low testosterone guys at 17
- 10-02-2005, 03:23 PM
low testosterone guys at 17
hi people im wondering if you would input any suggestions or comments in my low testosterone. I recently posted this in the bodybuilding.com forum and would like to know what you lot think this is what i posted.
Alright let me explain my situation, I am 17, i started going to the gym since February, and like 4 months into going to the gym i completely lost my libido, and felt very tired all the time and begining to loose interest in the world.I am not overtraining, and i have got my diet fixed, I have learnt everything from this forum. So ok i decided to get my blood test done as i explained my situation to the doctor. The next week i got my blood test........AND this is cannot be happening to me.
Serum Sodium 140 nmol/L (136-145U)
Serum Potassium 4.2 nmol/L (3.5-5.1U)
Serum Creatinine 90 umol/L (75-125U)
Serum Urea Level 10.5 nmol/L (3.0-7.5U) <-----high
Thyroid Function test:
Serum TSH level 1.18uIU/ml (0.35-4.94U) <------low end
Serum free T4 level 16.7 pmol/L (9.0-19.0U)
Serum fasting glucose level:
Plasma glucose level 3.4mmol/L (3.0-6.0U)<----low end of range?
Serum VItamin B12:
Serum vitamin B12 945 ng/L (179-1162U)
Serum folate 5.9 ug/L (2.7-34.0U) <-----low end
R Testosterone test:
Serum testosterone 6.4 nmol/L (10.5-31.0U) <---OH MY GOSH
I think 6.4 can be translated to 184ng/dl
OH MY GOSH I DONT BELIEVE IT IT CANT BE........THE WHOLE DAY I WAS JUST STARING AT THE FIGURE ITS NOT EVEN IN THE RANGE NOT EVEN IN THE LOW END OF THE RANGE......BUT WAY OUT OF THE RANGE!!! Im 17 wats going to happen to me,,,,,,,it looks like i have to quit bodybuilding right?bodybuilding is my life... Life is gonna crash down....Dont wanna go on HRT im only 17.....only 17
Serum Prolaction test:
Serum prolactin level 194 mU/L (54-380U)
Full blood count- FBC
Haemoglobin estimation 13.6g/dl (11.0-18.0U)
Total white cell count 3.69 (4.00-11.00U)<--Low! wat the crap
Platelet count 244 (130-450U)
My blood test was taken in the morning at around 9:30am.....this is when test levels is meant to be highest i just cant believe my test levels is this low AND IM 17!!! i just dont know what to do now......I definitely dont wanna go on HRT I wanna try another alternative to increase my testosterone level....I dont know why but my libido has decrease drastically in the past 4 months and i use to be horney every single second literally. Wat has gone wrong with me? My doc said although it is out of the range it is still "normal" As it may be "normal" for your body...WAT DA F***....Hes asked me to get another blood test in 3 months and if it is that low still to discuss the options.....I just dont get it. what should i do? I thought i was doing ok in the gym gaining some bit and there sometimes but maybe cause im a newbie. Can i go on HCG?CLomid? ANYTHING!!! i just dont want to go on HRT im just too young.
im just confused...yesterday i was just sitting there starin at the paper with no emotion and really silent felt like i was dead. bodybuilding is my life......what should i do? I need some real desperate help from all you out there especially those with low test.......I have never seen anyone on here with a blood test outside the range as well...maybe just on the lower end of the range. I learnt a lot of things from this forum my diet is 40/40/20 and i am taking multi vitamins, right now on creatine mon, fish oil, oats, clean healthy food. Train 3 times a week with splits.
does it only look like the prohormones are my only way up? i really dont wanna quit bodybuilding. and dont wanan take HRT as i said im only 17 havent even lived 20% of my life.
please somewhere there help me
can you help me also explain my other levels from my test results.
thanks guys any help is appreciated
- 10-02-2005, 04:40 PM
You're only 17. Most guys don't stop growing completely until they're about 25. You've got 8 years for those hormones to fluctuate; don't worry so much right now.
Get regular tests done, and if things are not getting better after a long time then you can start to worry.
