Anyone try Bacchus by chaos and pain?

  1. Anyone try Bacchus by chaos and pain?


    There seems to be no reviews on it. Looks to have a solid profile. I tried kanna in the past but i think it was a ****ty vendor and to low dose. This has about a 1gram of it combined with pea,hordenine and 5htp.

    Any one tried it, is it a legit mood enhancer.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by josh092 View Post
    There seems to be no reviews on it. Looks to have a solid profile. I tried kanna in the past but i think it was a ****ty vendor and to low dose. This has about a 1gram of it combined with pea,hordenine and 5htp.

    Any one tried it, is it a legit mood enhancer.
    Legit kanna doesnít have to be dosed very high. Zembrin is the ďbrand name,Ē and there is another extract that is very similar that you can get for a lot cheaper than Zembrin though. Kanna is a nice mood boosting ingredient, and I find it goes well with caffeine and stimulants. Iíve never used Bacchus or however you spell it though.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
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  3. Subbed for the replies.

  4. This certainly has the potential to have a notable impact on serotonin through the 5-HTP, Rhodiola, and generous dose of Kanna.

    On one hand, I could picture taking this and getting a notable mood boost and reduction in anxiety. Alternatively, I could also picture this as being a little too relaxing/sedating...resulting in a spontaneous nap.

    I think some Alpha GPC would have been a nice addition to the blend..

  5. am currently using it twice a week. it provides a smooth (not jittery) focus that lasts for 3 to 4 hours and then tapers down gradually. The results are even better when combined with a cup of instant coffee.
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  6. I really enjoyed the bottle that I used. Good mood and smooth energy. It is something that I will buy again.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by determination View Post
    I really enjoyed the bottle that I used. Good mood and smooth energy. It is something that I will buy again.
    Nice! Sounds like a great add-on item to to take with a stim/fat burner, or PWO...

  8. Very curious about the Kanna dose. It’s a full gram in Bacchus. Extracts are usually doses around 25mg. Even the reddit community says for pure Kanna leaves, 500 mg is a high dose.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by N2ofusion View Post
    Very curious about the Kanna dose. It’s a full gram in Bacchus. Extracts are usually doses around 25mg. Even the reddit community says for pure Kanna leaves, 500 mg is a high dose.
    It does seem to have a high safety threshold, with one study noting 14 and 90 day NOAELs (in rats) at 5000 and 600 mg/kg respectively, which is roughly equivalent to 56g and 6.72g for a 70kg human, which are both huge doses. These were the highest doses tested, so it's possible that the NOAEL was even higher than this. It's also worth noting that this was with the Zembrin extract, not the raw powder. I can see an argument being made that this would mean that you could use at least as much of the powder, as the extract is "stronger," but I can also see an argument being made that, as a standardized extract, you know that you're not getting an excessive dose of things you don't want from it. Either way, it seems like it's plenty safe at reasonable doses.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25301237

    That said, I don't think we can inherently just say that more is better here. We have human studies showing that 25mg of Zembrin is an effective dose,and some rodent studies showing that it's not exactly an inherently/infinitely linear dose-response curve in all aspects, with one study noting that a lower dose of an extract (5mg/kg in rats; roughly equivalent to 56mg for a 70kg person) was more effective than a higher dose (20mg/kg; roughly equivalent to 224mg for a 70kg person) in regards to its ability to "decrease restraint stress-induced self-soothing behavior, as well as to decrease stress-induced corticosterone levels."
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20816940

    TL;DR: Higher doses are likely to be "safe," but not necessarily more effective than lower doses.

    Maybe someone at C&P can explain why they believe the much higher dose is better, as I always enjoy some good discussion.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
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  10. More relevant reading:

    "Excerpts from a translated interview with a local shepherd
    in Namaqualand, Mr. Lodewyk Mories, recorded on audiotape in
    Afrikaans in May, 1995 (Mories, pers. comm. 1995), part of which
    had first been reported in Smith et al. (1996):"
    You use it when you feel like it.... You use it, then take it out
    of your mouth, and use it again when you want to.... It is not
    a poison; there is no such thing as too much. . .. . . I am used to
    using it, I use it when I feel like it.... I ate a lot of kougoed, but
    now in my later years I am not so partial to it. Sometimes I eat it,
    and sometimes I don’t eat it for days. Sometimes I stay a month
    without it, but if I feel like it, then I will chew it.
    In 1914, Zwicky chewed 5 g of kougoed resulting in nausea, analgesia
    to the mouth, normal pulse, discomfort and stuffiness of the
    head, and loss of appetite. On a separate occasion he swallowed
    a decoction made from 15 g of kougoed, with similar results, but
    including headache, and the local anaesthetic action was found to
    be much weaker than cocaine (Watt and Breyer-Brandwijk, 1962).
    Smith et al. (1996) reported the effect in two individuals of 2 g
    of kougoed held in the mouth with a small quantity of alcohol.
    A feeling of “tranquil mellowness” was experienced after 30 min,
    with no impairment of motor function, and no hallucinations. On
    a later occasion these same individuals took 1 g material, which on
    this occasion the material included root. The subjects experienced
    the same effect as before, but stronger. The effects of traditionally
    prepared kougoed was documented by Smith et al. (1996), and a
    wide range of effects were reported, including anxiolytic activity,
    improved social intercourse, decreased self-consciousness, synergistic
    effect with alcohol and with Cannabis, decreased substance
    abuse in poly-substance abuser, as well as feelings of relaxation,
    and a meditative state of mind. Three first-time users reported
    clouding of consciousness with doses that were high enough to be
    intoxicating. Ingestion of Sceletium gave pain relief from a bee-sting.
    Gericke (2002) reports that when taken in intoxicating doses,
    Sceletium tortuosum can cause euphoria, initially with stimulation,
    followed by sedation, but the plant is not hallucinogenic, and no
    severe adverse effects are known. Chronic use does not appear
    to result in a withdrawal state. Tinctures of the plant are useful
    clinically for treating anxiety, depression and stress.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18761074
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  11. I have a bottle of Bacchus arriving within the next few days. I look forward to seeing how this formula treats me!

