Tetradecylthioacetic acid (TTA)

[u_e_s_i]

Have any of you guys tried this stuff or read up on it?
What did you notice and/or what are your thoughts?

Asking for myself and a diabetic (overweight) family member who’s looking to shed fat

 

[LeanEngineer]

In to see what others have to say about this...

 

[cubsfan815]

I have a full bottle of SNS TTA500 left. I wanted to run it this month pre vacation, however I'm doing a lot of cardio, and I think I read its not good with increased cardio?

Not hijacking, just hoping we can get that answered too.

 

[HIT4ME]

People have reported good results with it. It was very popular 5 or so years ago I believe. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be good with increased cardio other than maybe if you go hypoglycemic. It activates PPARa, and activation of PPARa up-regulates the uptake and burning of fats. It would, unless I am missing something, likely shine with increased cardio. Where did you read otherwise? It's not like I'm an expert here...I've only used it 1X when I got some bulk powder cheap and I had moderate results with a less than ideal diet...so I can't really say it was or wasn't effective.

 

[HIT4ME]

OP - Are you talking Type I or Type II diabetic? Keep in mind this will be more of an anti-cholesterol/lipid compound than an anti-diabetes compound.

 

[alvin1]

it did not work for me, fasting is way better that this

 

[u_e_s_i]

OP - Are you talking Type I or Type II diabetic? Keep in mind this will be more of an anti-cholesterol/lipid compound than an anti-diabetes compound.

I’ll ask and let you know. I don’t know a huge amount about diabetes and need to do a bit more research first.
I’m asking because I came across this article and I remember that some diabetics suffer from insulin resistance
http://www.metabolicalchemy.com/tetradecylthioacetic-acid-making-a-comeback/

My thinking is that seeing as excess body fat is known to cause diabetes, if i could help her get lean-ish then hopefully that will alleviate her diabetes.
She became diabetic in her 40s maybe 50s and so it’s possible that that happened as she put on weight.
Even if it doesn’t alleviate her diabetes, she’s 80 something now, has joint and mobility problems and so at the very least helping her get lean-ish should help with those and make her final years that but better.

The article says that people were concerned about the potential side-effects of consuming something that can’t be metabolised however none of the human trials have indicated that TTA supplementation is harmful in any way

 

[Young Gotti]

tried sns tta500 and was disappointed

 

[cubsfan815]

People have reported good results with it. It was very popular 5 or so years ago I believe. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be good with increased cardio other than maybe if you go hypoglycemic. It activates PPARa, and activation of PPARa up-regulates the uptake and burning of fats. It would, unless I am missing something, likely shine with increased cardio. Where did you read otherwise? It's not like I'm an expert here...I've only used it 1X when I got some bulk powder cheap and I had moderate results with a less than ideal diet...so I can't really say it was or wasn't effective.

I'll see if I can find the study.

 

[HIT4ME]

I’ll ask and let you know. I don’t know a huge amount about diabetes and need to do a bit more research first.
I’m asking because I came across this article and I remember that some diabetics suffer from insulin resistance
http://www.metabolicalchemy.com/tetradecylthioacetic-acid-making-a-comeback/

My thinking is that seeing as excess body fat is known to cause diabetes, if i could help her get lean-ish then hopefully that will alleviate her diabetes.
She became diabetic in her 40s maybe 50s and so it’s possible that that happened as she put on weight.
Even if it doesn’t alleviate her diabetes, she’s 80 something now, has joint and mobility problems and so at the very least helping her get lean-ish should help with those and make her final years that but better.

The article says that people were concerned about the potential side-effects of consuming something that can’t be metabolised however none of the human trials have indicated that TTA supplementation is harmful in any way

Ok man. Here is the thing. You mean well, but are you seriously considering putting an 80+ year old woman on a chemical you know nothing about?

She isnt trying to get ripped. There is no magic here.

If she is 80 years old there are going to be a lot of things going on. One big issue is that most people in her position get treated with MULTIPLE drugs. Do you know everything she takes?

The other issue is that as we age, starting in some people as early as their 40s, we start losing muscle. By the time you are in your 80's this muscle loss is happening at an accelerated rate and becomes a real challenge.

Many many many 80 year old women are at least prediabetic and doctors will miss the diagnosis for a lot of reasons, so at least she knows.

Increasing fatty acid uptake in a person who is diabetic and likely not very active, is not a good idea. One of the reasons obese people become diabetic is because we start to lose our metabolic flexibility - the ability to switch between fat and carbs as a fuel source. Fat people tend to burn more fat for energy, because it is in abundance, and this theoretically will keep carbs from burning efficiently, creating a kind of backlog - which creates insulin resistance and elevates blood sugars, etc.

Her heart is likely already burning fats more than carbs for energy, and making that worse without increasing activity, sounds like a bad idea for an old person from a heart health perspective.

If you want to help with her diabetes - go on amazon and buy a $20 set of resistance bands with handles. Start doing exercises with her. Don't treat her like she is a bodybuilder. Do 1-3 exercises 3x per week, 5 sets of 5. Do not push her, just let her adapt until she gets through a week where the lightest band is easy for 5x5 and then move up and do it all over.

Increase her protein to a reasonable level. She doesn't need bodybuilder levels - but a lot of elderly people have trouble even hitting 50 grams of protein a day. 0.6 - 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight is a good goal. No need to go past 1 gram.

Get her to eat real foods. Lean meats and veggies. Reduce sugars - this will be hard since elderly people have an altered taste sense and will gravitate toward sweet foods.

But, if she is 80 and hasn't adopted a healthy lifestyle yet, don't expect her to now.

 

[Nac]

none of the human trials have indicated that TTA supplementation is harmful in any way

Synapsin has claimed a few times that TTA shouldnt be used by someone with a "heart condition"; Im not sure exactly what he was basing this on but I trusted him. He may clarify if he gets this notification.

