Are Epicatechin gains not suppose to be permanent?

[Iwilleattuna]

Sup fellas. Had an interesting question about Epicatechin. Last April, I ran an Epicatechin product for the first time. It contained 300 mg per serving. I definitely got dryer, harder looking, more vascular and stronger. Weight maintained and I was already a low body fat 7-8%. I came off after finishing this product and went on a trip. Funny enough, one of the gyms I went to offered an Epicatechin product which was 1000mg! That WAS insane. Dry as nails, noticing vascularity in places I never have, and looked fuller/bigger. It felt too good to be true. Even my face got dryer, probably from the anti cortisol. Digestion was faster too. Felt a little increased anxiety which was a downside.

However, I finished that and not completing the bottle(let a friend try it out who said he felt mainly a pump. He’s not as lean so could have been reason) in July.

I noticed coming off, lost vascularity and dryness pretty fast and digestion slowed back down. I’m not sure if I’ve felt suppression symptoms either. Definitely sleeping harder now.

My worries are these companies may be mixing their epicat products with arimistane(Haven’t tried that yet, want to keep everything as natural as possible). It sounds far fetched , but I now see epicat/arimistane/Andro etc. FYI, neither of them are promoted on this site

Just wondering if you guys have noticed the same? I’m pretty pissed that the look didn’t remain. I’m still lean, but lacking that added vascularity and dryness.

Pumps were also insane but not off it.

Man , if this is as strong as it’s suppose to be than truly amazing that green tea extract could possess that much power.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

Didn’t gain much strength either. So that never really changed. The mind muscle connection and contraction was much better , though. Damn , going to have to get some more.

This time I’m wanting to try ep1logue for sure.

 

[bigsmall]

Muscle gained naturally is permanent if you don't lose weight, eat clean (well) and keep training.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

Muscle gained naturally is permanent if you don't lose weight, eat clean (well) and keep training.

Yes I’m aware and I still train and maintain the same diet. I’m guessing Epicatechin is mainly cosmetic.

Btw, thank you brother

 

[cheftepesh1]

I think that with most Supps gains made while on them will drop off a little when you stop. The goal is to gain enough that the loss is negligible. Epi is not going to produce such amazing gains that the drop off isn’t going to show. Vascularity will reduce over time when these Supps are stopped as well as dryness.

 

[Ape McGrapes]

Gains from a natural product should remain the same. What I think you lost are the effects of the product itself. It's similar to how you slowly lose the pump you gained while at the gym.

 

[ELROCK]

I basically just lose muscular endurance that was enhanced during the -epi run. Meaning my reps go down a little. That’s about it for me.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

Okay, yes, that makes sense guys. Guess I was pumped 24/7 on it lol. That can’t really stay the same

 

[thebigt]

Okay, yes, that makes sense guys. Guess I was pumped 24/7 on it lol. That can’t really stay the same

I've read where some guys use epi products year round...

 

[ELROCK]

I've read where some guys use epi products year round...

I would if I felt I could afford to. I like the muscular endurance with -epi. However, when you think of the cost to run it year round it’s not really worth that IMO.

 

[thebigt]

I would if I felt I could afford to. I like the muscular endurance with -epi. However, when you think of the cost to run it year round it’s not really worth that IMO.

if I had a unlimited budget I would need a warehouse.

 

[Jeremyk1]

Epicatechin will increase NO levels as I recall, which would definitely account for increased stamina in the gym as well as muscle fullness. As far as actually losing gains (even though it doesn’t sound like that’s what happened) epicatechin is supposed to inhibit myostatin via increasing follistatin. Myostatin will limit muscle domain size, so decreasing would allow a larger muscle domain. Essentially, the domain size is the muscle volume per myonucleus. Myostatin inhibition doesn’t cause structural changes in the muscle cell like other stimuli can, ie. increased number of myonuclei. So in theory, if you inhibit myostatin enough, your muscles could kind of “deflate” after myostatin levels re-elevate.

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

Some Vascularity will go away off of epi-plex but shouldn’t change much coming off

 

[tyga tyga]

I would if I felt I could afford to. I like the muscular endurance with -epi. However, when you think of the cost to run it year round it’s not really worth that IMO.

It would definitely be costly. CEL usually has a bundled deal and sometimes BOGO on epi-plex (this would be ideal if you wanted to run year around)

OP, I’m guessing you lost the benefit the epi provided (to you).

 

[Chamaan]

Sup fellas. Had an interesting question about Epicatechin. Last April, I ran an Epicatechin product for the first time. It contained 300 mg per serving. I definitely got dryer, harder looking, more vascular and stronger. Weight maintained and I was already a low body fat 7-8%. I came off after finishing this product and went on a trip. Funny enough, one of the gyms I went to offered an Epicatechin product which was 1000mg! That WAS insane. Dry as nails, noticing vascularity in places I never have, and looked fuller/bigger. It felt too good to be true. Even my face got dryer, probably from the anti cortisol. Digestion was faster too. Felt a little increased anxiety which was a downside.

However, I finished that and not completing the bottle(let a friend try it out who said he felt mainly a pump. He’s not as lean so could have been reason) in July.

I noticed coming off, lost vascularity and dryness pretty fast and digestion slowed back down. I’m not sure if I’ve felt suppression symptoms either. Definitely sleeping harder now.

