Sky9, Dmitry and all others using DHEA trans

WittyName

WittyName

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I was reading an interesting post about DHEA and was wondering if you guys thought there was any truth to this, O btw I am also doing a DHEA trans i have been doing it 300gms for 5 weeks now. This is why i was curious.


Only a few randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies on the effects of DHEA supplementation have been published. Two have demonstrated significant increases in androgenic steroid plasma levels, along with subjective improvements in physical and psychological well-being, while supplementing with 50 mg/day for 6 months (40) or 100 mg/day for up to 12 months (41). Whether DHEA has any effect on body composition or fat distribution is still unclear. Its effect on healthy individuals younger than 40 years old is also virtually unstudied.

DHEA users have reported few adverse effects from the supplement, but one is irreversible virilization in women, including hair loss, hirsutism, and voice deepening (42). In addition, men have reported irreversible gynecomastia, which may result from an elevation in estrogen levels. Because this supplement is so new, long-term adverse effects are unknown. Unlike most other nutrition supplements, DHEA may substantially increase the risk of uterine and prostate cancer that accompanies prolonged elevation in the levels of unopposed estrogen and testosterone. Therefore, the safety of this supplement must be questioned.

Of particular interest to competitive athletes is the effect that DHEA supplementation may have on the test used by the International Olympic Committee and NCAA in their screening for exogenous testosterone use. Using DHEA could alter the testosterone-epitestosterone ratio so it exceeds the 6:1 limit set by both groups (personal communication, Don Catlin, MD, 1997); thus DHEA users could risk disqualification from international competition.

Given the lack of evidence that DHEA enhances athletic performance and its potentially devastating adverse effects, DHEA supplementation is not recommended.


<b>References</b>
Thomas D. Armsey Jr, MD; Gary A. Green, MD
THE PHYSICIAN AND SPORTSMEDICINE - VOL 25 - NO. 6 - JUNE 97
 
bioman

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It's a sort of half-truthful statement. Linking it to cancer without evidence is what the FDA is harping on. If you already have cancer cells that react or feed off of a specific hormone like estradiol and you elevate that hormone, then yes it will make it worse. I for one, have never seen conclusive evidence that natural hormones "cause cancer". That would be maladaptive as hell from an evolutionary perspective, IMO. Certainly there's lines of cancers that are made exponentially worse by a particular hormone, but that does indicate direct causality.

Interesting article in Life Extension magazine highlighting a study that used DHEA as a vaginal suppository and it caused 10 out of 12 women with cervical dysplasia to go into complete remission. The other 2 went into near remission. Cervical dysplasia is a pre-cancerous if left untreated.

On the other hand, DHEA is substrate for so many other hormones that I don't use it for very long (only for PCT). It is a precursor to hormones other than steroids so that makes me worry about skewing some other part of the endocrine system like the adrenals. It's one of those hormones with such wide ranging and cascading effectst that I'd like to see more studies before I supplement regularly or heavily...just my 2 cents.
 
WittyName

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Thanks for the info Bio. What did u think about the gyno statement?
 
Grunt76

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I use transdermal DHEA with 6-oxo. I would use it with formestane, but a good AI is important IMO. I for one wouldn't use DHEA without an AI.
 
Alpha Dog

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A couple of thoughts:

1. The majority of studies I have read indicate that DHEA is beneficial to both men over 40 and hypogonadal men. Why? DHEA is converted to androstendione and then to either estrogen or testosterone. The rate limiting step is the male body is its endogenous hormone levels. If test levels are moderate to high, endogenous test levels become the rate limiting step and conversion of androstenedione favors estrogen. This is why male users with healthy testosterone levels can experience gnyocomastia (exception is number 3). Also, by definition, we are in a hypogonadal state post cycle. This is why I believe dhea supplementation is beneficial during pct for those of all ages.

2. With regards to increased cancer risks, see bio’s post above.

3. The exception to #1 is if we can decrease the enzymatic conversion of androstenedione to estrogen. This is where suicide inhibitors can change the balance. If we decrease the amount of aromatase enzymes available for conversion of androstenedione and estrogen to test, then dhea may be beneficial to men of all ages with regards to athletic performance.
 
bioman

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That about covers it, lol. Thanks Bow.

I DO think it is interesting to see a few members try this DHEA/Ai technique as I think it holds some promise..especially for a little extra edge in cutting.

Keep us updated on the results.
 
DmitryWI

DmitryWI

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This is why I wouldn't use DHEA without some kind of AI. And I'm sure those 2 packs of cigarettes I smoked today done more damage to me than 4 weeks of DHEA.
 
motiv8er

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While we are on the subject though, would it have to be an AI used with DHEA? What benefits/negatives would nolva or clomid have that an AI wouldn't? Could the DHEA/AL cycle be made slightly* more anabolic by using a low dose SERM?

All speculation, but I would value your opinions.
 
bioman

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With Nolva you'd basically be protecting your breast tissue from the estrogen build up and maybe stay a little drier. The AI would be better IMO because you're keeping the DHEA>andro from going down the pathway and converting to E in the first place. Presumably, you get more androgenic-anabolic effects that way.
 

Sky9

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Good find here on the study Witty. I have to say from my experience this has been a great stack for me with nothing but positive results so far. I have slight puffy nips, pubertal psyuedo gyno if you want to call it that. No lumps, just a genetic fat deposite area along with my love handles. I dont think anyone really notices but me, but everyone is thier own worst critic. Anyways, since being on this cycle I have definitely decreased fat by at least a couple % points, which is very noticable. I have gained muscle and feel great. My puffy nips have gone down due to the reduction in bodyfat, so that is good. The only draw back is a slight decrease in libido after the first week and I think it might be due to the ATD acting as a SARM. I just kind of think of myself as being a normal guy now, and not so much of a horny bastard all the time, which is probably ok. Even still I have dropped my ATD to 25mgED before bed for the last 2 weeks and kept my DHEA at 200mgED in the morning for the full four weeks.

From my experience this is a great cutter or lean bulking cycle with little to no side effects.
 
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