 

[mbonheur]

I do have the impression that it is somewhat beneficial. If you are in EU, you can get 100g for about 15€, and its taste is pretty neutral. So you can always try it out and decide for yourself

 

[HIT4ME]

Synapsin has claimed a few times that TTA shouldnt be used by someone with a "heart condition"; Im not sure exactly what he was basing this on but I trusted him. He may clarify if he gets this notification.

I trust him too - and I would assume, as I said above, it is because increased use of lipids as a substrate for energy is a factor/cause of heart disease. I am basing this entirely on theory; but it would be interesting if he has any hard evidence in addition too this. The theory is enough for me though - it's not just made up. It is pretty well accepted that increased lipid metabolism in cardiac tissue is detrimental.

 

[u_e_s_i]

Ok man. Here is the thing. You mean well, but are you seriously considering putting an 80+ year old woman on a chemical you know nothing about?

She isnt trying to get ripped. There is no magic here.

If she is 80 years old there are going to be a lot of things going on. One big issue is that most people in her position get treated with MULTIPLE drugs. Do you know everything she takes?

The other issue is that as we age, starting in some people as early as their 40s, we start losing muscle. By the time you are in your 80's this muscle loss is happening at an accelerated rate and becomes a real challenge.

Many many many 80 year old women are at least prediabetic and doctors will miss the diagnosis for a lot of reasons, so at least she knows.

Increasing fatty acid uptake in a person who is diabetic and likely not very active, is not a good idea. One of the reasons obese people become diabetic is because we start to lose our metabolic flexibility - the ability to switch between fat and carbs as a fuel source. Fat people tend to burn more fat for energy, because it is in abundance, and this theoretically will keep carbs from burning efficiently, creating a kind of backlog - which creates insulin resistance and elevates blood sugars, etc.

Her heart is likely already burning fats more than carbs for energy, and making that worse without increasing activity, sounds like a bad idea for an old person from a heart health perspective.

If you want to help with her diabetes - go on amazon and buy a $20 set of resistance bands with handles. Start doing exercises with her. Don't treat her like she is a bodybuilder. Do 1-3 exercises 3x per week, 5 sets of 5. Do not push her, just let her adapt until she gets through a week where the lightest band is easy for 5x5 and then move up and do it all over.

Increase her protein to a reasonable level. She doesn't need bodybuilder levels - but a lot of elderly people have trouble even hitting 50 grams of protein a day. 0.6 - 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight is a good goal. No need to go past 1 gram.

Get her to eat real foods. Lean meats and veggies. Reduce sugars - this will be hard since elderly people have an altered taste sense and will gravitate toward sweet foods.

But, if she is 80 and hasn't adopted a healthy lifestyle yet, don't expect her to now.

I don’t know much about it for now and that’s why I’m researching.
I’m very interested in what Synapsin says.
If TTA isn’t safe and suitable then I won’t recommend it.

I’m not treating her as a bodybuilder, but given her age and long-term sedentary habits I get the feeling she’ll be reluctant to start doing bands work, especially given how her joints are. I’m looking at joint supps to help her joints atm but until we see those working she’s unlikely to start doing bands work. I’ve advised my grandpa to start doing a bit of light lifting (not pushing himself too hard) to help offset osteoporosis and retain or even build muscle mass. The difference is that he walks for like two hours a day so isn’t sedentary and doesn’t have joint issues.

I hear what you mean regarding increasing fatty acids but with TTA supplementation we’re looking at an extra 750mg a day.
She understands that losing weight is her best shot at getting rid of her diabetes and so I’m recommending she reduces her fat intake and increases her lean protein intake. So her total fat intake isn’t something I’m worried about.

As for the matter of switching fuel sources some CLA, green tea extract and OL assassinate would help.
CLA + TTA would mean <4g of additional fat a day which she could easily offset by reducing fats from other sources.
Some omega 3s and garlic extract will help her heart.

At her age she’d be more open to taking a few caps a day than to hardcore dietary changes (reducing fats a bit and increasing lean meats won’t be too hard I reckon) and exercise.

 

[u_e_s_i]

Ok man. Here is the thing. You mean well, but are you seriously considering putting an 80+ year old woman on a chemical you know nothing about?

She isnt trying to get ripped. There is no magic here.

If she is 80 years old there are going to be a lot of things going on. One big issue is that most people in her position get treated with MULTIPLE drugs. Do you know everything she takes?

The other issue is that as we age, starting in some people as early as their 40s, we start losing muscle. By the time you are in your 80's this muscle loss is happening at an accelerated rate and becomes a real challenge.

Many many many 80 year old women are at least prediabetic and doctors will miss the diagnosis for a lot of reasons, so at least she knows.

Increasing fatty acid uptake in a person who is diabetic and likely not very active, is not a good idea. One of the reasons obese people become diabetic is because we start to lose our metabolic flexibility - the ability to switch between fat and carbs as a fuel source. Fat people tend to burn more fat for energy, because it is in abundance, and this theoretically will keep carbs from burning efficiently, creating a kind of backlog - which creates insulin resistance and elevates blood sugars, etc.

Her heart is likely already burning fats more than carbs for energy, and making that worse without increasing activity, sounds like a bad idea for an old person from a heart health perspective.

If you want to help with her diabetes - go on amazon and buy a $20 set of resistance bands with handles. Start doing exercises with her. Don't treat her like she is a bodybuilder. Do 1-3 exercises 3x per week, 5 sets of 5. Do not push her, just let her adapt until she gets through a week where the lightest band is easy for 5x5 and then move up and do it all over.

Increase her protein to a reasonable level. She doesn't need bodybuilder levels - but a lot of elderly people have trouble even hitting 50 grams of protein a day. 0.6 - 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight is a good goal. No need to go past 1 gram.

Get her to eat real foods. Lean meats and veggies. Reduce sugars - this will be hard since elderly people have an altered taste sense and will gravitate toward sweet foods.

But, if she is 80 and hasn't adopted a healthy lifestyle yet, don't expect her to now.

