pill.
11-10-2005, 04:44 PM
If 1000's of miligrams is moderate than we are 2 different beasts.Originally Posted by rippednick
You must take into account reward, risk, and recovery. You can gain 15lbs off a 6 week cycle, but you will end up at around 10-12lbs.
With proper nutrition and supplementation, you can gain 6-10 lbs in 6 weeks without risk.
11-10-2005, 04:46 PM
All supplements are not tested on animals, we have live human vivo samples.Originally Posted by rippednick
From researching all the time, you should have crossed some live trial or a simple medline search would suffice.
11-10-2005, 04:55 PM
"but when tested on humans don't produce any where close to the same results", the only supplement I have come across that shows definitive results consistantly is Creatine but everyone already takes that so its not new info. The prohoromones that were recently developed and then banned worked almost as well as a mild AAS but their side effects out weighed there benefits in the clinical trials. Read more clearly bro, and please share your herb stack that puts on so much muscle. Im not trying to be rude but if you do infact have a stack that works better than any other combo I want to know about it. If you ever find a sack to rival trens results, I want to be the first to know. I no longer use AAS and just stick to nutrition and training. God Bless
11-10-2005, 05:27 PM
If you are seriously really knowledgeable about sups, what is the best new fat burner on the market that wont kill my appetite? I haven't looked into them since ephedrine was banned so I'm up for anything.
11-10-2005, 05:51 PM
Well it happens with drugs all the time. The Drug works wonders in animal studies but a flops in vivo.
You do research on supplements all the time, and this board is filled with anecdotal feedback. It would be impossible to change your mind in one post since you research "supplements all the time."
I wish you the best in your natural training endeavors.
11-10-2005, 06:21 PM
Back to the question at hand, there are lots of reasons why supplements don't work. One, define work. They may work as they have in in vitro and in vivo studies, that doesn't always translate to much of anything in the real world where more variables are at play.
Take NO supplements. They do 'work' in that they increase blood flow. They give great pumps. However, if the delivery of nutrients from the blood stream to the muscle cells isn't the major limiting factor in growth, the increased blood flow won't do anything much at all.
Two, underdosing. For the supplements that work, often the products are crammed full of other crap. Cheaper crap than the supplement that works. So they can say "Look at all this STUFF" that's supposed to do exactly the same thing. Glucophase clones are like this.
Why the hell are you going to add cinnamon to a fat burner when the ingredients already in there are doing the job, doing it better, and along the same metabolic pathways as the main ingredients, making the additional stuff pointless? Answer: more money to be made per bottle with lower doses of expensive stuff that works and additional subsances that might 'work' a little, but in context are pointless but still enough to fool most people into buying the product.
Three, bull****. The main reason probably. Compounds supposedly tested in Russia in the 50s that caused explosive growth and all the kind of nonsense.
So, to evaluate whether or not a product works or not, you need to first define works, so you look it up and see if it's bull**** or not which is not hard to tell most times, and then see, if it does work, will it pan out to any real world results toward your goals as it's working?
11-10-2005, 07:53 PM
USPLabs, you really arent making any sense. Who changed their mind? All I did was repeat what I said earlier than go more into depth. I really must have insulted your intelligence because you apperently took offense and didnt even offer to tell me about the awsome stack you take or about some new fat burners. And how do you do research on medline? Did you subscribe? Have you ever used medline if you did get axcess? Its over loaded and you cant find what you are looking for. As for your "anecdotal feedback" most of the results posted are beefed up and have you ever heard of the placebo effect? You seem somewhat educated in anatomy and physiology so I would expect a better understanding of research and what makes things valid or not. I ment no offense but now that you are some what attacking me Im just gona have to drop this thread. If you believe all sups work then by all means keep taking them, its not my money. No offense to anybody please, Ill just keep my educated opinion to myself and never represent the medical community and what they have taught me again. God Bless and goodnight.
11-11-2005, 10:39 AM
I failed to find the educated opinion in your thread besides "supplements do not work" beacuse "I research them all the time."Originally Posted by rippednick
WIth all the boards, Results may be "beefed" up, but with AM members, The feedback is straight forward. This community is tight laced and for the most part are interested in helping.
11-11-2005, 10:53 AM
It takes two to tango.Originally Posted by prolangtum
If consumers didn't get for magical products then the industry wouldn't put out mythical products that do jack ****.
11-11-2005, 10:55 AM
a lot of supps don't work, which is why i stick to the basics. Only times i've strayed are using Activate and PowerFULL/cissus and i've loved both.
Maybe you should just chill out with the supp buying and let others report feedback before you waste money. Damn that's what I do!
11-11-2005, 11:16 AM
You are killing me bro, one person who has seen the numbers disagrees with you and you have a cow. You should read "theory and applications to fitness and performance", there is a chapter on ergogenic aids. ACSM, NSCA, and other national orgs all publish their information on ergogenic aids as well. Even better than medline is pubmed, they are more organized with better key word searches. The sportsdiscuss is a descent journal for you as well. My degree in exercise physiology and certifications in the HFI and CSCS all mean I have reached a high standard, they speak for themselves. I see you are a board sponser, are you a supps salesman? Is that why you are getting so offended? Well good luck to you and your chat room research. What you should do is run blood test and have a controlled group and placebo group to run along side the test group in a double blind study. Publish your numbers with details on the blood work, and compare the fibers cross sectional area between the control and test groups. I have a large collection of research abstracts sitting right beside me, if you would like I can post a refference to each one of them so everyone can have a look themselves. It will take some time but if thats what it takes to convince a chat room research specialist ill do it. Well i have a biomechanics test to get to, wish me luck and God Bless.
11-11-2005, 11:24 AM
Oh yeah and before anyone says I said supplements dont work, I said most supplements dont work. Creatine works, M1-t worked, glutamine works wonders for burn patients but still hasnt shown any twinkle of hope for bodybuilding, vasodilators work for just that, but show no increase in gains when compared to placebo, arginine/lysine/ornithine cause slight increases in HGH but have yet to show increases in gains over placebo. Thats what i mean by most supps dont work for building muscle in humans.
11-11-2005, 11:37 AM
11-11-2005, 11:56 AM
11-11-2005, 11:57 AM
11-11-2005, 01:39 PM
hey rippednick def talk to USPLabs, he has a few products that definitely work.
and btw, M1T is a steroid, not a supplement, and def not on the same page as glutamine and creatine.
11-11-2005, 01:59 PM
you are correct in that it is a steroid, but you can supplement anything. "Something added to complete a thing to strengthen the whole." I can supplement testosterone if i want to. Its just a relative term used to describe ergogenic aids. I put them in the same catagory because they were all over the counter at one time. Any questions?
11-12-2005, 01:01 AM
11-13-2005, 03:44 PM
Much of the science is concluded from rat studies. We aren't rats, so that should tell you something.Originally Posted by b_delgros
11-13-2005, 04:05 PM
Ephedrine isn't banned unless it was done in the past few months when my back was turned . Ephedra was a while back but you can still easily get ephedrine.Originally Posted by rippednick
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11-13-2005, 05:32 PM
neither ephedra or ephedrine are currently banned. That ban was actually reversed, thanks to the diligent efforts of a few supp producers proving to a judge that the ban was invalid based on science, and showing that the dangers of ephedra were unfounded. Too bad many others in the supp biz don't make that kind of effort! And to those who do, props!
11-13-2005, 10:57 PM
I meant to write ephedra, sorry. I had no idea it was back on the market though. Im glad to know that, Im gona have to hit that up before spring break. Thanks guys
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