Hell, I'm about to be 22 and I don't even have facial hair yet. My best friend's grandfather didn't start getting facial hair until he had turned 25. Everyone is different and grows at different paces. Just relax and see how things pan out over time.
- 10-02-2005, 04:41 PM
Also, you need to change your age under your avatar. Don't start out here lying.
10-02-2005, 04:50 PM
Good catch. I saw that too but didnt post anything because i figured a mod would step in pretty soon.Originally Posted by TheCrownedOne
10-02-2005, 05:06 PM
Chill out bro.
HRT isn't a big deal.
There is a guy I work with that told me he's been on 100 mg/week injections for years.
Seriously, step away from the pill bottle/knife.
10-02-2005, 08:42 PM
Just relax. I read an article in Muscular Development that challenge the idea that test levels are highest from 16-25. I think it was last year and if I am remembering right it was written by Carlon Colker. You are the second person this week who I have seen threads about low test under 21 which makes me think that maybe he was right. Just look at what is going on in your life right now, you mentioned a "clean" diet which can mean a lot of different things, start there, then look at stress and emotional strain. There are many studies corrolating depression and low test levels (it's a chicken or the egg thing though), then consider what you have ingested or invovled yourself in recently as far as medication ar recreational drug use, finally DO NOT STOP TRAINING, this is not an unsupassable wall before you, it is merely an obstacle that you will have to be masterfull in overcoming. Live the life that brings you happiness. Start at the begining and work your way back. Any PH/PS/AAS/ATD/Serm use in the past?
10-03-2005, 05:04 AM
my only supplements i have taken are ephedrine hcl, caffeine, creatine monohydrate, whey protein, multivitamins, zma for like 3 weeks, calcium, l'carnitine, no ph or anything like that. Wat did the muscle magazine say? even though it maybe true...howcomes i did have a raging sex drive and now its like diminished......
also how have you been doing in the gym despite the slow growth of facial hair
Thanks guys for all these help
10-03-2005, 05:11 AM
Now this is interesting, and actually makes sense.Originally Posted by Dungeon1
Every guy I see that gets started lifting in their later 20s tends to grow pretty damn fast relative to most of the kids in the gym, so its a reasonable assertion.
If you hear anymore info on it, update us
10-03-2005, 07:22 AM
I take all of my old mags into the gym. I may be able to find the article and reread it, but I am pretty sure his assertion was that high test in young adulthood was a myth. I believe that he stated that test was highest at around 30. Which would make sense if you look at bodybuilders; most of them don't reach there potential until after 30.
10-03-2005, 07:33 AM
low thyroid , low sugar low test could be not eating enough for for what your body needs and the creatine running throu gh the kidneys could be helping to create the rest at that age IMO.
10-03-2005, 03:01 PM
When I was a teen and started weightlifting at about age 15, I shot up from 170lbs to 210lbs in about 1 and a half years. No joke. I have an incredible amount of stretchmarks to prove it.
I didn't know anything about diet or anything about bodybuilding. All I did was flat bench and squats, as recommended by my PE teacher. I grew like crazy and had insane libido/testosterone.
But I ate literally like 4,000-6,000 kcal a day. Not intentionally, I was just starving. And it was extremely dirty kcals.
I think the problem we are seeing with teen bodybuilders and low natural testosterone, is all because of diet. The diet is actually too clean and consist of not enough calories, for full optimum development to take place.
Don't get me started on very young teens trying to cut below 6-7% bodyfat, rediculous. I can understand an 18 year old who wants to compete in a bodybuilding competition. But for a developing young man, to go on a cut to get below 6-7% bodyfat, when he is like 13-17 years old, is just a hormonal/thyroidal/developmental **** storm.
My recommendation would be to seriously up the calories, drop all isolation lifts, and do COMPOUND LIFTS. Get lots of rest, don't be afraid to get a little chubby. Then when you get to be around 20 years old, go on a cut and get back on your lifelong healthy diet.
Food is anabolic, food is pro-hormonal (not a pro-hormone, pro-hormonal) for those who can optimally use it, and thats what a teenage body does, optimally use any kind of food you give it. SO EAT!