I don’t know much about it for now and that’s why I’m researching.
I’m very interested in what Synapsin says.
If TTA isn’t safe and suitable then I won’t recommend it.

I’m not treating her as a bodybuilder, but given her age and long-term sedentary habits I get the feeling she’ll be reluctant to start doing bands work, especially given how her joints are. I’m looking at joint supps to help her joints atm but until we see those working she’s unlikely to start doing bands work. I’ve advised my grandpa to start doing a bit of light lifting (not pushing himself too hard) to help offset osteoporosis and retain or even build muscle mass. The difference is that he walks for like two hours a day so isn’t sedentary and doesn’t have joint issues.

I hear what you mean regarding increasing fatty acids but with TTA supplementation we’re looking at an extra 750mg a day.
She understands that losing weight is her best shot at getting rid of her diabetes and so I’m recommending she reduces her fat intake and increases her lean protein intake. So her total fat intake isn’t something I’m worried about.

As for the matter of switching fuel sources some CLA, green tea extract and OL assassinate would help.
CLA + TTA would mean <4g of additional fat a day which she could easily offset by reducing fats from other sources

At her age she’d be more open to taking a few caps a day than to hardcore dietary changes (reducing fats a bit and increasing lean meats won’t be too hard I reckon) and exercise.

 

[u_e_s_i]

I do have the impression that it is somewhat beneficial. If you are in EU, you can get 100g for about 15€, and its taste is pretty neutral. So you can always try it out and decide for yourself

I have a small bag on the way to try out but I reckon this is one of those things with which you won’t exactly notice much as it works in the background. It’s glucose sparing and so you may be marginally fuller especially when on low carbs but it’s likely to be hard to notice

 

[The Solution]

Dude
She’s 80 years old buying her placebo CLA and TTA is not the fix. Fix her diet
Even in obese subjects CLA was proven insufficient.

You either love throwing money down the drain or want to take everything and anything
user the sun. I am starting to wonder if you are dukethumpers long lost brother.

The lady is not going to be doing any exercise besides a brisk walk at her age and her medical condition. This should be taken care of with her doctors. Even if it made a .000000001 difference if she is overweight and sedentary the problem is what she is eating not what she is supplementing.

 

[HIT4ME]

I don’t know much about it for now and that’s why I’m researching.
I’m very interested in what Synapsin says.
If TTA isn’t safe and suitable then I won’t recommend it.

I’m not treating her as a bodybuilder, but given her age and long-term sedentary habits I get the feeling she’ll be reluctant to start doing bands work, especially given how her joints are. I’m looking at joint supps to help her joints atm but until we see those working she’s unlikely to start doing bands work. I’ve advised my grandpa to start doing a bit of light lifting (not pushing himself too hard) to help offset osteoporosis and retain or even build muscle mass. The difference is that he walks for like two hours a day so isn’t sedentary and doesn’t have joint issues.

I hear what you mean regarding increasing fatty acids but with TTA supplementation we’re looking at an extra 750mg a day.
She understands that losing weight is her best shot at getting rid of her diabetes and so I’m recommending she reduces her fat intake and increases her lean protein intake. So her total fat intake isn’t something I’m worried about.

As for the matter of switching fuel sources some CLA, green tea extract and OL assassinate would help.
CLA + TTA would mean <4g of additional fat a day which she could easily offset by reducing fats from other sources

At her age she’d be more open to taking a few caps a day than to hardcore dietary changes (reducing fats a bit and increasing lean meats won’t be too hard I reckon) and exercise.

I am sorry if I came across to make you feel defensive - not my intent. I know where you are coming from - I have a grandmother in her 90's.

What other drugs does she use?

As far as the fat intake - her being fat actually means her body burns more fat for energy than carbohydrates. Being fat brings up lipids in the blood - and it's available so your body has to deal with it, so it switches from burning carbs for energy to burning more fat in order to get the fat levels down (which are bad for tissues, like cardiac tissue). Since you are burning the same amount of energy whether it comes from fat or carbs, if you get more from fat that means you aren't burning the carbs. This means carbs don't get burned efficiently and they sit in the cells unused. This is a factor in insulin resistance - no matter how much insulin you use, a cell that is already full of carbs that it cannot burn is full and you cannot shuttle more carbohydrate into that full cell.

TTA will also upgregulate fat use for energy. TTA activates PPARa, which is a starvation response. It is counter-intuitive that being fat and starving could lead to the same response, but it's the same response for opposite reasons. Being fat triggers it because you are overloaded with fat and have to get fat levels down - starving triggers more fat use because you have no food so you have to burn fat on your body to survive. Low carb diets, similarly mimick starvation and trigger similar issues.

So it's not a matter of "how much TTA" or how much fat she is eating. She has fat on her body and TTA will increase the burning of that fat even more than it is already increased. If your heart is burning fat for energy, and not burning carbs effectively, this has implications in heart disease. So TTA could make that worse, even on a low fat diet.

A lot of this, admittedly, is theory I've interpreted by reading studies and putting pieces together myself - but I am telling you that upregulating PPARa in a woman who is 80+ years old and diabetic may have unpredictable outcomes.

Does she take other medications? Warfarin or other blood thinners are common in that age group.

My grandmother fought the bands too. That's why I started off light. I made it so easy that she didn't even see it as exercise really....slowly increased until it was a little challenging...then more....until she had the habit and the challenge wasn't a bother.

 

[Jiigzz]

it did not work for me, fasting is way better that this

You're comparing a supplement to a change in dietary habits, of course the latter always wins out. Decreased Calorie intake will always win.

In saying that, SNS made a few runs a little while ago so i stoked up while i had the chance, i found it incredibly useful when used with another fat burner of some kind as i also need stimulation to curb my appetite.

 

[HIT4ME]

Dude
She’s 80 years old buying her placebo CLA and TTA is not the fix. Fix her diet
Even in obese subjects CLA was proven insufficient.

