Post workout high sugar drinks limits glucose muscle reuptake
- 10-01-2005, 04:01 PM
THis sums the whole point up nicely:
"This entire thread is marred by the simple fact that weight training is not a glycogen-depleting form of exercise. Sure, there will be some loss of glycogen stores, but nowhere near what is found from the type of glycogen-depleting protocols used in refeeding experiments. The type of high-intensity, rest-between-sets of weight lifting taxes the ATP-CP system heavily, but only has a small to moderate effect on glycogen reserves unless training volume is extremely high and/or there is little or no rest between sets and exercises.
Not that this automatically invalidates everything that's been said, but it seems to me that we may well be comparing apples to oranges here. I know of no published studies which look at the effect of the post-workout meal on protein synthesis/degradation or glycogen synthesis after weight training.
Janet Rankin did such a study two years ago in our department, and found no effect. Such an "unexciting" finding meant that it didn't get published, unfortunately.
In another thread a while back, we discussed at length a human study which looked at the effects of insulin , both at reast and post-exercise, on muscle protein synthesis. The bottom line was that insulin infusion increased muscle protein syntheses via its effects on vasodilation, which in turn caused a greater rate of amino acid deliver to muscle tissue under resting conditions.
Post-exercise, when blood flow to muscles was already , insulin infusion had no further effect on protein synthesis. Thus, the idea that insulin spikes are anabolic in during post-workout conditions appears to be a myth, although there is still room for the anti-catabolic effects of insulin in the post workout state; however, the real-world significance of this for weight trainers is questionable.
More important for anabolism would seem to be a high level of circulating amino acids both during the workout and post-workout, in addition to a high level of blood flow to the muscles."
Even Tipton himself says the carb source is insignificant.For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
- 10-01-2005, 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by biomanFor answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
- 10-01-2005, 04:16 PM
Spelling is getting worse....feeling weaker...must stop....For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
10-01-2005, 05:04 PM
That's why he's the boss. Thanks for the re-edgamacation Bobo.
Follow up question...is there any real point to using BCAA's if one is already using whey protein iso/conc mix? Seems to me like it's a waste of time and really, why take in an incomplete amino profile when you can ingest all the pertinant aminos with whey.
10-01-2005, 05:05 PM
Hum i will try this recipe soon...although i dont think glutamine is useful, but i have some laying around so i may try it as well.I may add some ALA also to increase insulin sensitivity.Originally Posted by Malek256
10-01-2005, 05:14 PM
The article is serisously flawed because he is associating hepatic IGF-1 to MGF (localized GF within skeletal muscle). Its MGF that causes growth and that is more influenced by the type of exercise (stimuli to increased ECC times). The rise in IGF-1 will happen regardless and it actually influenced moreso by overall diet over longer periods of time, not what you eat within a 2 hour period.
I won't even go into the glutamine issue. Using ALA and any other nutrient dispersals post workout seems pointless to me as well looking at the studies. If you arne't insulin resistant it doens't show much benefit.
For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
10-01-2005, 05:20 PM
10-01-2005, 06:21 PM
Damn, bobo was even quoting himself and disecting that...lol. thx for the explanation, I also use a protein/low GI mix for my P-wo shake (as per your advice Bobo) and realized that it was the better option for myself as well.
10-02-2005, 04:15 PM
Why not focus more on casein protein as it is slowly released into the bloodstream, maintaining a steady level of aminos for many hours? Moreover, taking BCAAs with a mixed meal pre-w/o could slow their entry into the bloodstream. Sounds right, at least.Originally Posted by bioman
10-02-2005, 08:25 PM
Very true, I assumed we were discussing this with the most common type of diet I see lately which is guys keeping carbs for use only post workout in a 3x weekly workout series. So glycogen depletion is right on the cusp of occurence with these since they tend to go 2 days with no carbs (and then hit the weights). Bad assumption on my part.Originally Posted by Bobo
Glutamine is very interesting -- seems that about 30% of "really skinny" dudes who give it a go report gains while they're taking it. I've seen references that it may calm some forms of irritable bowel and this may be why it is effective for the 1 in 3 guys. (EDIT: forgot to mention, gluten intolerance is one of these that L-Glutamine helps to calm) Now the gains and "feeling better" reported could be placebo of course...However if you're pressed for cash, L-Glutamine's the first one I'd drop, as you'll note that 1 in 3 working is the same as 2 in 3 "not working".