Also if your still taking things like ephedrine/caffeine, stop it. In some men, there will be too much adrenaline stimulation from these types of supplements, resulting in extremely low blood flow to you private parts. This goes away when you discontinue said product, but if you were on any stims for a long period of time before the blood test, it might of effected it.
10-03-2005, 03:24 PM
I think its time for some honesty. Have you taken any pro hormone/steroids? not using proper post cycle treatment could explain your test levels. i find it unusual that a 17 year old would think HRT, HCG, and chlomid, unless someone recommended it already at BB.com.
10-05-2005, 11:07 AM
well I can say I had similar problems at 15 btu it was due to lack of eating, and lack of sleep.
but beyond that I had no test probs,
then again I ate fats, and not always ate a clean diet.
10-05-2005, 12:51 PM
Most excellent.Originally Posted by dark_star
10-05-2005, 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by Dungeon1
You have any idea what issue of MD that article was in. I find that highly interesting.
10-05-2005, 08:00 PM
I can't remember, but like I said I am in the process of reviewing all of the mags that I still have access to. I will let everyone know if I find it. Hell, I'll scan it and put it up on this thread if I do.
10-05-2005, 08:20 PM
how about you confess to us that you use m1t for awhile! thats why you completely blunted your testes from ever producing test efficiently...it is a teste killer for kids under the age of 21.....it could have happened...i am not saying it did happen though...just be honest with us, so we can give you honest answers
10-06-2005, 02:03 AM
10-06-2005, 05:03 AM
Chill everyone.. .if he wants some real advise that is pertinent to his problem, he would or will give us all the factors. If not, he will just be getting advice that wont help his situation at all... its all in his court. His life.
10-06-2005, 09:15 AM
I have upped my calories to around 800 over maintiainence i have been eating like crazy....Im at the moment around 16% bodyfat now been long term bulking for around 3 months from 13% bodyfat.Originally Posted by TheTom
And yes ive been making gains in the gym, but probs newbie gains. I just had a surge of gains on my bench press incline and flat by about 25 lbs in a space of 6 weeks....I went from 130lbs to 200lbs bench press so far.....However nowadays i get so tired and dont have that PUMP feeling as i did during my start of low test. I also am much stronger than i actually look so i dont know, is that a symptom of low test. I started off at a weight of 130lbs and 12% bodyfat and now im around 154lbs and 16% bodyfat. I started training in around feb, and i made good gains probs all these are newbie gains and i stopped in end of may for 2 whole month cos of exams a lot of work. When i came back i lost a huge amount of strenght already!, And took me about 4 weeks to get back to where i was.
10-06-2005, 09:17 AM
Mate i do not confess that i used any prohormone or any pro steroid or watever. Because the simple truth is i never ever...I admit i have thought of it but then i researched and researched and knew that the side effects ouweigh a lot of just a couple of lbs of muscle..Im still a newbie and i knew i would gain strength without the neeed of these. I wouldnt even post if i knew i had take a PH cycle prior to my symptoms of low test and results. Cos then i would KNOW that its due to the ph cycle.Originally Posted by ryanbodybuilder
10-06-2005, 09:19 AM
i have not taken any pro hormone or steroids. Why do you find it unusual that a 17 year old would not know about HRT and HCG and Chlomid.....Ive been reading as well about people suffering from low test and i know what these things do.Originally Posted by jomi822
10-06-2005, 09:20 AM
cheers mate it will be a big help if you do......I will still question why i experienced a lowered libido meaning my high test may have dropped to a low test.Originally Posted by Dungeon1
10-07-2005, 12:26 AM
Originally Posted by dark_star
This is 100% normal. If you take 2 months off from powerlifting, it should take about half the time to gain your strength back, which is 4 weeks.
I think you should retest, it might of just been a fluke, its known to happen from time to time.
Low Testosterone and being tired, is kind of a theory, more than a fact. Women have low testosterone, and they aren't always tired.
The low testosterone number might of just been a fluke, and you might have some other condition, that makes you tired.