You either love throwing money down the drain or want to take everything and anything
user the sun. I am starting to wonder if you are dukethumpers long lost brother.

The lady is not going to be doing any exercise besides a brisk walk at her age and her medical condition. This should be taken care of with her doctors. Even if it made a .000000001 difference if she is overweight and sedentary the problem is what she is eating not what she is supplementing.

This ^^^^

I really, highly, recommend against the TTA for her. It will have no benefit for diabetes. It will actually make glucose disposal worse, IMO, in a diabetic. What it does is increase the uptake and burning of fat - unless she is burning more energy (exercise) this will = a reduced need for glucose, which will mean more available glucose.

You ARE correct that if there is a positive effect at all, it will be one of those things that is barely noticeable at all in an overweight, diabetic, 80 year old woman. And the last thing you want to do is make someone in their 80's have a lesser appetite.

Stop for a minute and think. If you give her something, and she has a heart attack tomorrow, and there is ANY question at all about if that ingredient/chemical played a role, how will you feel about this? You are trying to help, I know, and that's admirable - but this is a bad idea.

 

[u_e_s_i]

This ^^^^

I really, highly, recommend against the TTA for her. It will have no benefit for diabetes. It will actually make glucose disposal worse, IMO, in a diabetic. What it does is increase the uptake and burning of fat - unless she is burning more energy (exercise) this will = a reduced need for glucose, which will mean more available glucose.

You ARE correct that if there is a positive effect at all, it will be one of those things that is barely noticeable at all in an overweight, diabetic, 80 year old woman. And the last thing you want to do is make someone in their 80's have a lesser appetite.

Stop for a minute and think. If you give her something, and she has a heart attack tomorrow, and there is ANY question at all about if that ingredient/chemical played a role, how will you feel about this? You are trying to help, I know, and that's admirable - but this is a bad idea.

Thanks for your input. I’m here asking for a reason.
In the meantime I’m gonna see if TTA works for me

 

[u_e_s_i]

Dude
She’s 80 years old buying her placebo CLA and TTA is not the fix. Fix her diet
Even in obese subjects CLA was proven insufficient.

You either love throwing money down the drain or want to take everything and anything
user the sun. I am starting to wonder if you are dukethumpers long lost brother.

The lady is not going to be doing any exercise besides a brisk walk at her age and her medical condition. This should be taken care of with her doctors. Even if it made a .000000001 difference if she is overweight and sedentary the problem is what she is eating not what she is supplementing.

The fact that something's insufficient for reversing obesity doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be helpful or make things easier.
If I can make things that bit easier for her or for me for $12 a month then I’ll do it.
I make p for a lot of reasons and making the lives of the people I care for and myself easier is a major one.
In any case it’s not as if she’s skint. She said herself that she’s willing to pay to better her health

 

[The Solution]

The fact that something's insufficient for reversing obesity doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be helpful or make things easier.
If I can make things that bit easier for her or for me for $12 a month then I’ll do it.
I make p for a lot of reasons and making the lives of the people I care for and myself easier is a major one.
In any case it’s not as if she’s skint. She said herself that she’s willing to pay to better her health

So your going to feed someone overweight products that have research and dont prove to be worthy in obese individuals.
You really love spending money on placebo products and not focusing on your diet.
Someone who ages their major downfall is how they eat. Which is exactly whta is the problem here.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17490954
Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) has been shown to be an effective supplement for reducing fat mass in animals, whereas results in humans have been inconsistent.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17903328
Experiments in humans have not been able to show a significant effect on body weight, body composition
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4574006/
Despite studies on CLA supplementation for the purpose of investigating changes in body composition and other benefits, both in animals and in humans, they are very discordant.



You can't supplement a bad diet, but in your case you love to try anything and everything regardless of what anyone tells you.

My grandma is 87 years old and should be dead right now, ever since she has changed her diet she keeps feeling better and improving her wellbeing because she has made major dietary adjustments. She was diagnosed with cancer and is still kicking 5 years later when the doctor told her a few years ago she is lucky to be alive.
She did not drop 30 pounds and get in better shape by taking CLA and TTA.

Again seems like you have your mind made up, but if you want to waste the money on something that wont make a significant difference thats on you bud. I highly doubt the doctors would prescribe an OTC placebo pill to someone who has diabetic issues.

 

[u_e_s_i]

So your going to feed someone overweight products that have research and dont prove to be worthy in obese individuals.
You really love spending money on placebo products and not focusing on your diet.
Someone who ages their major downfall is how they eat. Which is exactly whta is the problem here.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17490954
Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) has been shown to be an effective supplement for reducing fat mass in animals, whereas results in humans have been inconsistent.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17903328
Experiments in humans have not been able to show a significant effect on body weight, body composition
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4574006/
Despite studies on CLA supplementation for the purpose of investigating changes in body composition and other benefits, both in animals and in humans, they are very discordant.



You can't supplement a bad diet, but in your case you love to try anything and everything regardless of what anyone tells you.

My grandma is 87 years old and should be dead right now, ever since she has changed her diet she keeps feeling better and improving her wellbeing because she has made major dietary adjustments. She was diagnosed with cancer and is still kicking 5 years later when the doctor told her a few years ago she is lucky to be alive.
She did not drop 30 pounds and get in better shape by taking CLA and TTA.

Again seems like you have your mind made up, but if you want to waste the money on something that wont make a significant difference thats on you bud. I highly doubt the doctors would prescribe an OTC placebo pill to someone who has diabetic issues.

I don’t understand why you seem to selectively ignore parts of what I say

As I said, I’m advising her on her diet. I’ve advised her to consume more lean protein and veggies and less baked goods and fruit.
The extra stuff is just to make things a bit easier for her.
I’ve never debated that diet comes first alongside least total calorie intake vs total expenditure, I’m just trying to make it a bit easier. As someone who’s never eaten low carb or fasted in her life, reducing carbs (alongside fats) may leave her feeling lethargic, I’m just trying to make it a bit more pleasant for her

I’m aware that the research on CLA is patchy but given the price I’m willing to give it a shot.