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Ricky10 View Post
    I have a bottle of Bacchus arriving within the next few days. I look forward to seeing how this formula treats me!
    Keep us posted!
  13. Chaos & Pain Rep

  14. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    It does seem to have a high safety threshold, with one study noting 14 and 90 day NOAELs (in rats) at 5000 and 600 mg/kg respectively, which is roughly equivalent to 56g and 6.72g for a 70kg human, which are both huge doses. These were the highest doses tested, so it's possible that the NOAEL was even higher than this. It's also worth noting that this was with the Zembrin extract, not the raw powder. I can see an argument being made that this would mean that you could use at least as much of the powder, as the extract is "stronger," but I can also see an argument being made that, as a standardized extract, you know that you're not getting an excessive dose of things you don't want from it. Either way, it seems like it's plenty safe at reasonable doses.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25301237

    That said, I don't think we can inherently just say that more is better here. We have human studies showing that 25mg of Zembrin is an effective dose,and some rodent studies showing that it's not exactly an inherently/infinitely linear dose-response curve in all aspects, with one study noting that a lower dose of an extract (5mg/kg in rats; roughly equivalent to 56mg for a 70kg person) was more effective than a higher dose (20mg/kg; roughly equivalent to 224mg for a 70kg person) in regards to its ability to "decrease restraint stress-induced self-soothing behavior, as well as to decrease stress-induced corticosterone levels."
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20816940

    TL;DR: Higher doses are likely to be "safe," but not necessarily more effective than lower doses.

    Maybe someone at C&P can explain why they believe the much higher dose is better, as I always enjoy some good discussion.
    Jamie was responsible for our kanna dosage, from what he said and I quote" It's what I like" so it comes down to what dosage of kanna he personally liked taking. He also wanted to make sure it was more than enough for those over 100kg like him at the time and myself( currently at 113kg). Every supplement company has a product close to their heart and for many owners they may have " different" dosages due to them having the intention to use the product for their own benefit. This is why we have the kanna on the higher end. Part of the fun of making supps. Similar to the new fatburner, permaswole and aggro formulations we have in the pipeline. Also, we are going to change the label at some point, our kanna is 2:1 which is what is studied. I'm going to have it changed on the website description for now to mirror that. I told @CNPWayne this morning it's on our to do list. I had the same questions about the smaller dosages but jamie assured me this was the best route. I suggest trying it before buying it. We offer samples via email. Email me at [email protected] and we will send some over if you're down to try it.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  15. Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Jamie was responsible for our kanna dosage, from what he said and I quote" It's what I like" so it comes down to what dosage of kanna he personally liked taking. He also wanted to make sure it was more than enough for those over 100kg like him at the time and myself( currently at 113kg). Every supplement company has a product close to their heart and for many owners they may have " different" dosages due to them having the intention to use the product for their own benefit. This is why we have the kanna on the higher end. Part of the fun of making supps. Similar to the new fatburner, permaswole and aggro formulations we have in the pipeline. Also, we are going to change the label at some point, our kanna is 2:1 which is what is studied. I'm going to have it changed on the website description for now to mirror that. I told @CNPWayne this morning it's on our to do list. I had the same questions about the smaller dosages but jamie assured me this was the best route. I suggest trying it before buying it. We offer samples via email. Email me at [email protected] and we will send some over if you're down to try it.
    To each his own for sure. We all have our own preferences, and even different goals for why we use a given ingredient. As long as itís a safe dose, which it does seem to be, people will all have their individual preferences, so having multiple options from different products with different doses is a good thing.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  16. Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post
    Keep us posted!
    Along with Bacchus, I also got a nootropic product called Xact (Awaken Your Mind). I actually ended up taking both first thing in the morning, and throughout the day at work (along with Vicaine and some other stims). Obviously not a controlled experiment today by any means, but my first impression is that Bacchus did promote some nice relaxation and mood boosting effects. I didn’t seem to get much out of Xact when I took one pill of that in a more isolated manner late in my shift.