Also, your gains were good
"I went from 130lbs to 200lbs bench press so far"
"I started off at a weight of 130lbs and 12% bodyfat and now im around 154lbs and 16% bodyfat."
These are not signs of low test, those are very good gains, even if they were newbie gains.
Also, I think the reason you are stronger than you look, is because your CNS is developing faster than your muscularity.
They will catch up to each other in due time.
Keep lifting, Keep eating, Keep resting, live the lifestyle, get your Testosterone retested, find out a cure for your tiredness, and all will be well young blood.
10-08-2005, 03:30 PM
I'm thoroughly disappointed that out of all the great minds here, not ONE has mentioned how eratic and unreliable serum T is. He needs free/bioavailable test measured. If after repeated blood tests he still has low T, he needs TRT or possibly some sort of SERM to try to 'kick start' the HPTA. (SWALE is very good at this with younger folks). I never understood this huge push to try to get younger folks to completely disregard low T and chalk it up to diet/age/training/etc. Trust me, before I started TRT at 19, the erectile dysfunction wasn't all that great.
10-08-2005, 05:47 PM
ya buddy dont worry too much... i never had any tests done that i payed attention to regarding my Test levels but i can relate with you 100%. dont worry so much about the numbers and look at the real world figures. your gaining and thats all that matters. at 17 i was in all most the exact same situation as you moving from 130 - 150 making huge gains on my lifts and i didnt feel i looked as strong as i really was and i was ALWAYS tired, naps like crazy and slept like 10 hours every night, your body needs time to grow and it does that while you sleep. across time ive continued to gain and eventually hit platues that i needed the help of PH to surpass, until you hit that point and cant even possibly gain anymore, after multiple diet and routine changes and your of age (21) then worry about somthing serious like all these youve stated. like everyone else said retest in a bit and see what happens, till then just eat man and take your creatine, no fat burners and the like, they can kill your libido. if you havent try some No products, thatll help the libido.
10-08-2005, 09:40 PM
There was some mention of it, but I believe there are a few posts missing??? AAS and kids are a touchy subject, so, I understand....but, it was mentioned. However, the chances that someone can have considerably lower serum T and normal free T are improbable, although possible.Originally Posted by Brennon
10-09-2005, 03:45 AM
I think my low testosterone is related to my tiredness all the time. Also combined with a decrease in sex drive and with the test results i think i can kinda almost certain say that i have low testosterone. Very low! Anywayz how comes my CNS is developing faster than my muscularity? is it my training?Originally Posted by TheTom
thanks for the help mate you helped me a lot
10-09-2005, 03:49 AM
Thanks mate. One of the other thing that is doubly killing me now is that i have been having like 5 hours sleep every night for the past 3-4 weeks. BTW i had my test done like 2-3 months ago so i know that isnt the problem.... So at wat weight did you stop gaining? and wat where your pesronal bests at that time? on bench squat and deadlifts? I think i will listen to your advice and wait till im the age of 21, maybe it has not developed sufficiently (my endocrine hormone) just hope it does in the end. Yeh im taking creatine, eating good.Originally Posted by poopypants
Do you still have these symptoms you are describing? i just hate being tired all the time. thanks for giving me your advice i really appreciate it.
10-09-2005, 03:55 AM
I really doubt that my free test is in normal range since my low total test is really low though. How do TRT kick start the HPTA i thought only like CLOMID or HCG does. Also are you still on TRT? and wat was your total test and free test?Originally Posted by Brennon
10-09-2005, 02:45 PM
Free T can be in range since SHBG is reduced when Total T is lower. But people often report the same symptoms with low total T as well, it's just a really unreliable method to assess hypogonadism. I'm still on T, but before I was my total T was reliably 50-200 with free T a few points below the bottom end of the range. I'm not sure on the fine points of jump starting the HPTA using TRT...that's a better question for the men's health forum over at mesorx.