 

[The Solution]

I’m aware that the research on CLA is patchy but given the price I’m willing to give it a shot.

 

[tyga tyga]

*facepalm*

Dude, at 80 she needs to make lifestyle changes NOT a supplement. Not to mention I’m sure she’s taking pharmaceuticals at her age (common theme with the elderly) I wouldn’t suggest any supplements

Frequent walking with smarter food choices and she’ll be headed in the right direction.

 

[Synapsin]

Synapsin has claimed a few times that TTA shouldnt be used by someone with a "heart condition"; Im not sure exactly what he was basing this on but I trusted him. He may clarify if he gets this notification.

I trust him too - and I would assume, as I said above, it is because increased use of lipids as a substrate for energy is a factor/cause of heart disease. I am basing this entirely on theory; but it would be interesting if he has any hard evidence in addition too this. The theory is enough for me though - it's not just made up. It is pretty well accepted that increased lipid metabolism in cardiac tissue is detrimental.

Hi guys. TTA to my knowledge when I posted that (and I haven't really followed up since then due to lack of interest) only had one study in healthy humans for safety, and it was only 7 days (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18427285).

On top of what hit4me said (which is correct and part of my reasoning), in animal models it can reduce cardiac efficiency (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022282807008528). This appears to be only relevant for those with a reperfusion injury or a history of ischaemic heart disease (obvious when you consider what TTA does), and in healthy individuals (note: most people don't know if they have any "cardiac issues"), the baroreceptor reflex would kick in. The only long term studies I know that demonstrate TTA isn't dangerous at a 1g dose or so (a common dose) are on diabetics populations (mice and humans). Take it with a grain of salt as always.

 

[HIT4ME]

Hi guys. TTA to my knowledge when I posted that (and I haven't really followed up since then due to lack of interest) only had one study in healthy humans for safety, and it was only 7 days (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18427285).

On top of what hit4me said (which is correct and part of my reasoning), in animal models it can reduce cardiac efficiency (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022282807008528). This appears to be only relevant for those with a reperfusion injury or a history of ischaemic heart disease (obvious when you consider what TTA does), and in healthy individuals (note: most people don't know if they have any "cardiac issues"), the baroreceptor reflex would kick in. The only long term studies I know that demonstrate TTA isn't dangerous at a 1g dose or so (a common dose) are on diabetics populations (mice and humans). Take it with a grain of salt as always.

Lol, you remind me of something I read where someone quoted a cardiologist saying that the first time a cardiologist hears that a patient may be having problems is after the patient has died.

Pistol Pete Maravich played an entire NBA career with a pretty severe cardiac abnormality and then died playing a pick up game. He hadn't played on years, met some friends to play and he said to one of the guys, "This is fun. I need to start doing this again."

The friend said, "Yeah? How do you feel"

Pistol Pete replied, "I feel great. I just feel great!"

The guy said he turned around as he said that and looked as Pete fell flat on his face.

 

[u_e_s_i]

*facepalm*

Dude, at 80 she needs to make lifestyle changes NOT a supplement. Not to mention I’m sure she’s taking pharmaceuticals at her age (common theme with the elderly) I wouldn’t suggest any supplements

Frequent walking with smarter food choices and she’ll be headed in the right direction.

As I’ve already said, I’m working with her on improving her diet. That’s the first and main thing I’m doing. I’m asking questions about supps to try to help make the journey easier for her. It’s not to allow her to do nothing about her diet.

Also as I’ve already said, her joints aren’t in a good state. Walking is painful for her and she can only walk very slowly so lots of walking is out of the question until her joints get better.

I get what you mean about the meds she’s taking and I’ll find out exactly what she’s taking and research what they interact with.
But I bet there are some good joint supps that she can take which would make her joints better. Along the same lines, I’m sure there are other things which she can safely take to make things a little bit better. If it’s just omega 3s and grean tea extract, so be it.

 

[The Solution]

As I’ve already said, I’m working with her on improving her diet. That’s the first and main thing I’m doing. I’m asking questions about supps to try to help make the journey easier for her. It’s not to allow her to do nothing about her diet.

Also as I’ve already said, her joints aren’t in a good state. Walking is painful for her and she can only walk very slowly so lots of walking is out of the question until her joints get better.

I get what you mean about the meds she’s taking and I’ll find out exactly what she’s taking and research what they interact with.
But I bet there are some good joint supps that she can take which would make her joints better. Along the same lines, I’m sure there are other things which she can safely take to make things a little bit better. If it’s just omega 3s and grean tea extract, so be it.

Green Tea Extracts effects on joints are about as potent as they are for fatloss........Next to nothing.

At 80 years old you aren't going to find an OTC joint product that is going to work miracles on the ederly.
Again you spend way too much money and time trying to invest in pills that you think are going to turn the world around when the biggest issue here is her diet.

It doesn't matter how much money you want to spend on supplements the total impact it will make on changing her dietary habits, diabetes, and joint pain are going to be minimal. You need to take a step back from the pills man.
Your post history is a total red flag on how much you overthink such small aspects that dont make enough impact on the big picture.

 

[thebigt]

As I’ve already said, I’m working with her on improving her diet. That’s the first and main thing I’m doing. I’m asking questions about supps to try to help make the journey easier for her. It’s not to allow her to do nothing about her diet.

Also as I’ve already said, her joints aren’t in a good state. Walking is painful for her and she can only walk very slowly so lots of walking is out of the question until her joints get better.

I get what you mean about the meds she’s taking and I’ll find out exactly what she’s taking and research what they interact with.
But I bet there are some good joint supps that she can take which would make her joints better. Along the same lines, I’m sure there are other things which she can safely take to make things a little bit better. If it’s just omega 3s and grean tea extract, so be it.

look at joint mechanic w/Mireva

 

[HIT4ME]

As I’ve already said, I’m working with her on improving her diet. That’s the first and main thing I’m doing. I’m asking questions about supps to try to help make the journey easier for her. It’s not to allow her to do nothing about her diet.

