SAMe as part of PCT?

[yeahright]

SAMe is sold as a supplement for among other lings, helping to repair liver damage. The evidence for its efficacy appears to be mixed......but it seems to me that it might be a reasonable addition to a liver protection portion of PCT. Here's a link but google will bring up a ton of links (ranging from greatest thing in the world to total bunk).
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/liver/a/aa011015a.htm

Any thoughts?

[shootmeagain]

Sounds reasonable as an addition. Not only for the liver benefit but perhaps also for the mood benefit.

[Rogue Drone]

I believe one can take TriMethylGlycine (TMG, aka Betaine) to raise SAMe levels and methylation for a lot less than striaght SAMe.

[judge-mental]

SAMe ED, its what I have to say. the supplement is under the radar, partly due to cost of good enetric caoted SAMe.

[WheyGood]

In discussions about liver health, I don't recall ever seeing SAMe (or SAM-e) supplementation mentioned.

I am aware of SAMe as a possible treatment for depression, but recently came across an article on its potential benefits to the liver and joints. One drawback of SAMe -- it's fairly expensive.

With all the knowledge on this board, I figured someone might be able to weigh in on this topic. Thanks.

[Schwaugher]

Here are some passages ive cut and pasted from various web sites. SAMe is a good liver protector but its too expensive for me to use it the way i want. But maybe i can use the other ingredients to for SAMe in my body. TMG, L-methionine, and a good B-complex should do the trick, exspecially since i already take a b-complex.

Protecting and Improving Liver Function
S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe). SAMe is a methylation agent (a methyl group donor) and is necessary for the synthesis of glutathione. Medical studies have shown that SAMe has beneficial antioxidant effects on the liver and other tissues, particularly in protecting and restoring liver cell function destroyed by the hepatitis C virus. SAMe decreases the production of liver collagen, which leads to the formation of fibrous tissue (Deulofeu et al. 2000). SAMe is found naturally in every cell of the body. It is synthesized from a combination of the amino acid L-methionine, folic acid, vitamin B12, and trimethylglycine, provided all these ingredients are present and performing (Anon. 2002).

Free-radical damage is a major mechanism by which ethanol damages the liver. As has already been discussed, supplementing with the right antioxidants while consuming ethanol significantly reduces damage to cells throughout the body, including damage to the liver. Ethanol also damages the liver by depressing an enzyme required to convert methionine into S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe) (Mato et al. 1994). A deficiency of SAMe can predispose an alcoholic to develop liver cirrhosis. Alcohol-induced depletion of SAMe can be overcome by SAMe supplementation which restores hepatic SAMe levels and significantly reduces ethanol-induced liver injury (Lieber 1997; 2000a; 2000b; 2000c).
Supplementation with 400-800 mg of SAMe twice a day will help to protect the liver from damaging oxidation that may lead to further degenerative disease. For those who cannot afford SAMe, supplementation with 500 mg of trimethylglycine (TMG, also known as glycine betaine), 800 micrograms of folic acid, and 500 micrograms of vitamin B12, taken twice a day, could help the liver to synthesize S-adenosylmethionine.

Studies show that low SAMe levels create the conditions for liver cancer, and that SAMe can prevent these conditions from occurring.
SAMe is the central player in liver biochemistry. It does two crucial things: It methylates, and it transforms itself into the liver's most vital substance, glutathione. Glutathione is crucial for liver function. A good portion of liver SAMe is turned into glutathione, which is the liver's natural antioxidant

Treat hepatitis and other liver disorders. By producing the extremely powerful antioxidant glutathion, which enhances the liver's ability to clear out toxins, SAMe promotes efficient liver function. Research indicates that SAMe may benefit liver function impaired by alcohol-induced cirrhosis, drug toxicity, hepatitis, and cholestasis.

Dosage Information
Special tips:
--Look for enteric-coated SAMe; it's more readily absorbed by the body in this form and remains chemically stable for much longer (the coating protects it from exposure to air).