My worries are these companies may be mixing their epicat products with arimistane(Haven’t tried that yet, want to keep everything as natural as possible). It sounds far fetched , but I now see epicat/arimistane/Andro etc. FYI, neither of them are promoted on this site

Just wondering if you guys have noticed the same? I’m pretty pissed that the look didn’t remain. I’m still lean, but lacking that added vascularity and dryness.

Pumps were also insane but not off it.

Man , if this is as strong as it’s suppose to be than truly amazing that green tea extract could possess that much power.

You are describing gear-like effects for a natty supp... that alone makes me think it was compromised or mixed.
I used Ghost Size for 2 months straight, which contains Epicatechin (although the dosage is modest) and an absorption enhancement, but i did not experienced such effects (in fact i attribute to the others ingredients -creatine and betaine- the only positive effects i had).

Actually the only way to tell for sure is to run blood tests to confirm your suppression symptoms.

What was the first Epi product you took ?

 

[Iwilleattuna]

I just picked up epi Plex from cel to see how I respond to this product.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

You are describing gear-like effects for a natty supp... that alone makes me think it was compromised or mixed.
I used Ghost Size for 2 months straight, which contains Epicatechin (although the dosage is modest) and an absorption enhancement, but i did not experienced such effects (in fact i attribute to the others ingredients -creatine and betaine- the only positive effects i had).

Actually the only way to tell for sure is to run blood tests to confirm your suppression symptoms.

What was the first Epi product you took ?

I’m just going to throw the companies out.

First one was from fundamental nutrition. You can find it on amazon. I liked this product

The second was anabolic warfare epigrow. I haven’t heard anything about this one which worries me. I felt the Epicatechin but had some sides . Got almost too vascular (for Epicatechin) and what I felt coming off worries me. definitely felt estro like symptoms off of it

Also tried Blackstone epicat in the summer of 2017 , but I wasn’t as lean and didn’t notice as much.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

if I had a unlimited budget I would need a warehouse.

Haha , that would be amazing. Epicatechin actually works! Love it. Maybe my body responds well , but seeing everyone else’s experiences gives me great hope

 

[Iwilleattuna]

I’m curious; How does laxogenin compare to Epicatechin? The thing I don’t like about laxo is that it’s synthetically made. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Epicatechin isn’t ? I can usually smell the green tea extract in the products too

 

[Chamaan]

I’m just going to throw the companies out.

First one was from fundamental nutrition. You can find it on amazon. I liked this product

The second was anabolic warfare epigrow. I haven’t heard anything about this one which worries me. I felt the Epicatechin but had some sides . Got almost too vascular (for Epicatechin) and what I felt coming off worries me. definitely felt estro like symptoms off of it

Also tried Blackstone epicat in the summer of 2017 , but I wasn’t as lean and didn’t notice as much.

To be honest it sounds like you first products were mixed with some other stuff, because it's unlikely you would respond so well to some and so little with Blackstone which is quite reliable as far as composition goes.

Regarding the estro-like sides, I'd run an OTC PCT just in case and see how that goes.

 

[kisaj]

Epicatechin is about the only natural product that I saw great benefits from, namely endurance increase which equated to increased reps and size. I remember how many people **** on Brundel and BLR when he first brought it out and now I see at least 30 products on Amazon that contain it.

 

[justhere4comm]

^ Agreed. It's the best product I have in the cabinet that resides with my other staples taken with my TRT.

Garlic
Vitamin D3 + K2
Taurine
Olive Leaf Extract
CoQ10

 

[tyga tyga]

I just picked up epi Plex from cel to see how I respond to this product.

Cool, you should bump this thread after you run the bottle to keep us updated!

 

[Iwilleattuna]

Cool, you should bump this thread after you run the bottle to keep us updated!

Oh, I will! I’m excited too. Once I have 40 post , I may post a few pics as well!

This is cool as I’m experimenting with diff products

 

[Iwilleattuna]

To be honest it sounds like you first products were mixed with some other stuff, because it's unlikely you would respond so well to some and so little with Blackstone which is quite reliable as far as composition goes.

Regarding the estro-like sides, I'd run an OTC PCT just in case and see how that goes.

Hmm , anything you recommend? I have pure daa powder and DIM. Was going to pick up some more ashwaghanda as well

 

[Iwilleattuna]

Also have a bottle of super laxo by primeval I’ve been wanting to try, but there’s literally nothing about that specific product. In terms of reviews.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

^ Agreed. It's the best product I have in the cabinet that resides with my other staples taken with my TRT.

Garlic
Vitamin D3 + K2
Taurine
Olive Leaf Extract
CoQ10

No beet root?

 

[thebigt]

Also have a bottle of super laxo by primeval I’ve been wanting to try, but there’s literally nothing about that specific product. In terms of reviews.

quite a few reviews of iconogenin-good reviews!!!

 

[Iwilleattuna]

quite a few reviews of iconogenin-good reviews!!!

I’ve seen those too. Hmm, I am a lil poor, but Holidays are here and May as well treat myself to a nice epi-Laxo stack . Gains> finances lmao. Any sides to note with laxo?

 

[Iwilleattuna]

4 days into Epi-Plex. Felt endurance / strength increase day 2. Woke up this am and I feel fuller / more vascular. Same thing I felt with the last two. Guess I just respond super well to Epicatechin lol. I’m taking 3 caps. We will see how it plays out

Definitely not quite as potent “feeling” as the aw epigrow but I also don’t feel the extreme dryness either which is good. I’m going for more size now anyway

I may try follidrone after I finish this bottle btw