Also as I’ve already said, her joints aren’t in a good state. Walking is painful for her and she can only walk very slowly so lots of walking is out of the question until her joints get better.

I get what you mean about the meds she’s taking and I’ll find out exactly what she’s taking and research what they interact with.
But I bet there are some good joint supps that she can take which would make her joints better. Along the same lines, I’m sure there are other things which she can safely take to make things a little bit better. If it’s just omega 3s and grean tea extract, so be it.

You seem to really care about this person and want to help. That is a good thing. My grandmother is 92 and hasn't been able to stand from a chair in about 5 years unless someone helps her. When she started losing her ability to stand and walk, and I saw my dad limping around on bad knees in his 60's and then realized I was 5'8'x and 300+ in my 30's, it clicked. There is a path. And it is even more brutal than just dying. It is full of pain and inability and loss of self respect.

Making changes in my 30's has been a hard road. I have a lot of failures. I have had to fight for every inch and everytime I let up, I lost so much if the ground I had taken. Someone who is 80, with diabetes, joint pain, etc. Is going to have a really, really hard time turning that ship around.

I say this not so that you give up hope and stop helping. But you need to have perspective here. While you are trying to make things easier with supplements, you aren't being honest with yourself about how hard it will be - there is nothing that really makes it easy. And you need to be honest with you so you can be honest and understanding with her.

So, if there is a supplement out there that will help an 80 year old, be appropriate, and not be a risk of harming her, and really make things easier, then most of us on here don't know it and we are all kind of into supplements. Doesn't mean it isn't out there - but it probably means that you aren't going to find it in a capsule with a label on it. You are going to have to dig deep and find something that none of us know about that is likely not commercially available, and you will have to source/make yourself.

And of course...you would have to test it to make sure it actually was what you thought, which will cost thousands of dollars.

Plus, if you do find such an ingredient, since so few know about it, safety and interactions,etc. Will likely have not been studied, so you are back to square 1.

And if you are sourcing it and don't know what it us, it could be dangerous and safety is a bigger problem.

Add in all the studies showing that a huge number of supplements contain illegal DRUGS and ingredients that aren't disclosed on the label = more risk.

You are simply wasting a lot of time on things that at best make a 5% difference (being kind) and at worst will kill her, put her in the hospital, etc.

I understand the desire to help....I spend a ton if time researching to help people... but if you have heard of it or it is already available, it probably isn't going to be appropriate - especially without knowing every drug she takes already.

 

[u_e_s_i]

You seem to really care about this person and want to help. That is a good thing. My grandmother is 92 and hasn't been able to stand from a chair in about 5 years unless someone helps her. When she started losing her ability to stand and walk, and I saw my dad limping around on bad knees in his 60's and then realized I was 5'8'x and 300+ in my 30's, it clicked. There is a path. And it is even more brutal than just dying. It is full of pain and inability and loss of self respect.

Making changes in my 30's has been a hard road. I have a lot of failures. I have had to fight for every inch and everytime I let up, I lost so much if the ground I had taken. Someone who is 80, with diabetes, joint pain, etc. Is going to have a really, really hard time turning that ship around.

I say this not so that you give up hope and stop helping. But you need to have perspective here. While you are trying to make things easier with supplements, you aren't being honest with yourself about how hard it will be - there is nothing that really makes it easy. And you need to be honest with you so you can be honest and understanding with her.

So, if there is a supplement out there that will help an 80 year old, be appropriate, and not be a risk of harming her, and really make things easier, then most of us on here don't know it and we are all kind of into supplements. Doesn't mean it isn't out there - but it probably means that you aren't going to find it in a capsule with a label on it. You are going to have to dig deep and find something that none of us know about that is likely not commercially available, and you will have to source/make yourself.

And of course...you would have to test it to make sure it actually was what you thought, which will cost thousands of dollars.

Plus, if you do find such an ingredient, since so few know about it, safety and interactions,etc. Will likely have not been studied, so you are back to square 1.

And if you are sourcing it and don't know what it us, it could be dangerous and safety is a bigger problem.

Add in all the studies showing that a huge number of supplements contain illegal DRUGS and ingredients that aren't disclosed on the label = more risk.

You are simply wasting a lot of time on things that at best make a 5% difference (being kind) and at worst will kill her, put her in the hospital, etc.

I understand the desire to help....I spend a ton if time researching to help people... but if you have heard of it or it is already available, it probably isn't going to be appropriate - especially without knowing every drug she takes already.

Respect for making the change man.

One of the reasons why I’m looking for stuff that’ll make things easier for her is because I appreciate how hard making such a change is. There are tens of millions of 20, 30 and 40 something years old out there who’ve been trying to lose a significant amount of weight for years but who haven’t managed to. Compared to an 80 year old they’re younger, their metabolisms are faster, they can do considerably more exercise, their ways and habits are less ingrained and they have better access to knowledge and expertise, and yet they still struggle to shed the fat. The fact that my grandma also had part of her lungs removed to rid her of my cancer doesn’t help.
I understand that completely changing her diet and sticking with it will be tough for my grandma and so I want some things to compensate (or least somewhat) for her lapses.
I appreciate that it’ll be hard for her and at the end of the day, my words can only do so much. I can’t and wouldn’t force her. She’ll have to knuckle down. What I can do, is offer her a few advantages and I’ll do what I can.

The thing with the vast majority of doctors, is that whilst they’re knowledgeable about how to treat problems with pharmaceuticals, they’ve never learnt or read much about supplements and wouldn’t be able to recommend anything more illusive than vitamins and minerals.
Additionally, in countries like the one where my grandparents live, China, it’s know that pharmaceutical companies give doctors commission for prescribing their drugs as so doctors are reluctant to do anything but, especially is it may solve the person’s problems for good.
Theres a metaphor for how the pharmaceutical industry works. If there’s a man who’s starving and who can’t feed himself, you can make some money by teaching him to farm and fish, thus solving his problem. However, you can make more money buy selling him food indefinitely.
On this forum, I’ve seen people say that this or that supplement helped to solve their chronic pain or treat their chronic injuries. Such things should transfer well for use by older people in most cases.