12-05-2005, 06:00 AM
blood test back again
ok this is what happened guys i got tested 3 months ago with a level of 184ng of testosterone as you can see in this thread. I got tested again last week and got the results today and it came back to 405ng. However i still feel really ****ty, Absolutely no libido, tiredness all the time, some nights cannot sleep, decrease in muscle mass, hard time putting on mass, decreased facial growth by far!! grows like 3 times as slow now.
All my doc said was that it was normal, that the result 14.1 was slap bang in the middle of the range 10-31 he also said it like trippled my testosterone. I know his trick trying to make me feel alright. I said no..... it doubled mate, and hes like yeh.
I said that is not in the middle and he started rambling on crap about how yes it is the middle of the poppulation that most people is at that level because the graph is a bell shaped curve.
I then explained so how can you explain my symptoms of low testosterone that i just told you. And he just nodded ? He said i can right you a letter to the endocrinologist but i dont think they will give you therapy. I said why, he said its because it is usually like that. I said i am only at an age of 18 just turned 18 yesterday and this is not normal, my libido was slapped bang dimished and i cannot suffer like this for the rest of my life.
I took out printed things of the internet showed him some things that saying that if it was on the low normal range this is usually for old men and younger men should have higher testosterone, and another printout where testosterone levels should be around 800ng in teens. Also showed him printout of the blood results he should have requested. i.e. lh, fsh, e2, cortisol etc. He didnt even really look at it he just glanced at it and just nodded.
He said again im going to write a letter to the endocrinologist and it will go from there, i said yeh. And he said for me to show the stuff to the endocrinologist.
However a problem with me is i tried looking for more research on the internet about what the average level is for teens is but havent really found much. Can you guys give me some source for this, and other sources which i can use to try and convince my endocrinologist.
I know i am 18 and you can see in this thread before that i really hated to go on TRT but its been like 5 months like this and i cannot life like this for the rest of my life. Always thinking about it, just want to be my normal self. Thanks for taking your time reading this. and thanks for all the help guys.
In the UK it is a lot alot alot alot alot harder to get TRT for hypogonadism.
I think i might be secondary hypoganodal because it seems my testis is working due to the increaes in testosterone
12-05-2005, 03:53 PM
so what are your main complaints again and your desired results from a visit with the endocrinologist? as for the normal range for teens that is going to be a very broad one since everyone is soooo different and some guys dont really peak till they are like 23. i know guys who had their growth spurts after highschool, like growing 4 inches and crap so even in your situation you cant really give up quite yet. sounds honestly to me like your experiencing alot of the symptoms of depression, has there been anything else that has effected you negatively besides these low test results? i dont know bro id look on the bright side of things your young and things can still change plenty in all aspects, life is what you make it bro. if your libido has got you down look into some MACA and fenugreek and that'll get you moving in no time.... maybe even a little too much. good luck with everything bro.Originally Posted by dark_star
12-05-2005, 09:38 PM
I wouldn't take anything that would abnormally influence your testosterone levels before you see an endo.
Give the endo a chance to dig into exactly why you are feeling like ass.
12-05-2005, 10:29 PM
You could be eating TOO clean that's a possiblity, like not getting enough fat in your diet, keep your fats at 30% of your daily caloric intake and this alone with boost your testosterone levels, make sure your taking a couple table spoons of Hempseed oil daily. Keep taking your ZMA, and take a good multi, also get atleast 8 hours sleep, and try taking some Tribulus if you feel your need it, that's fine to take for your age, I like Tribex 500 by Biotest.
12-06-2005, 09:57 PM
hey dude im about to turn 30 and i cant grow a complete beard just a goatee every body peaks at different times if you think about it you will have an edge when your older because physically your body will be a little younger . just my theory
12-09-2005, 03:50 AM
The normal testosterone range is 2-10ng/dl. You are at 6.4, which isn't incredible., but right where it should be. You're fine.
12-09-2005, 03:58 AM
actually its 200-1,000 ng/day. You said your levels were at 6.4[I][I]nmols yet the range you listed is measured in ou's? You should ask your lab tech for results in terms of simple ng's or mg's.
ots actually 200Serum testosterone 6.4 nmol/L (10.5-31.0U) <--10000 ng.per day.
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