    I will use Bacchus in a more controlled manner in the next few days. I’m a relentless stimaholic at work, so today just turned into a festival of pills. I felt pretty good though!

  17. I took a more conservative approach with Bacchus today...

    I woke this morning and had 1 scoop of Performax FitMax, and 1 capsule of HT Lipodrene Elite. This is a pretty standard starting point of the day for me to get some wakefulness and energy going. I typically end up consuming another single capsule of something like C&P Cannibal Inferno along with 1 capsule of Vicaine before I am actually satisfied though. Sometimes a bit more to be completely honest. (Bad...I know)

    Anyway, this morning I consumed my FitMax and Lipodrene Elite and felt as I normally would...which was fairly decent. I then took two capsules of Bacchus and things kind of went downhill. There was a sedative-like calming effect and increase in brain fog....not quite the mood boost I thought I was enjoying yesterday. I think the doses of 5-HTP and Kanna might be too strong for me to dose 2-3 capsules at one sitting. I picture myself doing better and likely having a positive experience dosing this at 1 capsule a few times a day, which happened to be what I did yesterday.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Ricky10 View Post
    I took a more conservative approach with Bacchus today...

    I woke this morning and had 1 scoop of Performax FitMax, and 1 capsule of HT Lipodrene Elite. This is a pretty standard starting point of the day for me to get some wakefulness and energy going. I typically end up consuming another single capsule of something like C&P Cannibal Inferno along with 1 capsule of Vicaine before I am actually satisfied though. Sometimes a bit more to be completely honest. (Bad...I know)

    Anyway, this morning I consumed my FitMax and Lipodrene Elite and felt as I normally would...which was fairly decent. I then took two capsules of Bacchus and things kind of went downhill. There was a sedative-like calming effect and increase in brain fog....not quite the mood boost I thought I was enjoying yesterday. I think the doses of 5-HTP and Kanna might be too strong for me to dose 2-3 capsules at one sitting. I picture myself doing better and likely having a positive experience dosing this at 1 capsule a few times a day, which happened to be what I did yesterday.
    Everyone responds differently to ingredients and doses. Sometimes less is more and the bonus is the bottle lasts longer lol
    -Chaos and Pain Rep -
    www.chaosandpain.com
    20% off = brice20 (Not my personal code - just there to hook up AM members)

  19. Quote Originally Posted by BloodManor View Post
    Everyone responds differently to ingredients and doses. Sometimes less is more and the bonus is the bottle lasts longer lol
    Exactly! Ultimately, I think this may be more of an every now and then kind of supplement for me...or one cap per morning. Still too soon to really tell. I have a feeling I will be able to put it to good use in one way or another though..

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Ricky10 View Post
    I took a more conservative approach with Bacchus today...

    I woke this morning and had 1 scoop of Performax FitMax, and 1 capsule of HT Lipodrene Elite. This is a pretty standard starting point of the day for me to get some wakefulness and energy going. I typically end up consuming another single capsule of something like C&P Cannibal Inferno along with 1 capsule of Vicaine before I am actually satisfied though. Sometimes a bit more to be completely honest. (Bad...I know)

    Anyway, this morning I consumed my FitMax and Lipodrene Elite and felt as I normally would...which was fairly decent. I then took two capsules of Bacchus and things kind of went downhill. There was a sedative-like calming effect and increase in brain fog....not quite the mood boost I thought I was enjoying yesterday. I think the doses of 5-HTP and Kanna might be too strong for me to dose 2-3 capsules at one sitting. I picture myself doing better and likely having a positive experience dosing this at 1 capsule a few times a day, which happened to be what I did yesterday.
    hows your appetite with fitmax, inferno and lipodrene elite combined

  21. Quote Originally Posted by muree View Post
    hows your appetite with fitmax, inferno and lipodrene elite combined
    Fairly good to be honest, but I am not a very good barometer for that. My body has been used to taking these kinds of things for many years. I have never been much of a morning eater anyway....even in my pre stim life. A protein shake along with a couple pieces of toast with peanut butter is about it for me on a good day. Early afternoon and evening has always been my natural eating window.

    Even when I take stims late in the day (which occurs every day that I work), I have no problem eating lots of food in that window.

  22. Just to let everyone know, been sick for 3 days. Samples should be sent out today so be on the lookout.

    I also should note that if you're interested in experimenting with the kanna dosage you can utilize 1 cap instead of the full dose. I've been experimenting with this and 1 cap feels different than 3. Not better exactly, just different.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Ricky10 View Post
    Fairly good to be honest, but I am not a very good barometer for that. My body has been used to taking these kinds of things for many years. I have never been much of a morning eater anyway....even in my pre stim life. A protein shake along with a couple pieces of toast with peanut butter is about it for me on a good day. Early afternoon and evening has always been my natural eating window.

    Even when I take stims late in the day (which occurs every day that I work), I have no problem eating lots of food in that window.
    What will be your Vicaine replacement when itís gone?

  24. Ive been experimenting with the doses for a few weeks now. I love the stuff!! Bacchus is awesome once you dial in your dosage preferences and when to consume and what to consume it with. Love it
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