I appreciate your kind words, concern and knowledge and I assure you I will be very careful. With this, I’m not willing to take evident risks and fortunately things like glucosamine, chondroitin, curcumin and cysteine are very unlikely to have adverse effects, but nonetheless I’ll go through all of her medications’ lists of interactions

 

[HIT4ME]

Respect for making the change man.

One of the reasons why I’m looking for stuff that’ll make things easier for her is because I appreciate how hard making such a change is. There are tens of millions of 20, 30 and 40 something years old out there who’ve been trying to lose a significant amount of weight for years but who haven’t managed to. Compared to an 80 year old they’re younger, their metabolisms are faster, they can do considerably more exercise, their ways and habits are less ingrained and they have better access to knowledge and expertise, and yet they still struggle to shed the fat. The fact that my grandma also had part of her lungs removed to rid her of my cancer doesn’t help.
I understand that completely changing her diet and sticking with it will be tough for my grandma and so I want some things to compensate (or least somewhat) for her lapses.
I appreciate that it’ll be hard for her and at the end of the day, my words can only do so much. I can’t and wouldn’t force her. She’ll have to knuckle down. What I can do, is offer her a few advantages and I’ll do what I can.

The thing with the vast majority of doctors, is that whilst they’re knowledgeable about how to treat problems with pharmaceuticals, they’ve never learnt or read much about supplements and wouldn’t be able to recommend anything more illusive than vitamins and minerals.
Additionally, in countries like the one where my grandparents live, China, it’s know that pharmaceutical companies give doctors commission for prescribing their drugs as so doctors are reluctant to do anything but, especially is it may solve the person’s problems for good.
Theres a metaphor for how the pharmaceutical industry works. If there’s a man who’s starving and who can’t feed himself, you can make some money by teaching him to farm and fish, thus solving his problem. However, you can make more money buy selling him food indefinitely.
On this forum, I’ve seen people say that this or that supplement helped to solve their chronic pain or treat their chronic injuries. Such things should transfer well for use by older people in most cases.

I appreciate your kind words, concern and knowledge and I assure you I will be very careful. With this, I’m not willing to take evident risks and fortunately things like glucosamine, chondroitin, curcumin and cysteine are very unlikely to have adverse effects, but nonetheless I’ll go through all of her medications’ lists of interactions

I get where you are coming from, but focusing on nutrition isn't just, "You have to eat plain chicken and broccoli and egg whites and nothing else or you are unhealthy." Focusing on nutrition means finding some kind of pattern she LIKES maintaining.

And she isn't trying to perform at a high level - just perform.

Fun fact - a lot of the supplements you just mentioned as "unlikely to do harm" could be highly detrimental and kill many 80 year olds.

For instance, if your grandmother is like mine and many other people her age, and takes Warfarin, then glucosamine, chondroitin and curcumin are all out of the question and could lead to serious complications.

 

[MAZDAMX5LOVER]

guys i love TTA... last summer i use this and it was very good !i did not find sns tta 500 ,and i was ordered BULK tta.. this **** works .WATCH OUT !for me tta didnt help me to lose fat but ,when i was started to eat some junk food (on my vacations) ,TTA kept me much more leaner than other time.so i believe that TTA is very good for lean bulk diets

 

[u_e_s_i]

I get where you are coming from, but focusing on nutrition isn't just, "You have to eat plain chicken and broccoli and egg whites and nothing else or you are unhealthy." Focusing on nutrition means finding some kind of pattern she LIKES maintaining.

And she isn't trying to perform at a high level - just perform.

Fun fact - a lot of the supplements you just mentioned as "unlikely to do harm" could be highly detrimental and kill many 80 year olds.

For instance, if your grandmother is like mine and many other people her age, and takes Warfarin, then glucosamine, chondroitin and curcumin are all out of the question and could lead to serious complications.

I get where you are coming from, but focusing on nutrition isn't just, "You have to eat plain chicken and broccoli and egg whites and nothing else or you are unhealthy." Focusing on nutrition means finding some kind of pattern she LIKES maintaining.

And she isn't trying to perform at a high level - just perform.

Fun fact - a lot of the supplements you just mentioned as "unlikely to do harm" could be highly detrimental and kill many 80 year olds.

For instance, if your grandmother is like mine and many other people her age, and takes Warfarin, then glucosamine, chondroitin and curcumin are all out of the question and could lead to serious complications.

I know, I’ll work with her on creating a diet that she enjoys and can stick with.

That’s very interesting. Thank you.
Can you think of anything that someone on Warfarin potentially could take for joint health? I’ll research them further

I’d like to explore the possibility of shifting her from Warfarin onto natural blood thinners like garlic extract, turmeric, ginger and ginkgo biloba with her doctor. All the while monitoring her blood

 

[u_e_s_i]

guys i love TTA... last summer i use this and it was very good !i did not find sns tta 500 ,and i was ordered BULK tta.. this **** works .WATCH OUT !for me tta didnt help me to lose fat but ,when i was started to eat some junk food (on my vacations) ,TTA kept me much more leaner than other time.so i believe that TTA is very good for lean bulk diets

Given how the stuff works I feel that TTA should primarily be for helping people recomp and help spare muscle whilst cutting

 

[HIT4ME]

I know, I’ll work with her on creating a diet that she enjoys and can stick with.