To avoid a toxic buildup of homocysteine molecules (which are formed when SAMe breaks down) be sure to take a high-quality vitamin B complex supplement along with SAMe. These vitamins disarm homocysteine, which in high concentrations poses the risk of various health problems including heart attack and stroke. A standard recommendation is to take 100 mg of a B complex once a day, regardless of the SAMe dose.
If you're particularly sensitive to medications, start out with half the recommended daily dosage and work up to the full amount after a week.
For liver disorders: Take 400 mg of SAMe twice a day. If symptoms fail to improve after three weeks, try increasing your dose to 400 mg three times a day. On the other hand, if symptoms lessen with 400 mg twice a day, you can try to lower the dose to 200 mg twice a day.

Guidelines for Use

SAMe is best absorbed on an empty stomach, so try to take it about one hour before or two hours after meals. If nausea or heartburn develop, take it with plenty of water.
To prevent insomnia, don't take SAMe late in the day. Most people report a mild energy boost with the supplement.
SAMe can safely be combined with other natural antidepressants such as St. John's wort, as well as conventional antidepressants.
Purchase SAMe from a reliable company whose quality standards you trust. If improperly handled, the raw material used to make SAMe can deteriorate rapidly, making these costly supplements weak or even inactive. Look for "pharmaceutical grade" products and opt for a more stable form called "butanedisulfonate" rather than "tosylate."

[WheyGood]

Thanks for the info, Schwaugher. Supplementing with TMG in addition to a good B complex (with decent amounts of B6, B12, and folic acid) seems like the smart way to go.

I'm thinking one or two Whey shakes a day would provide ample amounts of L-methionine.

[bioman]

I was watching a UCLA channel lecture on liver health and treatments and they did mention SAMe as being a beneficial supplement. That surprised me as it was a completely western med seminar.

I've used it for depression and it did work, however the effects seemed to lessen over time. It was a little too pricey for me to stay on and I had to use a dose of 400 mg per day.

[oswizzle]

would this stuff be good for an SD cycle....does anyone have any exp with this stuff?

Support of Liver Function: S-ADENOSYL-L-METHIONINE

SAMe aids the liver in neutralizing toxins, free radicals and carcinogens. Because of SAMe's effects on the liver, it enhances the elimination of various drugs from the body.
SAMe has also been shown to protect the liver and body from the effects of excess and unbalanced estrogen levels, seen in some estrogen replacement therapy, oral contraceptive use, and premenstrual syndrome.

[yeahright]

It doesn't seem to be a popular supplement among the bodybuilding crowd but there are numerous studies that would indicate that it should be a standard part of the protocol. In europe, it's even prescribed to help reverse alcohol-induced liver damage. I personally use it for on-cycle and pct purposes.

[oswizzle]

right on bro....so u dont think this stuff will hinder the gain from any of the Methyl Oral ? and its best to take it On cycle and Through PCT?

[yeahright]

right on bro....so u dont think this stuff will hinder the gain from any of the Methyl Oral ? and its best to take it On cycle and Through post cycle therapy?

I have no idea and am not qualified to venture an opinion as to whether SAMe will hinder gains, and its relative efficacy during cycle and/or in post-cycle therapy. My academic credentials are not in the medical field so don't listen to what I say as anything more than the opinion of a stranger from the internet.

With that disclaimer out of the way, I use it pre, during and post-cycle and then stop using it. The medical literature I've read indicates that this is the real deal in actually repairing liver damage brought on by external toxins such as alcohol. I've made the extrapolation that it would be a very helpful supporting supplement when intaking methylated supplements. I could be wrong but it is what I do.

Perhaps someone with actual medical (or related) training would venture an opinion here and help us both out?

[akp2004]

Yes, SAM-e is good stuff.

And you may also like TMG (tri-methylglycine) which is cheaper, and works similar paths.

K-RALA + NAC have direct bodybuilding effects, so you get good bang for you buck by using them as to support your bodybuilding, and help with your liver and overall anti-oxidant needs.

[LakeMountD]

I believe one can take TriMethylGlycine (TMG, aka Betaine) to raise SAMe levels and methylation for a lot less than striaght SAMe.

I posted in article in the other thread showing that TMG raises LDL cholesterol, and even so enough that it could possibly offset the positive heart effects that it has.