Something to consider before cell shuttlers are passed over though -- Insulin resistance is a gradual condition and is not something that's really noticable in early stages, especially since the focus that bodybuilders have on "clean diet" tends to slow it (and often eventually reverses it).
Why does this matter? Many lifters who are "new" to bodybuilding or who have had a less than stellar diet for years previous may benefit (signficiantly for some) from cellular shuttlers as they may well be insulin resistant to a lesser or greater degree and be ignorant of the condition. Insulin resistance is not a binary condition ("on" or "off") there are varying levels which can fluctuate. Another means of reducing insulin resistance which is hypothesized is the use of such insulin mimetics since the insulin response is lessened when they are present. I do not see convincing evidence to confirm it absolutely however.
10-04-2005, 10:47 AM
Definitely some interesting stuff Bobo, thanks. I have some questions have too much work to do before I can reread this thread and formulate them.
10-31-2005, 12:42 PM
11-12-2005, 09:29 PM
I have been using Biotest Surge for my post workout drink. I think it is 49 carbs of simple sugars and 25 or so protein, for a total of 350 calories.
If we are not supposed to use such a product, then what are we supposed to use post workout? I AM insulin resistant to a degree and really don't use sugary products most of the time except during my two hour window, and am also trying to cut. I do not have any feelings of blood sugar problems when consuming Surge post workout as it seems to fill a need my body has. If I don't eat or use the Surge post workout, then I can get light headed pretty quick.
If not a Surge type of product then what should I be consuming post workout?
11-13-2005, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by Malek256
Fenugreek+creatine post workout= amazing bumps, similar to NO type product.
I realy like it, but im taking it with bunch of other stuff. wiered thing is that everytime it take it post workout i get feeling that i ate a big meal, and im kinda full.
11-14-2005, 12:27 PM
I am bumping this......I would really like to know what Bobo or others thinks the optimum post workout drink or meal is for fast recovery and growth and minimum adipose storage.
11-14-2005, 02:48 PM
oats, with milk and a protein shake immediately PostWO.. followed by a grilled chicken breast served over your favorite low GI rice an hour later!
but i'm just guessing
11-14-2005, 02:56 PM
11-14-2005, 03:41 PM
11-14-2005, 03:52 PM
Pay for his services and find out for yourself.Originally Posted by Mr. V
I don't think anyone should hand out info garnered through Bobo's training programs. Not on here at least. He helps a lot in general with this posting but doesn't give everything away.
He has bills to pay as well.
11-14-2005, 04:05 PM
Then stop responding to posts with dead end answers. Go back to your hole. Why are you here anyway if you are paying Bobo for all the answers?Originally Posted by houseman
You don't need this forum and are certainly not willing to contribute....so why are you here?
11-14-2005, 04:21 PM
I don't pay him for all the answers. I don't ask him anything.Originally Posted by Mr. V
I paid him to design my diet and training cause I didn't have the time to do it this time.
What you asked is for BOBO to tell you what he thinks is optimium for Post workout nutrition. In other words, you want Bobo's experience and knowledge without paying for it.
The actual fact is he (and lots others) have commented on it in this thread and several other threads.
Why don't you try using the search button and do some reading instead of being a whiny little bitch like you are right now?
11-14-2005, 04:57 PM
There is a study posted here somewherem, where it compares protein drinks, and regular milk. the study found that milk provided same recovery mood that protein/glucose drinks provide.
So 2 cups of skimmed post work out is good to for me. adding some protein isolate wouldnt hurt also.
11-14-2005, 06:35 PM
This thread has already been discussing the subject (free of charge, I might add), It would only seem to the be appropriate place to obtain related intellegent answers, instead of unintelligent answers like "Wrong". And you are incorrect, I asked what BOBO OR others had to say regarding the subject.Originally Posted by houseman
I will not argue this any further, as it serves no beneficial purpose.
Thanks X_muscle for offering your solution.
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