That’s very interesting. Thank you.
Can you think of anything that someone on Warfarin potentially could take for joint health? I’ll research them further

I’d like to explore the possibility of shifting her from Warfarin onto natural blood thinners like garlic extract, turmeric, ginger and ginkgo biloba with her doctor. All the while monitoring her blood

Don't try to shift her to natural blood thinners. I dont blame you for the passing thought, I've had similar thoughts but ultimately warfarin is tried and true and reliable - and natural compounds are not. Something like curcumin can have genetic variations from plant to plant t and even if you get a standardized extract, unless it is 100% standardized to 1 chemical, the non standardized chemicals can vary from batch to batch. It's a bit of Russian roulette when you have a reliable drug in a life and death situation.

Vitamin D is highly over looked in pain and health. I would get her levels tested and likely put her on at least 2000 iu a day unless she is low, at which point I would go higher.

Fish oil can also have some impact on pain and inflammation, but it does thin blood and you need to get the doctors OK and have the dr. monitor the situation. There are some studies showing the blood thinning effect isn't a problem under 4 grams, but it is far from certain. I would get something with a high concentration of EPA and DHA and stick to 2 grams. Bronson Triple Strength is what I use.

Joint Force of Evomuse Injure Eeze can be a good topical that has a strong impact on pain, both my dad and grandmother swore by it for a long time.

Also, just in case the idea crosses your mind, cannabis and warfarin = bad idea. Like, potential hospitalization with blood transfusions (which may kill an 80 year old) bad.

Be careful, make sure the doctor knows everything and is OK. Keep away from opioids as much as possible.

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Synapsin has claimed a few times that TTA shouldnt be used by someone with a "heart condition"; Im not sure exactly what he was basing this on but I trusted him. He may clarify if he gets this notification.

I think it has to do with electrolytes depletion. I remember I supplemented with electrolytes during TTA usage. Results? What to expect with a bad diet back then?

OPs thread reminds me that I have got half a bag somewhere in the house, so if I find it I will run it next Easter with a sensible diet this time.

 

[sns8778]

Synapsin has claimed a few times that TTA shouldnt be used by someone with a "heart condition"; Im not sure exactly what he was basing this on but I trusted him. He may clarify if he gets this notification.

I see that Synapsin replied later in the thread. Also, something I would mention on TTA with someone with a heart condition would be to keep in mind that sometimes people hold some fluid on TTA so that could be a factor if someone has a heart problem that requires them to be on a diuretic for example.

You're comparing a supplement to a change in dietary habits, of course the latter always wins out. Decreased Calorie intake will always win.

In saying that, SNS made a few runs a little while ago so i stoked up while i had the chance, i found it incredibly useful when used with another fat burner of some kind as i also need stimulation to curb my appetite.

I thought the same thing when I read that. Supplements are just that, supplements; the better your diet, the better they are going to usually work for you.

 

[sns8778]

I wanted to add a few random things from reading through the thread:

Someone mentioned joint products for the elderly, look into SNS Joint Support XT because it contains multiple clinically studied ingredients, some of which are shown to be effective in as little as 4 to 7 days. Keep in mind, at advanced age, nothing is a miracle product but any improvement is usually very beneficial and appreciated.

TTA is a great fat loss ingredient in my opinion and also great for recomp cycles. I saw that someone commented that it didn't work for them and as with most everything, the better your diet, the better TTA is going to usually work for you. And also, a big thing with TTA that some people don't think about is that when you're on TTA some people can hold some slight fluid retention so the amount of fat loss may not be as noticeable until coming off the TTA for a few days. I remember the first time I ever used it I didn't realize nearly how well it worked until about 3 days after I stopped it and once the water dried out I was like wow.

Another important note for people looking for TTA - TTA is a very hard raw material to get and especially at a reasonable price. That is why we stay out of stock on it so much is because it just flat out isn't available a lot of the time so be careful when buying it; make sure its from a vendor you trust that is truly testing the quality of their raw materials. We've turned down several raw material suppliers this year that said they had it available because upon testing, the purity wasn't high enough for us.

 

[HIT4ME]

Just be careful, strictly speaking, warfarin and boswellia don't mix well. It may be worth a test, but monitor it and I would suggest taking INRs twice a week for a bit after starting.

 

[TommyTuffGuy]

Did Controlled Labs have a TTA product? I lost a ton of weight on TTA (with cardio/diet) but was cramping so hard I couldn't walk one day at work.

 

[MAZDAMX5LOVER]

tta is very useful i think... and ihavent any problem with cramps at 1 g per day.off course i use some elevtrolytes always

 

[u_e_s_i]

Just be careful, strictly speaking, warfarin and boswellia don't mix well. It may be worth a test, but monitor it and I would suggest taking INRs twice a week for a bit after starting.

INRs?

 

[HIT4ME]

INRs?

International Normalized Ratio. While on warfarin, the dose has to be adjusted regularly. She may have a machine to do it herself, or the doctor may be doing it. The INR is a measure of how long it takes the blood to clot.

There will be a range the doctor wishes to maintain...say 2-4...and if the reading is 3.8 the doctor may reduce the coumadin and if it is 2.4 they may raise it, etc. The trick is to stay in that stabilized range.

This does not directly carry over to other blood thinners, however, so it isn't like you can take an INR while using a different blood thinner and always rely on the same range. I am not 100% certain of this, but it can be a little risky. Add in CYP450 interactions, etc. And taking something with coumadin could lead to a sudden elevation or drop in coumadin levels. This is why it would be difficult to just say, I am going to take a natural blood thinner and measure INRs. Things can change.

Boswellia is an anti-inflammatory with blood thinning potential which could make coumadin more effective, which could cause excessive bleeding and thus death. It is a little risky, but if you add it in, increase the monitoring of the INRs.

 

[u_e_s_i]

Did TTA supplementation affect sleep for any of you guys?

 

[sns8778]

Did TTA supplementation affect sleep for any of you guys?

It never affected mine personally and I don't recall us ever getting any feedback on it doing so.

I know a big thing with TTA supplements right now is the scarcity of raw materials so if you are taking one that does, you may want to be a bit skeptical of it. I say this mainly because we have been out of TTA for 6+ months now because of raw material unavailability and during that time we've tested out several batches of raw materials that didn't meet our standards.